American m/c mfg in decline?

4wd

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The Suzuki Hayabusa has been out in the American marketplace for what---9 years??? And the only competition is from other Japanese m/c companies specifically Kawasaki.

Why hasn't any American company or bike shop stepped up and made something better with more features and benefits?

Looks to me as though America has totally lost the sport bike market to the same folks we once tried to vaporize.
 
This is close as your gonna get.GM owns a percentage of SUZUKI and has for almost 20 years that I know of.
 
I don't recall the US manufacturers ever being in the sport bike market. Buell kind of, but not really. US Manufacturers are not interested in manufacturing inexpensive bikes. If it weren't for the metric cruisers invading the V-twin cruiser market, I doubt you'd be able to find an American build bike for under $20,000.
 
Think about it - it's a big deal that Suz sold 10k Busas in the US last year, right? Whoop-te-doo, that's not squat in the big picture. Any automobile that sold 10k would be killed off. A motorcycle company has to be global to get any kind of volume that makes it a worthwhile venture. That means they need global sales and distribution which is hard to do effectively. The Japs started with low cost bikes they could build in volumes and worked up to the high performance bikes we have today. I don't think you could duplicate that method today. My perception is that low end bikes don't have the same market today that they have over the last 50 (unless you want to compete with really cheap bikes in third world countries). Nothing is impossible I guess, but I think the "easy" opportunity has passed.
 
Yeah, can't really think of any sport bike made in America, besides buell and thats a v twin so ... yeah...
 
Its not just motorcycles either.

I have the pleasure of being around some kids around the age of 22 and they laugh when you talk of a V8 with pushrods. They are getting the Japanese Supras, ZXs and similar equipment up to 300 hp in cars that are light and cool looking and doing it within their budget. My Vette's ZZ4 engine cost about $3.6K and for that they can put twin turbos on a rebuilt straight six that comes with a transmission and still have the jack left over to smurf up the rest of the car. They actually refer to straight up FI as 'naturally aspirated'!!

My kid was asking me last night why American companies dont evolve a little, he drives an '87 Trans Am BTW, and I told him its all about bottom line. Our companies do what makes money and they live month by month, quarter by quarter and dont think about next year or the year after.

I'd love to see a domestic bike come out without pushrods and without a lame air-cooled V-twin...
 
Quite possibly correct Dennis that the 'easy' opportunity for a new bike to break into the marketplace has past, but I saw my first Korean Hyosung 650 up close a few days ago, and it looks like a chromed up V-rod. At $6200, and the naked sport Hyosung 650 for $4999,I'm sure it will find some takers. Price still means something in America, especially if you are a little short.
http://www.hyosungmotorsusa.com/product....Cruiser

It just makes me disappointed with all the superb engineering and design schools America has and all the technology and resources avail here, that no one has tried to come up with a better Hayabusa. He!!, even Suzuki can't change it much 'cept to meet new EPA regs using a cat.

I just like to keep my money home, but I also want the most bang for my buck, so there you go!
 
YH2K -

Aspiration is in reference to how the engine breathes, so without any external pressure device it is NA.  If straight up FI means no blower or turbo (or nitrous) they would be correct.
 
(Dennis @ Aug. 10 2007,08:24) YH2K -

Aspiration is in reference to how the engine breathes, so without any external pressure device it is NA.  If straight up FI means no blower or turbo (or nitrous) they would be correct.
Oh.... my bad....

In my world, perhaps 'old world'! NA referred to carbs, anything with FI was...
Oh, I'll just hush while I am only in this deep!
 
(YH2K @ Aug. 10 2007,12:01)
(Dennis @ Aug. 10 2007,08:24) YH2K -

Aspiration is in reference to how the engine breathes, so without any external pressure device it is NA. If straight up FI means no blower or turbo (or nitrous) they would be correct.
Oh.... my bad....

In my world, perhaps 'old world'! NA referred to carbs, anything with FI was...
Oh, I'll just hush while I am only in this deep!
Plus 300 hp is the stock hp of a turbo supra, those boy have pushed those things well over 1000hp, yep thats 3 zeros. Unfortunately US manufacturers are still far behind in the engine tech dept.
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course the LS8 is on its way (700 HP)
 
OK couple of things that I have learned along the way.

