Cams are Dialed
- Thread starter OB_Jay
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OB_Hayawiz
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Frank Hiya my Friend! Question ??
How much head work have you had done & What are the Valve clearances on intake & Exhaust???? Hayawiz
P.S. Son8uds the the STOMPER is comming of age prettyu well! GL!!
How much head work have you had done & What are the Valve clearances on intake & Exhaust???? Hayawiz
P.S. Son8uds the the STOMPER is comming of age prettyu well! GL!!
Frank Adams
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I'm going to the track tomorrow night if it don't rain. I ordered a rear sprocket but it hasn't came in yet so I'll be stuck running with the stock gearing. I'm think that will put Me some where in the middle of 5th gear? And thats not good!
I'll be useing VP C114 racing fuel But I can run on pump gas cause I still don't have any spark knock.
Hayawiz, My heads been ported with just the stock valves this time. I have a whopping 120 thou clearence. Nitrous works better with more clearence.
[This message has been edited by frank adams (edited 04 July 2000).]
I'll be useing VP C114 racing fuel But I can run on pump gas cause I still don't have any spark knock.
Hayawiz, My heads been ported with just the stock valves this time. I have a whopping 120 thou clearence. Nitrous works better with more clearence.
[This message has been edited by frank adams (edited 04 July 2000).]
Nice one, Frank
This is the first time I have seen anyone put the "bog" problem down to too much valve overlap on the Hayabusa.
When I first discovered this problem, I wondered if valve overlap was to blame, as I had the same problem with my ZX10, which the tuners explained as too much valve overlap.
This would also explain why the "bog" all but disappears on stock cans (more back-pressure).
Does your dial-in affect peak power though??
This is the first time I have seen anyone put the "bog" problem down to too much valve overlap on the Hayabusa.
When I first discovered this problem, I wondered if valve overlap was to blame, as I had the same problem with my ZX10, which the tuners explained as too much valve overlap.
This would also explain why the "bog" all but disappears on stock cans (more back-pressure).
Does your dial-in affect peak power though??
OB_THE MOTORHEAD
Registered
dave those zx10s where a bastardd when it came to jet kits with quick slide lifts combining with the cam overlaps.i use to run ctr lines around 101 or so on some of those.good goin frank now you are on a roll.like i say "give it what it wants not what you think it wants"!by the way frank i can get you the nx system w/ the window switch for a good price.so let me know whan you wanna start sprayin.
OB_NumbNuts
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DaveD
Who dialled in your cams for you?
And at what cost?
Thanks
Nuts
Who dialled in your cams for you?
And at what cost?
Thanks
Nuts
OB_cbxchris
Registered
Well I`ve got to ask...what lobe centers? Frank I know you`re running the larger webs than me but I`d still like to know. I think without looking I set mine at 110 intake and 108 exhaust...slightly lower than they recommended.I always liked lower lobe centers for torque when drag racing in our area due to most of the tracks being 1/8 mile. Thanks!
OB_Dirty Pete
Registered
Good to hear things are really gelling for you Frank. I very much look forward to hearing that you've had a good day at the track.
Got my Yosh stage ones in as of last week, MotorHead's box, PC2, Akrapovic, 16 tooth front, 42 rear...175 clean hp and I'm ready to rock within a week or so at the strip. Here's hoping high 9s for me and low 9s for you.
Got my Yosh stage ones in as of last week, MotorHead's box, PC2, Akrapovic, 16 tooth front, 42 rear...175 clean hp and I'm ready to rock within a week or so at the strip. Here's hoping high 9s for me and low 9s for you.
OB_GSXRTURBO1
Registered
Frank, it'll be interesting to see where the bike now makes power with the LC spread apart so much. I'd also be curious to know what the cranking pressures were before and after the LC was changed. Glad you figured it out.
Just a thought here, but would you want to keep the LC the way they are now when spraying?
Just a thought here, but would you want to keep the LC the way they are now when spraying?
