American made superbike tire!!

[Dehning]

There's a big difference between W's "up to" 168 vs. Z or ZR's "over 150" IMO.

W is the highest speed rating? Then Z or ZR is the same as W? Im all ears.

Read for yourself:
Wiki Link

[Blckbrd]

It just says W speed = 168 and Z = +150. I read many other sources of info, but none say that W has for all intents and purposes replaced Z ratings. Though I did find a "Y" rating ... never saw that on a tire before.

Seems like W has a "top speed" limit and Z doesn't. They come up with the top speed by testing whether the tire can maintain integrity while held at a speed for 10 mins.

[Ketchmi]

The "V" and "Z" ratings have been surpassed, tire technology has come a long way in the past couple of decades. They now have "W" which is up to 168mph continuous and "Y" which is 186mph continuous and then there is "(Y)" which is in excess of 186mph.

It is pretty hard to find anything with the old "V" and "Z" ratings anymore, they were the hot ticket in the 80's.

You learn a lot about tires when you do "Open Road Racing" like I used to do when I had the time. Extended high speed is tough on tires and if you didn't have the properly rated tires, you didn't run. Most of the classes tech speeds are based on the tires capabilities.

[aussiekeeper]

In the upper left corner they are called an M1 tire. That is Metzler which is German.

Make sure of the build dates on the tire as well, you wouldn't want to find a low cost tire from this stack....good luck.

Metzeler Has Recalled Motorcycle Tires
(SafetyAlerts) - The U.S. Department of Transportation’s National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) announced.

Make : METZELER Model : SPORTEC M-1 P Build Dates : JAN 26, 2003 - FEB 08, 2003

NHTSA CAMPAIGN ID Number : 03T003000

Component: TIRES:TREAD/BELT

Potential Number Of Units Affected : 53

Summary:
METZELER SPORTEC 120/17 ZR17 M-1 P MOTORCYCLE TIRE. DURING PRODUCTION, AN EXCESSIVE BELT TENSION WAS USED CAUSING HIGH COMPRESSION BETWEEN THE BELT AND CARCASS.

Consequence:
AS A RESULT, THE TIRE MAY CHANGE SHAPE AND A BUBBLE MAY APPEAR IN THE TREAD AREA CAUSING THE FRONT TIRE OF THE MOTORCYCLE TO VIBRATE. SUDDEN VIBRATION OF THE FRONT END COULD CAUSE THE DRIVER TO LOSE CONTROL, POSSIBLE RESULTING IN A VEHICLE CRASH.

Remedy:
METZELER WILL NOTIFY ITS CUSTOMERS AND REPLACE THE TIRES FREE OF CHARGE. OWNER NOTIFICATION IS EXPECTED TO BEGIN DURING NOVEMBER 2003. OWNERS WHO TAKE THEIR MOTORCYCLES TO AN AUTHORIZED DEALER ON AN AGREED UPON SERVICE DATE AND DO NOT RECEIVE THE FREE REMEDY WITHIN A REASONABLE TIME SHOULD CONTACT METZELER AT 706-368-5426.

Metzler is owned by Pirelli.............

[Tufbusa]

I have M3s on my XX right now and Ravens on on Busa, and they are too close to call in the twisties,.

Which tire gives up traction first?

My nerve gives up first!

Then how on earth would you know?

They are too close to call, which is why I think the price and longevity of the Ravens wins out for me.

As your skills develop so will your knowledge about tires and just how important that little quarter size patch of rubber really is, either before or after the crash!

[Busa1166]

Read for yourself:
Wiki Link

So the ZR is unlimited

[Strife]

Then how on earth would you know?



As your skills develop so will your knowledge about tires and just how important that little quarter size patch of rubber really is, either before or after the crash!