Looks to me as though America has totally lost the sport bike market to the same folks we once tried to vaporize.[/Quote]

I know you didn't mean anything bad by this, but Hiroshima and Nagasaki were deterrants more than anything else. The Japanese ground fighters were boarderline phochotic by our modern standards. they had a society steeped in militant history where people to this day actively train in combat. The Japanese are capable of being both peaceful and ruthless at the same time. They say the war chrimes that were perpetrated by individual Japanese soldiers in China rivald some of the most horrendous acts in history.

I had to do a report when I was in college on quality methods (Aviation major where consistency and quality are the highest ideals.) I read about this guy W.Edwards Deming who was the reason that the Japanese are as good as they are now. Basically, in the post WWII eras Japan was not an industrial nation. They were still dealing with a lot of internal issues between the old and the new ways of manufacturing, and having miltiple nucler weapons detonated in your country tends to mess up your economy and national morale pretty badly. This guy came in and fixed all that. When people talk about "Jap crap" they weren't kidding. Remember the Kia Rio and how bad Koreas' quality name was a few years ago? Think the same thing in Japan in the 50's.

As we all know now, in todays society the modern Japan is much different, but it's been just over 50 years since they fixed that problem. They weren't always the best at making technology, but they were always really good about being flexible. Personally, I think it has to do with the mindset of the Japanese. Their culture is very accepting of just about anything incorporated into it at this point. Which is why you see so many religions over there that comingle with less issue. It just isn't really a big deal to them, and maybe that's just a bad example.

The problem with American manufacturing is multi-fold. If you look at the corporate structure, any year that you don't have a profit made is a year that the corporate entity isn't performing up to it's legal mandates (it's promise to the shareholders). This creates avery "play not to lose" mentality.

In addition to this you have the big three's mentality that people will just buy from them no matter what. And on some level, it's true. Just look at all the Ford loyal people out there who will by their craptacular jukers and pay far too much. Or a more relavant example would be Harley-Davidson, which you can look at two ways... they either don't want to pay to keep up, or they are holding on to a culture that works. Either one and both may be true at the same time.

Finally (even though there is a lot more), you have to keep in mind that R&D, especially into an undeveloped market is exceedingly expensive. Tooling machines is not cheap and designers don't have big houses by accident. R&D on anything, but particularly on automobiles is exceedingly expensive. It's cheaper to go into litigation and fight to keep rights than it is to go into R&D and make new things (or fix EPA standards, which is a personal pet peeve of mine).

And then lets be honest. The Sportbike market is damn near perfect. Seriously. If you can think of a better way to pack frame, engine, drivetrain, and a seat into a bike and make it lighter, pass EPA, and safety requirements, and still have it rev to 15k while allowing it to tear through a corner. Let me know. I want the finders fee for putting someone in touch with the big manufacturers. So if I was a company like Harley. Why should I even bother? The market is closed and I am 20 years behind.
 
AMERICA has become behind in the EVERYTHING department. We sit around selfishly eating ourselves to death, straddling too many fences to every make a concrete decision, run circles around each other under the unbrella of politically correctness as to NEVER offend anyone.... we're too busy being busily stupid to get anything done. Yeah, we have some good stuff here and there - I suppose our doctors are pretty good - but we're letting everyone else trounce on us....

.... it's the American way. Now.
 
What do you expect, Americans in the lime light (Duh Man) has been saling out since Reagon left office!!!!! The day is coming soon for the TROJAN HORSE to open it's belly all the way!!! and it want just spit out Japanese!!!!!
 
hummmm well i would have to say my wife is from japan and they do a`good job in that department also
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(Big Red @ Aug. 10 2007,16:06) The world's greatest super power can't even build a modern bike!
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Sure it can, look a Buel switching to a Rotax water cooled engine this year  
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 . Do I want one  
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 --- NO, will it beat the Busa in anything  
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NO. Will it compete with the Jap or Euro 600's
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? Maybe  
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! Will HARLEY push it in refinement when needed or in sales --- NO NO NO  
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(Dennis @ Aug. 10 2007,09:44) Think about it - it's a big deal that Suz sold 10k Busas in the US last year, right? Whoop-te-doo, that's not squat in the big picture. Any automobile that sold 10k would be killed off...
True, and sad.
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(Smoke_Dog @ Aug. 10 2007,16:18) What do you expect, Americans in the lime light (Duh Man) has been saling out since Reagon left office!!!!! The day is coming soon for the TROJAN HORSE to open it's belly all the way!!! and it want just spit out Japanese!!!!!
"Corporate America" and being "Politically Correct"  will Eventually Destroy this Beautifull Country of OURS  
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Reagan was the Best President that we EVER HAD !!!!!
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