Gen 2 cams into a Gen 3 - who’s done it?

Gen3lover

Gen3lover

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I’m thinking about replacing the stock cams on my 2022 with Gen 2 cams which appears to add a pretty decent increase to HP and torque.
I’m hearing that the Brock’s super stock cams are essentially Gen 2 cams but with an inflated price so going with OEM Gen 2 cams is best. Thoughts on this?

Of course the bike would need a tune to make it “happy”. I’d have the work done at my local dealership. Fortunately they are about 10 miles from me.

Who’s done this?
Was it worth it?
 
Gen3lover said:
I’m thinking about replacing the stock cams on my 2022 with Gen 2 cams which appears to add a pretty decent increase to HP and torque.
I’m hearing that the Brock’s super stock cams are essentially Gen 2 cams but with an inflated price so going with OEM Gen 2 cams is best. Thoughts on this?

Of course the bike would need a tune to make it “happy”. I’d have the work done at my local dealership. Fortunately they are about 10 miles from me.

Who’s done this?
Was it worth it?
Click to expand...
Gen2 or Yoshi cams will give you HP/Torque at top end rpm range but you will lose some at mid. For example even at track I like more that "stock" mid range hp and torque compared to gen2 flashed busa. Might be worth if you are drag racing else a lot of investment for what?
 
The one I rode had a “derestriction package”
Full system, short stacks, filter, Gen-2 cams, dyno mapped.
He also had a SSB that he’s trying to make switchable ( too technical for me!)

It’s sort of similar to an XDA Super Stock set up I think.

There was no noticeable or significant loss of midrange, but it had a much stronger and extended top end. I have a healthy mapped Gen-2 with just a filter and cans and a stock Gen-3, the modded Gen-3 felt as strong everywhere and more at the top end.

It was the package I was about to do until I bought a new dirtbike with the funds.

I’m certainly still wanting Gen-2 cams for my 3.


Brocks cams are 100% Gen-2. They are sold as being XDA compliant. XDA rules strictly say the only other cams allowed in the Gen-3 racers are factory Gen-2. Brock checks the timing, labels and certifies them as XDA approved spec.
 
Tony Nitrous said:
The one I rode had a “derestriction package”
Full system, short stacks, filter, Gen-2 cams, dyno mapped.
He also had a SSB that he’s trying to make switchable ( too technical for me!)

It’s sort of similar to an XDA Super Stock set up I think.

There was no noticeable or significant loss of midrange, but it had a much stronger and extended top end. I have a healthy mapped Gen-2 with just a filter and cans and a stock Gen-3, the modded Gen-3 felt as strong everywhere and more at the top end.

It was the package I was about to do until I bought a new dirtbike with the funds.

I’m certainly still wanting Gen-2 cams for my 3.


Brocks cams are 100% Gen-2. They are sold as being XDA compliant. XDA rules strictly say the only other cams allowed in the Gen-3 racers are factory Gen-2. Brock checks the timing, labels and certifies them as XDA approved spec.
Click to expand...
It makes sense the modded Gen 3 fest as strong as the Gen 2, they are very similar...the edge would go to the Gen 3 with the electronic suite which enables the power to get to where in needs to be....

If I was in the market for a new bike, a Gen 3 would be in my sights....
 
Why would you want to do that blindly?

Both Moore and RC’s have achieved up to 218hp on a Gen 3, with Yosh R-11 cams, full titanium exhaust, velocity stacks, flash, moving rev line higher.

There is a bit more to this, with cats removed, the point of combustion changes, timing needs to be advanced and valve lead/lag changed with cams accordingly.

Added to indurance testing, I would assume Yoshi Japan did combustion pressure measurements (which would use tools like AVL pressure transducers) or direct EGT probes during cam profiling for the Gen3 R11 cams. No one here in NA has the ability to do this.
 
Sl@Sh said:
Gen2 or Yoshi cams will give you HP/Torque at top end rpm range but you will lose some at mid. For example even at track I like more that "stock" mid range hp and torque compared to gen2 flashed busa. Might be worth if you are drag racing else a lot of investment for what?
Click to expand...
I’m not drag racing. Just want to add power to the low and mid range where I spend 90% of my time.
I already have a full exhaust, high flow air filter and a Moore Mafia tune ( which would have to be redone if cams go in).

I’m not completely sold on the Gen 2 cam idea yet.
I keep seeing videos that show a 10-15 HP increase on the dyno so that has my attention.
 
