Cat Delete - New Ower

[DDT]

Been on the forum long time; I have a original Gen1 Hayabusa I bought in '99. I did some mods to but nothing extreme.

With the Gen1s a good mod was GOOD exhaust system. I put on a Sato racing syste. Gained power across the band. Actaul noticeable power on dyno. IIRC it was about a 10hp gain up top with no mid range loss. I still have the bike, but is sits mostly and really hasnt been ridden much since mid 2000s.

Now I am old. The sport bikes are just now uncomfortable to ride. I bought a big ADV bike, but they just dont have the speed and handling of sport bikes. It is OK, but then rode my Hayabusa some. I needed that feeling. So I happened to run across a B-king.

I have not gotten into the airbox, but I doubt the Bking has a modified airbox. It will need that. It does have a dominator exhaust system on it, but the cat delete was not done.

How much difference in power is there with and without Cat?

My plan is airbox mode, get rid of servo, ECU flash. Debating if i should do cat delete. If it is one or two hp, not worth it. If getting rid of a cat opens up 10hp it worth it. It does drop some weight.

On a crazy question, has anyone modified a good hayabusa 4into1 header to fit a Bking? I like the looks of the aftermarket exhaust under the seat. I dont like the new style of short mufflers or the "sidewinder" type of exhausts (brocks). They just dont look "finished" to me. But not sure if a 4-1 header put into the undereat exhaust would be any real world power. It might be a little lighter.

 

[sixpack577]

The converter IS worth removing, and aftermarket headers without one is where most of the hp is gained in an exhaust, not the muffler.
I was going to put a full gen2 Busa Akropvic on my B-king(but never did).
Any full length full system with a sliding muffler hanger will fit the B-king, with some exhausts needing a short bracket between the muffler hanger and passenger footpeg, with others not, and a mount fabbed to the B-king passenger peg, like the Busa has(several simple ways to do that).
If you gut the converter, you will loose low rpm power, noticeably.
If you cut out the converter and replace it with straight pipe, it's a good gain, but again, the hp is in the aftermarket headers themselves, bigger tubes and different bends and lengths.
I got my B-king stock except for 2bros slip-ons...awful, I bought the extra long decibel killer inserts.
Then removed the exhaust midpipe, flashed the ecu, and did a ram-air mod with an aftermarket air filter.
I also changed the gearing to a -1/17 tooth front(stock is 18).
The B-king became much more agressive and fun after that.
A full exhaust and dyno-tune would have really woke it up.

 

[max74]

ah, another b king brother.....for your CAT, dump it, cant find the post anymore (maybe erased from the net), but your Cat together with your Pair will extualy make you use more gas. It was verry well explained, and logical....a 2 stroke needs to build compression a 4 stroke needs to flow. You cant just dump your cat, have the dominator to and the cat delete pipe from dominator, but according to them its no problem to cut out the cat and just plug in the o2, but my buddy who owns a bike shop and who is going to flash the bike, told me to leave it untill he gets his hands on it.
Been looking at my airbox to, but thats one part they really messed up with the intake pointing directly towards the engine, so for now i just leave it...it all comes down to tuning/flashing.
Exhaust, know a gen 1 owner who build his own entire system, but he left it 4in 2.....dont have a clue if a Busa exhaust would fit, there not underseat build so you need to figure that part out. And find out if your king is restricted....most are, just pull it to 12k and see if it dips. Mine does, and i see it as a good sign, the owner(s) before me had enough power to deal with for them....me, i want to be able to finaly see my busa buddy getting smaller in the mirror, now i'm just chasing him everytime.

 

[max74]

I also changed the gearing to a -1/17 tooth front(stock is 18).

i would really like to hear more about this, was allready looking into gearing and seen different options.
Can i assume you only put on the 17 tooth and that would probably mean that you dont have to mess with your chain?
Another buddy of mine told me to go 17/46, but having my doubts on that one.
I'm just looking for more torque instead of top speed, thats where i'm gonna base my flash on aswell....going above 200kmph on a b king is just holding on for dear live with no way to hide from the wind. This and the fact that cops these days are litarly gunning for bikers in Holland and Germany (live 10min from the border), rather get a ticket for reclles driving (pulling up to fast) then lose my driverslicense for speeding.