You talking about how important it is on public roads or track? Cause on public roads a $200+ tire and a $120 tire will yield the same performance for most part. If they don't then a person is probably doing something they aren't suppose to be doing to begin with on the public road. Plenty of public roads make it tempting(dragon etc..). One factor that makes things dangerous to push a tire to it limits on a public road is debris. At that point it don't matter what the tire cost cause sand/stones/oil on the road isn't prejudice. Basically uncontrolled environment. Never heard about "X" rider say that they would of been fine if they had a better tire when they hit that patch of sand going through a turn.

Track is a whole different story. It's all about pushing it to the limits. Tire selection then plays a bigger factor. Tracks have a controlled environment.

As far as the quality of the tires from the link of the OP? They probably won't be total garbage. Worse case scenario is the thread life won't be long.

Tires are bought to fit the riders needs.

[Tufbusa]

You talking about how important it is on public roads or track? Cause on public roads a $200+ tire and a $120 tire will yield the same performance for most part. If they don't then a person is probably doing something they aren't suppose to be doing to begin with on the public road. Plenty of public roads make it tempting(dragon etc..). One factor that makes things dangerous to push a tire to it limits on a public road is debris. At that point it don't matter what the tire cost cause sand/stones/oil on the road isn't prejudice. Basically uncontrolled environment. Never heard about "X" rider say that they would of been fine if they had a better tire when they hit that patch of sand going through a turn.

Track is a whole different story. It's all about pushing it to the limits. Tire selection then plays a bigger factor. Tracks have a controlled environment.

As far as the quality of the tires from the link of the OP? They probably won't be total garbage. Worse case scenario is the thread life won't be long.

Tires are bought to fit the riders needs.

I think maybe you missed my point?

That little quarter size contact patch is the only thing that seperates you from disaster every single time you throw a leg over the seat and it doesn't really care whether you are on public pavement or private pavement. Actually, you are much safer on a track than you are on public roads.

Purchasing unproven tires for the fire breathing beast you ride will only increase your chances of visiting the ER when you least expect it.

Using good judgment and common sense is no guarantee you will live a long and productive life but it certainly increases your chances!

[carlsbadbusa]

Still watching with interest, love Metzeler M3s, didn't like the M1s.

...and you guys are funny on tires, more money doesn't guarantee you better performance, I'd say until some magazine runs some controlled tests, there's no way of knowing. You could count on other members experience (perhaps more so) of tires than on price to pick a tire.

IF your counting on magazine test...that doesnt guarantee anything either...

[Strife]

I think maybe you missed my point?

That little quarter size contact patch is the only thing that seperates you from disaster every single time you throw a leg over the seat and it doesn't really care whether you are on public pavement or private pavement. Actually, you are much safer on a track than you are on public roads.

Purchasing unproven tires for the fire breathing beast you ride will only increase your chances of visiting the ER when you least expect it.

Using good judgment and common sense is no guarantee you will live a long and productive life but it certainly increases your chances!

May just have a different view. I'm simply stating that a $108 009 raven will perform just as well as an $220 Pirelli Diablo Corsa III on a public road. If you driving above the ability of the cheaper (PRICED) 009 raven then you shouldn't be doing what you doing in the 1st place on a public road.

Are you talking about a "Panic" situation? That is very hard to judge due to the many variables. Rider ability to handle the situation being the biggest factor. The argument can go both ways just like which is the best oil to use.

You strayed off the OP topic and that is what I was commenting on. Dehning being able to tell difference between two tire brands of their breaking point on a public road.

In general the science of making a tire isn't all that hard to put into a working tire. Technology is there compared to where it use to be. Outside a recall or two on a tire of major brand names, I don't recall a total fail of a company and their rubber. It's highly unlikely(not impossible) that a new company would put of a product that is a failed product(talking tires). Especially for motorcycles.

Which tire would I buy an 009 Shinko or a new tire that just hit the market? Probably the Shinko. Other tire from the link is $118 + $10 shipping. Shinko is $108 to my door and perfectly fine for the street. If there was one "Golden" tire for street then other companies would be out of business or making a comparable product(which is what we have).

