Armed teachers or armed citizens?

[kneedraggin636]

After watching the evening news, one of our state senators is enacting a bill to arm our school teachers. One claim he makes for the bill is that some of our schools are rural, and if sh*t went down, it might take a while for law enforcement to respond. Some teachers seem to be for it, others are against it. Same goes for the superintenants.

He was my proposal:
If you are going to spend time and money arming and training teachers, why not allow citizens to volunteer for armed patrol at our schools? Average citizens who want to ensure the safety of our children can undergo extensive background checks and psych. evals, weapons qualification, etc., etc. just the same as our cops and volunteer one day a month at a school. They would also have to maintain active training certificates just the same as cops.

My guess is that if the training were provided (at what cost I'm not sure) there would be hundreds of citizens in every town that would be willing to contribute. States complain about budgets, and there is no money to put cops in every school, but dammit, we want our kids to be safe. Well, I think this is a good place to start.

Thoughts?

 

[Busa1166]

What kind of course are they planning on giving???


They can't afford to pay teachers as it is.


They are assuming the teacher is a responsible and good person. How many times has the school system hired pedophiles to teach in schools.

 

[sixpack577]

A volunteer citizen would shoot a deserving bastid before said bastid had a chance to do something terrible.
Then the media, lawyers, and government would have a field day painting the picture of how the volunteer was a murderer with a gun, and how guns have ruined our nation.

But personally, I'm fine with the idea

 

[Twobrothersbusa]

One word. Liability. Any civilian that had any involvement with anything like a shooting would get cooked by some ambulance chasing lawyer. I would say no offense, but there are a few lawyers that give the profession a bad name.

 

[sixpack577]

My wife is a high school teacher, pro gun, and a good shot.
She could and would defend whomever she could.
My concern is that she would be a target, because even with a concealed gun, somehow it would be known who was armed.
This would mean that any armed teacher would not only have 10 things to focus on at once, studies at hand, behavior of class, ect. It's easy to lose focus for a moment during a normal stressful day. All it takes is the wrong one(s) waiting for the right moment to overpower and disarm a teacher. Then what.
Only a select handful of teachers(or people in general) have the ability to focus on several things at once, as well as be ready to respond to anything instantly.
The first time an armed teacher is disarmed and shot and or killed by a student, along with who ever else, the media and government, as well as foolish citizens will be after all of our guns.
I'm for responsible teachers, staff, citizens helping protect our children and each other.
I just don't think there is any one answer to fix things.
Without morals and common sense, the future of our nation is grim.

 

[kneedraggin636]

I think I have to agree with all of you hear. Yes, if something ever did happen, the media would have a field day with it, as well as the ambulance chasers. I myself carry. I was talking to my wife last night and I told her, if we (my family) were ever in a situation where someone was shooting up the restaurant we were in, I would be leaving, not playing cowboy. Hell I probably wouldn't even draw until it was necessary because some shi*t head liberal would probably accuse me of being in on it if they saw my gun, or even worse, if I had to shoot, I would probably get sued by the idiot next to me because they got burned by the hot brass expelled during the shot that saved their life.

A friend of mine once argued with me that the government is stealing our civil liberties. I told him "we" are stealing our own civil liberties.

Thank folks.

 

[pan]

I just don't think there is any one answer to fix things.
Without morals and common sense, the future of our nation is grim.

+1

I'm not even in your nation, but it makes a whole lot of sense from down here...

 

[kneedraggin636]

Yeah, our future is not looking so good here. I have a son who turns 3 tomorrow, and everyday I look at him in all of his innocence and think "what did I do when I brought him into this world?". We can only hope that our children will be the ones to right all of our wrongs and make a better place of this world. Don't laugh, we all have dreams right?

Take care folks.

 

[chrisjp]

I still say arm teachers with the shootable stun guns ( they can shoot 35ft) kill two birds with one stone. these "mass killing" criminals do it for a reason. Fame n they want to die. so psychologically fight them by denying what they want ( of course beef up security and access) . deny them by the "chance" they are hit with stun gun by teacher or admin before they can off themselves. Incapacitate them and then call them a "domestic terrorist" then by NDAA 2012 ( look it up if you don't believe me) the goverment can lock them up indefinitely without lawyer, or trial and torture them for rest of their life to collect information about their "co conspirators"!!! You name me one nut job willing to take that risk and not SERIOUSLY think twice before attempting a mass killing. Oh and get news to report and show the torture, use them bastds to our advantage for once!!

 

[sixpack577]

I still say arm teachers with the shootable stun guns ( they can shoot 35ft) kill two birds with one stone. these "mass killing" criminals do it for a reason. Fame n they want to die. so psychologically fight them by denying what they want ( of course beef up security and access) . deny them by the "chance" they are hit with stun gun by teacher or admin before they can off themselves. Incapacitate them and then call them a "domestic terrorist" then by NDAA 2012 ( look it up if you don't believe me) the goverment can lock them up indefinitely without lawyer, or trial and torture them for rest of their life to collect information about their "co conspirators"!!! You name me one nut job willing to take that risk and not SERIOUSLY think twice before attempting a mass killing. Oh and get news to report and show the torture, use them bastds to our advantage for once!!

Not against anything you say, but torture? In this country?
That would be comprised of going to jail/prison, locked in a cell and fed. No tv, weights, mail, sports, phone, visitation, college, ect., ect.
You want to take away a killers right to modern comfort and convinience! We just have to keep them safe from being harmed by the public, because these poor killers have mental problems, it's not their fault. That's the American way!
...And look where it's gotten us.

 

[m_ridgeway]

Only problem I see here is, eventually if a kid and an armed teacher got into a fight/altercation, teacher used the gun in defense. It would be a nightmare for the, city, district, teacher, parents etc. people tend to not make stellar decision under stress.