 

[sixpack577]

i would really like to hear more about this, was allready looking into gearing and seen different options.
Can i assume you only put on the 17 tooth and that would probably mean that you dont have to mess with your chain?
Another buddy of mine told me to go 17/46, but having my doubts on that one.
I'm just looking for more torque instead of top speed, thats where i'm gonna base my flash on aswell....going above 200kmph on a b king is just holding on for dear live with no way to hide from the wind. This and the fact that cops these days are litarly gunning for bikers in Holland and Germany (live 10min from the border), rather get a ticket for reclles driving (pulling up to fast) then lose my driverslicense for speeding.

I've owned alot of motorcycles over the years, and they all end up with a -1 front sprocket and/or a +3 rear sprocket.
Including my Gen2 Busa and my B-king.
Either or both fit the stock length chain on the Busa and B-king, and most everything else as well.
The only difference in the -1 vs the +3 is a very small difference in the overall gear ratio, and overall wheelbase.
Old rule of thumb, -1 front = +3 rear.
It's really closer to -1 front = +2.5 rear.
-1 fronts are usually a 3rd to quarter the price of a rear sprocket.
I prefer a +3 rear to shorten the wheelbase(couple mm's, it's not alot, but every little bit helps).
I like wheelies, preferably standups, and have no problem doing them on stock bikes, including the Busa and B-king, but the lower gearing makes them much easier, as the rpm's are only up about 600 above stock, but it puts the start of real power much closer to cruising rpm's.
I personally prefer it, and it has no real feel of losing any top-end.
Of course it has, but unrestricted, the Busa is still capable of high 170's with that lower gearing.
As said, no need for that on the B-king, as the wind gets harsh about 140mph, not dangerous, just not fun.
If you do -1 And +3, the acceleration is awesome, but for me and my wheelies, it made the throttle very twitchy, as the bike is so responsive and quicker to accelerate.
I Highly recommend trying both, as a front sprocket is only about $30.
I bet that you enjoy both too, but end up only using one for every day riding.

 

[max74]

thanks for this great and well done explanation, will fidlle around with these set ups and see whats best for me.

 

[sixpack577]

thanks for this great and well done explanation, will fidlle around with these set ups and see whats best for me.

Yes sir
Good luck with it

 

[DDT]

From the “old days” there were exhaust systems that helped. There were some that were loud. And some just to be loud and cool and actually lost power.

I think I have a line on a full Yoshimura system for a Gen 2 busa. Nice condition and $300 for the entire full system.

Yosh systems IIRC are well done, tested, and make power.

I think with that system I can have a custom shop get the headers into the underseat exhaust. It has the hayabusa muffler, but i want the underseat mufflers.

Here is “as bought”

And with brother..

(And ADV in the background)

 

[max74]

nice one...got the excact same, but mine had the megaphones still one, bought the dominator just for the price.
Lett is know when you figure out if and how you could fit a gen 2 exhaust....would be good info for B-King riders.

Yes sir
Good luck with it

Going for the 17 and see how it reacts, but about your cold air intake....is that the same mod to be found on YT? cause i looked at mine and it seems that you've got the overcome the cables that are now jammed into the frame holes....i was thinking on seeing if i can close up the holes in the bottom and make some new holes in the front....am i overthinking this, and would it affect the flow?

 

[max74]

I've owned alot of motorcycles over the years, and they all end up with a -1 front sprocket and/or a +3 rear sprocket.
Including my Gen2 Busa and my B-king.
Either or both fit the stock length chain on the Busa and B-king, and most everything else as well.
The only difference in the -1 vs the +3 is a very small difference in the overall gear ratio, and overall wheelbase.
Old rule of thumb, -1 front = +3 rear.
It's really closer to -1 front = +2.5 rear.
-1 fronts are usually a 3rd to quarter the price of a rear sprocket.
I prefer a +3 rear to shorten the wheelbase(couple mm's, it's not alot, but every little bit helps).
I like wheelies, preferably standups, and have no problem doing them on stock bikes, including the Busa and B-king, but the lower gearing makes them much easier, as the rpm's are only up about 600 above stock, but it puts the start of real power much closer to cruising rpm's.
I personally prefer it, and it has no real feel of losing any top-end.
Of course it has, but unrestricted, the Busa is still capable of high 170's with that lower gearing.
As said, no need for that on the B-king, as the wind gets harsh about 140mph, not dangerous, just not fun.
If you do -1 And +3, the acceleration is awesome, but for me and my wheelies, it made the throttle very twitchy, as the bike is so responsive and quicker to accelerate.
I Highly recommend trying both, as a front sprocket is only about $30.
I bet that you enjoy both too, but end up only using one for every day riding.