They actually have a street tire and a track tire. Which I imagine has better grip then the street tire. As with most track tires the rider generally picks what he is comfortable using from trial use. That falls under personal preference. "X" brand might give "X" rider better personal times while "Y" brand might give "Y" rider better personal times.

[Tufbusa]

May just have a different view. I'm simply stating that a $108 009 raven will perform just as well as an $220 Pirelli Diablo Corsa III on a public road. If you driving above the ability of the cheaper (PRICED) 009 raven then you shouldn't be doing what you doing in the 1st place on a public road.

Are you talking about a "Panic" situation? That is very hard to judge due to the many variables. Rider ability to handle the situation being the biggest factor. The argument can go both ways just like which is the best oil to use.

You strayed off the OP topic and that is what I was commenting on. Dehning being able to tell difference between two tire brands of their breaking point on a public road.

In general the science of making a tire isn't all that hard to put into a working tire. Technology is there compared to where it use to be. Outside a recall or two on a tire of major brand names, I don't recall a total fail of a company and their rubber. It's highly unlikely(not impossible) that a new company would put of a product that is a failed product(talking tires). Especially for motorcycles.

Which tire would I buy an 009 Shinko or a new tire that just hit the market? Probably the Shinko. Other tire from the link is $118 + $10 shipping. Shinko is $108 to my door and perfectly fine for the street. If there was one "Golden" tire for street then other companies would be out of business or making a comparable product(which is what we have).

They actually have a street tire and a track tire. Which I imagine has better grip then the street tire. As with most track tires the rider generally picks what he is comfortable using from trial use. That falls under personal preference. "X" brand might give "X" rider better personal times while "Y" brand might give "Y" rider better personal times.

All that being said doesn't change the fact that one little patch of contact rubber is the only thing between you and the devils door. You certainly don't have to justify your choice of tires to me. Buy what you wish and if luck is with you, you can ride them the rest of your life without a problem.

Personally, I would not run a shinko tire if they were free! Nor would I wear a baseball cap instead of a helmet just because it was free. Placing $$ signs over safety is IMO foolish! You roll the dice long enough and eventually they will come up snake eyes!

You are 39 times more likely to die in a motorcycle crash than an auto crash. If you are smart, you will do every thing you can to lower your odds of becoming a statistic! There just may come a time when tire performance makes the difference in going home unscathed. Think about it! ???

[gh2man]

[Dehning]

All that being said doesn't change the fact that one little patch of contact rubber is the only thing between you and the devils door. You certainly don't have to justify your choice of tires to me. Buy what you wish and if luck is with you, you can ride them the rest of your life without a problem.

Personally, I would not run a shinko tire if they were free! Nor would I wear a baseball cap instead of a helmet just because it was free. Placing $$ signs over safety is IMO foolish! You roll the dice long enough and eventually they will come up snake eyes!

You are 39 times more likely to die in a motorcycle crash than an auto crash. If you are smart, you will do every thing you can to lower your odds of becoming a statistic! There just may come a time when tire performance makes the difference in going home unscathed. Think about it! ???

Dude, you highlighting the exact point that most people in this thread are trying to make, and that is that you think you are safer simply because you spend more money on a tire. Give us some concrete reasoning and not here say about why one tire is better than the next and I'm sure we'll all listen, but don't try and convince everybody that a pricetag is going to keep you safer.

[Tufbusa]

Dude, you highlighting the exact point that most people in this thread are trying to make, and that is that you think you are safer simply because you spend more money on a tire. Give us some concrete reasoning and not here say about why one tire is better than the next and I'm sure we'll all listen, but don't try and convince everybody that a pricetag is going to keep you safer.

Okay Boss, here's your proof!

I have crashed so many times I actually invented ways of crashing. I've crashed on race tires, I've crashed on cheap tires and I can assure you, I do know the difference. I know a good tire when I romp one, I know a shi-tty tire when I romp one and the good ones are not cheap!

The one thing I can assure you, when you get some experience under your belt along with a few crashes you'll have a much different attitude about tires and just how important that little patch I've keep referring to is!