Other than that, I see no problem with a legal citizen carrying a concealed gun anywhere. Imho there shouldn't even be a permit. Gun free zones are a joke and the signs are a joke. They mean little to somebody with intention to murder someone.

 

[chrisjp]

Not against anything you say, but torture? In this country?
That would be comprised of going to jail/prison, locked in a cell and fed. No tv, weights, mail, sports, phone, visitation, college, ect., ect.
You want to take away a killers right to modern comfort and convinience! We just have to keep them safe from being harmed by the public, because these poor killers have mental problems, it's not their fault. That's the American way!
...And look where it's gotten us.

no...the torture would be done in Guantanamo bay just like the rest of the terrorists. and yes...im very serious...look up the NDAA 2012. its legal

 

[StromBusa]

I think I have to agree with all of you hear. Yes, if something ever did happen, the media would have a field day with it, as well as the ambulance chasers. I myself carry. I was talking to my wife last night and I told her, if we (my family) were ever in a situation where someone was shooting up the restaurant we were in, I would be leaving, not playing cowboy. Hell I probably wouldn't even draw until it was necessary because some shi*t head liberal would probably accuse me of being in on it if they saw my gun, or even worse, if I had to shoot, I would probably get sued by the idiot next to me because they got burned by the hot brass expelled during the shot that saved their life.

A friend of mine once argued with me that the government is stealing our civil liberties. I told him "we" are stealing our own civil liberties.
Thank folks.

That is the mentality these days, fireman pulls the kids out of the window of the burning house & the peeps are whining that the ladder was placed in the flower garden...

 

[skydivr]

There will be no easy answer, and every solution is going to carry it's own set of risks or unintentional consequences. The first time there's an incident with a permitted firearm that was put there to defend from an active shooter, you can guaranty that the anti-gun lobby will scream "SEE, THIS IS WHAT WE TOLD YOU WOULD HAPPEN", because there will be no way to tell if the policy actually prevented someone from doing it. Yet, the idea of banning all guns is just as stupid.

We wouldn't have to do ANY of this if we hadn't removed any moral guidance from our schools/homes/society.

 

[Blanca BusaLess]

Only problem I see here is, eventually if a kid and an armed teacher got into a fight/altercation, teacher used the gun in defense. It would be a nightmare for the, city, district, teacher, parents etc. people tend to not make stellar decision under stress.

Other than that, I see no problem with a legal citizen carrying a concealed gun anywhere. Imho there shouldn't even be a permit. Gun free zones are a joke and the signs are a joke. They mean little to somebody with intention to murder someone.

Or if a larger thug type student gets into a fight with said armed teacher and gun becomes known, student takes it from him and shoots him.


Maybe giving them tazers could be some middle ground? Had the principle tazed the kid in ct it may have shut him down? Tazers can't be used to kill multiple people if it fell into wrong hands.

 

[skydivr]

Agree a non-leathal means of stopping an active shooter would make much more sense and more preferred if possible.

 

[m_ridgeway]

Or if a larger thug type student gets into a fight with said armed teacher and gun becomes known, student takes it from him and shoots him.

Maybe giving them tazers could be some middle ground? Had the principle tazed the kid in ct it may have shut him down? Tazers can't be used to kill multiple people if it fell into wrong hands.

Truth, but like skydiver said its all really a powder keg when we "allow" these things in school for safety and something bad happens. Kid gets tazed and hits his head causing brain damage, or the heart attack scenario plays out like it does with leo's.

I think he hit the nail on the head with morality and gun restriction. We (society) have let teaching our kids morality slip through our fingers somewhere. We have a society of low accountability and a reward system based around failure. also restriction of gun possesion has never really helped anything, it has done quite the opposite and allow people to target gun free zones.

theres a problem in america with society, we are devolving. We are fat, lazy, dumb, uninformed, and becoming more dependent. its like being an inmate. I love this country and wouldn't want to be anywhere else, but the older I get the more I worry about what my son will have left. Will he look back at our current times and just be in shock of what we let happen?

 

[kneedraggin636]

Truth, but like skydiver said its all really a powder keg when we "allow" these things in school for safety and something bad happens. Kid gets tazed and hits his head causing brain damage, or the heart attack scenario plays out like it does with leo's.

I think he hit the nail on the head with morality and gun restriction. We (society) have let teaching our kids morality slip through our fingers somewhere. We have a society of low accountability and a reward system based around failure. also restriction of gun possesion has never really helped anything, it has done quite the opposite and allow people to target gun free zones.

theres a problem in america with society, we are devolving. We are fat, lazy, dumb, uninformed, and becoming more dependent. its like being an inmate. I love this country and wouldn't want to be anywhere else, but the older I get the more I worry about what my son will have left. Will he look back at our current times and just be in shock of what we let happen?

Amen brother, I worry about the society my son will be exposed to. Unfortunately I protect him from it, I can only educate him.

 

[StromBusa]

We will be back to moats & drawbridges pretty soon!

 

[Argilbertson]

There's a lot of other things we can, and should be doing to address this problem before we worry about if there should be armed guards on school campus. I think if we stopped demanding that our teachers spend close to $250,000 on their education only to pay them an obscenely low wage, that might help to bring back our educational system. If we actually started to fund our mental health care system properly and started to build our mental health services such that people who need help have affordable and accessible help, that would help with containing our burgeoning population of people suffering from serious mental health issues. If we started to address our economy such that people can actually find work that pays them a decent wage, such that they can afford to actually live in some small level of security, rather than continuing to breed generations of peasants in service to the lords and nobility of this country, that would go a long way towards healing the animosity that flows beneath our society like a toxic sewer.

A Happy, healthy, educated, and prosperous citizenry is rarely a violent one.