Sixpack, i know you are well versed in bikes/tuning and so on. Swapped my filter for a K&N and still the bike feels slugish at low rpm's, i know i need a flash, but i still have the cat delete pipe from dominator that i wanted to swap before the flash.
When i first installed the dominator baflle free silincers, i noticed a weird smell...firts i thought these silincers where just new and needed some miles. The smell never went away, and i'm starting to think that it comes from the cat/converter...i wouldn't descripe it as rotten eggs, but i cant even think off a name for this smell other then weird.
Dominator states i can just cut the cat out. install the o2/lambda and it should be fine....other posts, vids and info states otherwise.
is there a way to put this cat delete in, trick the o2 with a longer flange that you see floating on the net, or should i just wait untill i can finaly do my flash. By the way, the bike is also verry thirsty, almost thirsty enough to drop it off at a AA meeting.
Any tips, or dont toutch would be more then welcome.
Thanks

 

[Hayabusa Wannabe]

@max74 I made efforts to look back in your other posts for additional helpful information but your profile sharing is set to to private. That may be intentional but know that we are restricted in this way.

 

[sixpack577]

Sixpack, i know you are well versed in bikes/tuning and so on. Swapped my filter for a K&N and still the bike feels slugish at low rpm's, i know i need a flash, but i still have the cat delete pipe from dominator that i wanted to swap before the flash.
When i first installed the dominator baflle free silincers, i noticed a weird smell...firts i thought these silincers where just new and needed some miles. The smell never went away, and i'm starting to think that it comes from the cat/converter...i wouldn't descripe it as rotten eggs, but i cant even think off a name for this smell other then weird.
Dominator states i can just cut the cat out. install the o2/lambda and it should be fine....other posts, vids and info states otherwise.
is there a way to put this cat delete in, trick the o2 with a longer flange that you see floating on the net, or should i just wait untill i can finaly do my flash. By the way, the bike is also verry thirsty, almost thirsty enough to drop it off at a AA meeting.
Any tips, or dont toutch would be more then welcome.
Thanks

The smell is most likely the converter, and I would get rid of it now and not worry about it.
I have ridden Many a bike, including late models, and alot of them have had full exhausts and no tunes.
I have never seen or heard of any damage from this.
Most full length exhausts still run good without a tune, vs full short exhausts, that show more of a need for a tune, and of course a tune is ideal on any bike...even bone stock there's usually a little more to be gained.
As for the flash, I would do that now too, as it also will not harm anything without an air/fuel tune, and you will notice the extra low rpm grunt.
And, since both are harmless, your bike will be ready for Auto-tune or a dyno-tune whenever you are.
If you're Auto-tuning, you will weld in a bung for a Wide-Band O2 sensor(stock is a narrow band), and it's depth in the pipe will be the same as stock.
The O2 bung adapters that place the O2 sensor further back out of the pipe are for cars, ones that need the O2 to read less of the engines emissions, so the Check-Engine light will not come on.
These can be beneficial in something like a Mustang or Camaro, or just a higher mileage engine that doesn't burn as clean as it used to.
You don't need that on a bike engine.
And, if you have the bike dyno-tuned, the stock O2 sensor is going to be turned off in the ecu anyway.
Also, if you have it dyno-tuned, having it tuned by someone who can adjust the air/fuel ratio with Woolrich or Ecu Editor, will eliminate the need for a PowerCommander or any 'piggyback' fuel module.

 

[max74]

damn, that thing is a real bitch to saw off, offcourse the top clamps leading to the ex valve where rusted stuck, but i'm at the point of building things back together. Does look like i have to strip the entire rear section of the exhaust but he....atleast i have something to do in my spare time. Will lett you know how the bike reacts when stuff is back on, thanks Sixpack.