OB_GSXRTURBO1
Registered
Oh, almost forgot. What LC did Web recommend for your cams and did you have them set there first?
Frank Adams
Registered
More added info:
My cams were setup like they were on purpose. The main idea was to make sure this motor was going to live first and then tweak it to where it should be.(R&D)
DaveD, dialing the cams doesn't give you or take away any hp that I know of....
You can adjust where the hp comes in..and goes out at by dialing the lobe centers.
Motorhead, if it doesn't rain tomorrow night I'm going to run Bill's Busa that has your NX system on it at the Dragstrip so I'll see how well it works and I may get back with you?
CbxChris, I'm just running the 395 lift cams in this motor and I hope you are at least running the same?!
I think you have yours now set a little under the recommendation and thats still not enough. If you call around to most of the guys/builders that are useing these cams they'll tell you their setting them up at 106 intake & 108 exh.
I set mine up a little under that because I'm running the full airbox mod with no filter and My throttle bodies are bored out.
The 106 & 108 setups are being done with just the flapper removed from the box.
Oh, and My bikes still pulling hard as hell when it hits red-line.
G-turbo1, I don't have the card here but I think they recommended the cams to be set at 107 & 111?
When I started Gatlin had these cams set at 110 intake & 104 exh!(backwards huh? no low end!)
Since I got power now all the way to red-line I don't see any reason why this combo wont work with the nitrous? I'll change the gearing and the fuel that I'm running and thats about it.
Right now it starts pulling hard at 4,000rpm and when it gets to 7,500 it breaks the tire loose in 1st gear.( I have the new Micky/T and this is on the street)
My bike feels a little fat/rich on the bottom and thats probably why it start spinning at 7,500. If I work with mapping a little it might start spinning it even sooner?! Time will tell.
My cams were setup like they were on purpose. The main idea was to make sure this motor was going to live first and then tweak it to where it should be.(R&D)
DaveD, dialing the cams doesn't give you or take away any hp that I know of....
You can adjust where the hp comes in..and goes out at by dialing the lobe centers.
Motorhead, if it doesn't rain tomorrow night I'm going to run Bill's Busa that has your NX system on it at the Dragstrip so I'll see how well it works and I may get back with you?
CbxChris, I'm just running the 395 lift cams in this motor and I hope you are at least running the same?!
I think you have yours now set a little under the recommendation and thats still not enough. If you call around to most of the guys/builders that are useing these cams they'll tell you their setting them up at 106 intake & 108 exh.
I set mine up a little under that because I'm running the full airbox mod with no filter and My throttle bodies are bored out.
The 106 & 108 setups are being done with just the flapper removed from the box.
Oh, and My bikes still pulling hard as hell when it hits red-line.
G-turbo1, I don't have the card here but I think they recommended the cams to be set at 107 & 111?
When I started Gatlin had these cams set at 110 intake & 104 exh!(backwards huh? no low end!)
Since I got power now all the way to red-line I don't see any reason why this combo wont work with the nitrous? I'll change the gearing and the fuel that I'm running and thats about it.
Right now it starts pulling hard at 4,000rpm and when it gets to 7,500 it breaks the tire loose in 1st gear.( I have the new Micky/T and this is on the street)
My bike feels a little fat/rich on the bottom and thats probably why it start spinning at 7,500. If I work with mapping a little it might start spinning it even sooner?! Time will tell.
OB_cbxchris
Registered
frank i went with the smaller webs because i intend on riding this bike a lot...actually I`ll be suprised if i ever take it to the strip with a stock arm.I`ve got 1mm over valves on both sides. I think your exhaust cam is on my intake side and a smaller cam on exhaust. My card recommended a setting of 112 intake and 109 exhaust...mine seems to run great on street but not enough time on engine yet to really know and I`ve still got that aggravating rev limiter coming in at 10 grand...I`ve got to find out what that is...sensor I hope...just waiting until more time on engine
OB_THE MOTORHEAD
Registered
yes put some miles on it so you can test it i'm knawin at the bit waiting for your results
OB_Busadan
Registered
Great news Frank. Keep up the goodfight and keep us posted.