Unfortunately, the learning curve is painful and expensive. As my daddy once told me "Son, it's a shame we grow old so soon and wise so late"!

[kennym4]

I just think if a company KNEW they had a GREAT tire they would charge that way. Again that's ONLY MY OPINION !! And for me riding is like 75% confidence, and my tires are what I'm usually worrying about the most, AGAIN JMO

[Strife]

Well heck.. been riding for 20+ years on the street and only been separated from my motorcycle once by being forced off the road. Had many close calls. It's part of life riding a motorcycle. About 2years into riding, I hit a deer on my 82 GS1100(sporting some continentals) that ran out into the road ahead of me causing my to react from a 70+ mph to an almost halt before impact on a dew'd up road here in Florida. Just saying that I've had my fair share of clenching the cheeks. Sorry you had a bumpy road on them public streets. But I'm happy I didn't share the same learning experience.

So by your logic I need to wreck more to realize in all those years of me riding I've been doing something wrong by not buying an upper priced tire? Florida has some of the worse drivers than any other state. It's not so much a retirement state like it use to be,but still plenty of cotton tops behind the wheel of a cage. They wrote a song about US19 cause it was at the time the most dangerous highway in the country. It's a mile from where I currently live. I drove on it often and still do.

Just for the record starting your claim to providing proof with...

"I have crashed so many times I actually invented ways of crashing."

...Doesn't exactly sound right. You had all these crashes on the street? What in the world were you doing?

This is just a friendly conversation and have no desire to upset you or anyone. Just one viewpoint discussing another is all it is.

[fastblackblur]

I won't run sub standard rubber because I don't want to find out how much less grip my cheap tire has when:

bambi steps in front of me and it's time for evasive maneuvers

there is a car coming around a corner in my lane and I have to drastically tighten up my line.

I misjudge my corner entry speed and come in 10mph to hot.

The list can go on and on. Most of out there riding are not perfect, we apply too much brake, too much throttle, coast through corners, use the rear brake when we shouldn't... A good set of tires can give you a much more acceptable margin of error with many of our rider inputs.

[kennym4]

I won't run sub standard rubber because I don't want to find out how much less grip my cheap tire has when:

bambi steps in front of me and it's time for evasive maneuvers

there is a car coming around a corner in my lane and I have to drastically tighten up my line.

I misjudge my corner entry speed and come in 10mph to hot.

The list can go on and on. Most of out there riding are not perfect, we apply too much brake, too much throttle, coast through corners, use the rear brake when we shouldn't... A good set of tires can give you a much more acceptable margin of error with many of our rider inputs.

In Florida it shouldn't matter what kind of tires you use, there aren't any turns is there That's a JOKE

The last 2 sentences is why I need proven tires.....I'm sure I do that often

The ? is How do you know what a LESSER tire is ?

I didn't mean to take your thread down this road Chris

[Dehning]

All I'm hearing is gut feel ... no definitive proof. I'm not trying to pi$$ anybody off either, I'm just tired of hearing speculation.

Saying that you have crashed a bunch of ways and so only trust higher priced tires is like saying you are switching from tap to bottled water because you keep knocking over the container.

I want to see empirical proof!

[sixpack577]

I can't speak for Tufbusa, but the real point I think he makes is that he can outride all of the cheaper tires being discussed.
I don't claim to be at his riding level either, but I drag a good knee, and can keep pace with the local track guys just fine. I've been running Pilot powers, not a great tire, but good enough for the money for me. I also can't ride as hard as I am capable with them either. I don't trust them to that level, but I'm not in a race just out rippin with my friends. A $500 set of tires that I will toast in a few days isn't affordable to me now, so I ride slower and cheaper.
Once you ride expensive sticky tires and have more confidence and ability because of them, you'll see they really make a difference. Trying to convince someone at that riding level to go to a much lesser tire isn't gonna happen for obvious reasons. And their opinion to run them is going to be extended to others just as their own good advice.