 

[max74]

well it seems my exhaust is allready as loud as it can be, was expecting more noise without the cat, but with the baflle free dominators...no extra sound. Bike did respond better, so thanks Sixpack, was really worried it would run like crap from all the different opinions i read on all these forums. Next step is sending my rear sprocket back....dumb a holes sended me a 43 wich is standard.
And figuring out if i will cut open the exhaust to remove the flap, or figure out what size i need and the degrees of the bend....cause that stuff is going aswell. Did try the trick with unplugging the cables so the flap would stay open, but threw a F1 code the moment the cables where off

 

[sixpack577]

well it seems my exhaust is allready as loud as it can be, was expecting more noise without the cat, but with the baflle free dominators...no extra sound. Bike did respond better, so thanks Sixpack, was really worried it would run like crap from all the different opinions i read on all these forums. Next step is sending my rear sprocket back....dumb a holes sended me a 43 wich is standard.
And figuring out if i will cut open the exhaust to remove the flap, or figure out what size i need and the degrees of the bend....cause that stuff is going aswell. Did try the trick with unplugging the cables so the flap would stay open, but threw a F1 code the moment the cables where off

If you have the ecu flashed as a Busa bin file(as the ecu's are like the engines, 100% physically the same) then the FI light will go out, you will also only have A mode with Ecu Editor, but I am unsure with Woolrich.
I didn't care, I want full power, all the time.
There is an ignition key cycle/sequence of key positions, that sets the ecu to open the exhaust midpipe valve all the way on start up, and it will open it fully every start up, unless you repeat the cycle, or disconnect the battery.
This also only works with the stock B-King ecu bin file, but it isn't present in the Busa bin file, so no FI or issues with that after.
I don't remember the exact key cycle, sorry, and am unsure if any of the old Bking.org info is still available online anywhere.
The disconnected servo cables did not trip the FI light on my B-King, but, I flashed it with Ecu Editor myself, and I could have possibly done that first, as it's been a decade and I cannot remember for sure, so my apologies there.
However, the light is not causing any other issues, and the bike Needs an ecu flash to really wake up at lower rpms, and yes you will notice it.
As for the midpipe valve itself, yes, get rid of it, it all comes out fairly easily, and leaves one small hole from the shaft the valve rotates on, which can be tig welded, or epoxied if need be, and it's in a hard to see location.
The front tire will be lifting at high rpm under hard throttle where it would not before, at least not without making it.
It was suprising to me at how restrictive that valve really was, even with it completely open, as it's spring opens it fully once the cables are removed.
So mine was open, with 2bros cf mufflers(which I hated, but were the only mod it had when I got it, and I got the double sided decibel killers for them, as their drone was awful),
but the flash and ram-air mod need to be done too.
After it all, it was a different bike, and then again with the -1/17t front sprocket.

 

[max74]

yeah, i looked at the airbox and see if i could figure something out but its sure tight down there, so i need to get me some silicone hoses. And yes i truely need the flash, i can get the front wheel up at start up, but at speed i need to play the clutch....wasn't expecting this for a bike with supposely 184hp....but thanks Sixpack, i really appreciate all your effort and info on how to help a brother out. Always nice to find folks like you and others (not to forgett) on forums that take there time and share there knowledge. tanks from a cross the planet.

 

[sixpack577]

yeah, i looked at the airbox and see if i could figure something out but its sure tight down there, so i need to get me some silicone hoses. And yes i truely need the flash, i can get the front wheel up at start up, but at speed i need to play the clutch....wasn't expecting this for a bike with supposely 184hp....but thanks Sixpack, i really appreciate all your effort and info on how to help a brother out. Always nice to find folks like you and others (not to forgett) on forums that take there time and share there knowledge. tanks from a cross the planet.

Yeah man, glad to, we all help each other here.

2.5" diameter silicone hose with a 90° bend.
2 holes on the front side of the airbox, hoses come out of the box and turn 90 through the holes in the frame.
No scoops are needed, just hose flush with the frame, but scoops can be made from pvc plumbing fittings if you wanted them.
They are hidden behind plastic trim regardless.