Numbnuts
My ZX10 cams were dialed in by NCK racing (North Coventry Kawasaki) many years ago '92?? - doubt they are even still going.
What I didn't say in my previous post was that the dialing in didn't really cure the flat spot at 3500 rpm, and wasn't the main reason I had it done. I did it mainly to boost midrange torque, (which it did.). Suprisingly, the flat spot never really bothered me much on the ZX10 - as I used to keep it spinning a fair bit.
I am more fussy about the 'busa, probably because it's torquey nature, and tall first gear encourages low revs.
BTW, I used orient express slotted cam sprockets, and Rob Muzzy timing figures (less overlap than standard) on the ZX10. Best hp I ever saw was 127!
My ZX10 cams were dialed in by NCK racing (North Coventry Kawasaki) many years ago '92?? - doubt they are even still going.
What I didn't say in my previous post was that the dialing in didn't really cure the flat spot at 3500 rpm, and wasn't the main reason I had it done. I did it mainly to boost midrange torque, (which it did.). Suprisingly, the flat spot never really bothered me much on the ZX10 - as I used to keep it spinning a fair bit.
I am more fussy about the 'busa, probably because it's torquey nature, and tall first gear encourages low revs.
BTW, I used orient express slotted cam sprockets, and Rob Muzzy timing figures (less overlap than standard) on the ZX10. Best hp I ever saw was 127!
OB_NumbNuts
Registered
DaveD
Are you going to get your cams sorted on the Busa? Do you think it will cure the bogging problem?
I thought it might be to do with low air velocity and fuel drop out (as explained in this months issue of Bike (or Ride cant remember which!))
Would a PCII cure it without having cams dialed in, ??
I am a complete novice at tuning mods like these and head work, especially on bikes.
thanks
Nuts
Are you going to get your cams sorted on the Busa? Do you think it will cure the bogging problem?
I thought it might be to do with low air velocity and fuel drop out (as explained in this months issue of Bike (or Ride cant remember which!))
Would a PCII cure it without having cams dialed in, ??
I am a complete novice at tuning mods like these and head work, especially on bikes.
thanks
Nuts
Frank Adams
Registered
Just a quick note to let you guys know I found My bogg problem.
(Only the ones that know something about overlap are going to understand this one)
I got this sudden feeling.....that My cams could have too much overlap.
First I contacted Mike Belcher(Dyno-Jet) and he taught Me quite a bit about finessing the pw2 in ways that he tells very few how.
I played around some with what I learned from him but never came up with the sure..cure.
While I was thinking about doing some fuel pressure test I started getting this feeling My problem was in My cams?!
Well, it just so happen that there was everything else going on this past weekend and I couldn't make time to tear into it untill last night.
Saturday I went to Route 66 to talk & see some friends that were racing in the big Prostar event...took a lot of pics & video that I've not had the chance to look at... Met Gary Wardowski(teamflint) seems like a good guy.
Gary has a lot of nice parts but his bike still doesn't look as good as the Psycho Busa.(hahaha...did I say that?)(Gary, see you at IRP)
BTW...Gary had his new built motor along with the turbo. Keep an eye on his Busa cause this motor was built by Brock Davidson...it should and will be and even bigger rocket ship once he gets all the buggs worked out!
That night(sat) I came home and loaded My Busa in the trailer(not yet dialed) and went to Indy for some street riding with 9 other friends. It kinda suc'ed cause I couldn't get involved in any of the street racing that went on later that night.(I could go on about this night but I wont)
Now...back to My cams.
I called some of the Busa big dawgs before the weekend and they agreed with My feeling about My cams not being dialed.
I did a leak down and saw that I had a overlap problem for sure so I opened it up and went to work.
I wont give out any numbers but lets just say that I had to drop My intake 6 degrees!!
and raise My exh 5 degrees!!
No wonder I had a bogg....no compression on the bottom. All My low end hp was just flowing right out My pipe.