Gen3lover said:
If that’s the case then it’s not so attractive.
I can’t afford $12K for a turbo or $6-7K+ for a bore and stroke setup.
Drop in cams seem to be a cheaper alternative.
Click to expand...
Lots of videos on the subject.....there are a few that tout making over 200 rwhp.......on MR12 fuel......they leave that out so people go in the videos which earns them money....

I suppose the entire point is what is your plan for the bike, the Hayabusa is already so far behind liter bikes that it will never catch up, most of them can achieve 200 rwhp with simple mods and they are already 100lbs lighter.....

It would be a never ending financial sinkhole to try to achieve street dominance as there is always someone faster out there...

Just my $0.02
 
Gen3lover said:
I’m not drag racing. Just want to add power to the low and mid range where I spend 90% of my time.
I already have a full exhaust, high flow air filter and a Moore Mafia tune ( which would have to be redone if cams go in).

I’m not completely sold on the Gen 2 cam idea yet.
I keep seeing videos that show a 10-15 HP increase on the dyno so that has my attention.
Click to expand...
you have your answer right there. gen 2 cams increase top end power. you want low to mid range power. then it’s not a mod for you.
 
Gen3lover said:
I’m just on the endless quest for ever increasing power.
Problem is I have a big imagination but a limited budget.
Click to expand...
Cams will just move the power to another (higher) rev range, not increase it overall....same as the velocity stacks...

The pipe, filter and tune will make the difference....both will make the engine breathe better and the pipe will eliminate a bit of weight which equates to freeing up hp....

Dyno numbers are just a baseline that a bike can be tuned from...especially the AFR....

The only way to make real power is a big bore or turbo kit....
 
Flows said:
Why would removing cats delay the peak combustion pressure with better scavenging, less charge dilution and resulting faster flame front? Or am I missing something?
Click to expand...
With free flow, you are reducing exhaust back pressure, which means with proper ECU A/F changes (richer), you have more fuel/air to burn. In turn the timing can be advanced before knock. If you add ST-1 cams with that, you increase overlap, which increases volumetric efficiency, tolerating further timing advance at mid to high RPM.

Unfortunately the Hayabusa to my knowledge does not have an anti-knock sensor, so I am not sure how tuners here go about determining the optimum. In the automotive world, to do things perfectly for ECU programming, plus cam design, some use pressure transducers and a development adjustable cam device to determine optimum efficiency and power during R&D, throughout the entire power range. Most including Yoshi, will not share that information.

For example, my Tundra 5.7L V8 has anti knock sensors with feedback to the ECU and automatic advance/retard. The effect of that is if I gas up with 93 instead of 87, I get almost 3 miles a gallon better consumption, as the ECU adjusts. Unfortunately, the price difference between regular and premium means it is still cheaper to use regular. However, efficiency and performance changes for the better with higher octane, as the ECU responds with timing advance.
 
Gen3lover said:
Neither of which I can afford.
Oh well, I appreciate the advice.
Click to expand...
You still have a very desirable, fast motorcycle any way you look at it.....

It would be tiresome trying to stay ahead of the performance curve.....anything that can be done to our Hayabusas can be done to any liter bike making our bikes struggle to keep up......

I'd still rather ride my Hayabusa over a liter bike any day......
 
Gen3lover said:
Neither of which I can afford.
Oh well, I appreciate the advice.
Click to expand...
Enjoy,,at least you know it is there.
Unless you are doing something off the street, it is hard to use the Busa’s full stock power. The mods give you bragging rights though.
IMG_0848.jpeg
 
jellyrug said:
With free flow, you are reducing exhaust back pressure, which means with proper ECU A/F changes (richer), you have more fuel/air to burn. In turn the timing can be advanced before knock. If you add ST-1 cams with that, you increase overlap, which increases volumetric efficiency, tolerating further timing advance at mid to high RPM.

Unfortunately the Hayabusa to my knowledge does not have an anti-knock sensor.
Click to expand...
Hmm not 100% sure we have the physics correct here. VE boosts and richer mixtures up to peak EGT usually require timing pull. Rich of peak EGT and you get fuel charge cooling which can allow us to re-add some timing. Take your point on cat removal causing the second O2 to drive the mixture rich though. And yes timing tuning even by ear is really hard on bikes due to the gearbox noise. Some do it with sophisticated filtering and listening apertures though.
 
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