NOT ANYMORE!!!
This bike is for real now! I can't wait to get it to the strip. I will damn sure have My hands full.
If everything goes well and I see some numbers that make Me feel good....I'll start turning My attention to putting the Nitrous on?!
(I may ask Brock Davidson for help on that subject??)(btw, he uses a system that I think would work the best for built motors like mine.)
Believe Me....I'm on top of the world now!
It's finally starting to come together!(sitting here with a smile)
(Only the ones that know something about overlap are going to understand this one)
I got this sudden feeling.....that My cams could have too much overlap.
First I contacted Mike Belcher(Dyno-Jet) and he taught Me quite a bit about finessing the pw2 in ways that he tells very few how.
I played around some with what I learned from him but never came up with the sure..cure.
While I was thinking about doing some fuel pressure test I started getting this feeling My problem was in My cams?!
Well, it just so happen that there was everything else going on this past weekend and I couldn't make time to tear into it untill last night.
Saturday I went to Route 66 to talk & see some friends that were racing in the big Prostar event...took a lot of pics & video that I've not had the chance to look at... Met Gary Wardowski(teamflint) seems like a good guy.
Gary has a lot of nice parts but his bike still doesn't look as good as the Psycho Busa.(hahaha...did I say that?)(Gary, see you at IRP)
BTW...Gary had his new built motor along with the turbo. Keep an eye on his Busa cause this motor was built by Brock Davidson...it should and will be and even bigger rocket ship once he gets all the buggs worked out!
That night(sat) I came home and loaded My Busa in the trailer(not yet dialed) and went to Indy for some street riding with 9 other friends. It kinda suc'ed cause I couldn't get involved in any of the street racing that went on later that night.(I could go on about this night but I wont)
Now...back to My cams.
I called some of the Busa big dawgs before the weekend and they agreed with My feeling about My cams not being dialed.
I did a leak down and saw that I had a overlap problem for sure so I opened it up and went to work.
I wont give out any numbers but lets just say that I had to drop My intake 6 degrees!!
and raise My exh 5 degrees!!
No wonder I had a bogg....no compression on the bottom. All My low end hp was just flowing right out My pipe.
NOT ANYMORE!!!
This bike is for real now! I can't wait to get it to the strip. I will damn sure have My hands full.
If everything goes well and I see some numbers that make Me feel good....I'll start turning My attention to putting the Nitrous on?!
(I may ask Brock Davidson for help on that subject??)(btw, he uses a system that I think would work the best for built motors like mine.)
Believe Me....I'm on top of the world now!
It's finally starting to come together!(sitting here with a smile)
G
Guest
The 483/536 Web-Cam (I have the same set in my motor) come with a recommended installation of 106 Intake/108 Exhaust. That is where they are set in my motor and they make good power everywhere.
Nah...I think I'll leave it alone for a while. (heard that one before!..)
Bigabusa kindly altered the yosh settings for me this afternoon. I felt that it was running rich low down (mainly because it smelled "sooty" after a run) [the original settings were done before I realised I had partially blocked fuel filters].
In keeping with most posts on the subject, my settings are NOW 0, +5, +5, and this
seems to work very well (although it's a bit soon to tell - the "bogging" effect seems to depend on weather conditions, as much as anything) - Suffice to say that on the way home, it hardly bogged at all.
Richard, along with other posts seems to favour the PCII, mainly I think because It is more adjustable than the Yosh Box.
Bigabusa kindly altered the yosh settings for me this afternoon. I felt that it was running rich low down (mainly because it smelled "sooty" after a run) [the original settings were done before I realised I had partially blocked fuel filters].
In keeping with most posts on the subject, my settings are NOW 0, +5, +5, and this
seems to work very well (although it's a bit soon to tell - the "bogging" effect seems to depend on weather conditions, as much as anything) - Suffice to say that on the way home, it hardly bogged at all.
Richard, along with other posts seems to favour the PCII, mainly I think because It is more adjustable than the Yosh Box.
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