Suspension chat. Explain shock Pre-Load

[TallTom]

Yeah, I had a '94 Kawasaki zx7 years ago, black with a polished frame and swingarm, and I added chrome wheels and several other chrome bits.
It looked great too...but what a pain in the azz to keep clean and looking good...

Yeah I don't really care how my chrome looks in the middle of Wyoming heading to Montana. I not making space for a bottle of chrome polish.

 

[TallTom]

Some days you just get freaking lucky! As I understood pre-load better I started Goldwing exploring discussing suspension generalities. I quickly learned that while Honda did a lot of things right on the GW, they sort of waded through the cost aspects of just what limits they bake into the assumptions. They essentially planned for a 165 lb rider with maybe another 250 added after that, as their engineering/cost model. And there was a slew of cost effective suspension offerings within their cost factoring, right off the shelf. So we got what we got, which is a pretty plush ride but don't ask much of it if you fall outside of their model.

Essentially they are under sprung straight out of the box. So is the Hayabusa. As we all sort of know by all of our suspension upgrades

So in 2012 Honda began to realize that they needed to address this and they upgraded the shock assembly and kept the same spring. Better, for not much difference in cost. But better was still high mediocre now.

All along you had aftermarket companies offering suspension upgrades. They could make the Wing kick the crap out of a lot of bikes. As we have seen the famous Wing on the Dragon videos

Getting back to my luck now. When I bought the bike it had $3K in front end upgrades. Stock rear. And this thread came about. So I've been hunting up a 2012+ shock, and adding a Progressive Spring to it. A pretty good upgrade for about $400. A lot of Wing Owners said good bang for the buck upgrade.

My front end was done by Traxxion at their Ga site. (I'll get back to this in a bit).

So I put the word out to the trike conversion shops that I was looking for a 2012+ shock. Had 3 shops on notice.

I get a call yesterday from a youngish sounding female. I'm Michelle. I was given your number if we got a conversion shock leftover. My job is to sell off any parts taken off these and I wanted to see if this might work. I have this shock in this box of parts off a 2010. It's not a Honda shock. So I don't know if you're interested. I don't know the brand.

I thought heck no probably junk. I said can you send me a pic?

20 mins later and here it comes.

It was a Traxxion rear shock assembly! The whole thing! I had to call Traxxion just because I couldn't believe it. We exchanged tech details and he responded with yes that is our top of the line shock package. That's the back half to your front half. $1800 worth!

So I call back sweet little naive Michelle.

Um Michelle, I don't know, it's not a 2012 bike and I can't find anything from Honda on it. I'm not sure it can be upgraded from what I see.

Yes Tom I understand, I just thought I'd let you know. I'll probably put it on EBay.

Michelle what do you normally sell these shocks for?

Oh we get $250.

Um Michelle, I can probably send it off to a shock shop and hopefully get it worked on. I'm not sure if I want to get stuck with it at that price.

I understand Tom. Would you like to make an offer? I kicked at the imaginary rock on the ground over the phone and asked can you give me an idea of shipping cost.

She came back with $40.

In my best kicking the rock voice.

Yikes that's a lot. I was hoping it would be more reasonable. Can you take $120?

She said how about $175 in that sweet southern drawl.

I said Gee I don't know. Can you do $200 shipped to my door?

Yeah I'll do that.

I COULD NOT GET MY CREDIT CARD OUT FAST ENOUGH!!!!!

OK Boys. If this bike feels mushy now, I'm going to sell it!

I now have the $5K Wing on the Dragon upgraded suspension.

Could not believe that sweet little southern syrup accent was so lucky to call me!

It will be a bit of a project to swap it out. But I'm all on fire to do it now!

And I can sell off the OEM for apparently $250 on E-Bay.

Been awhile since I got this lucky.

 

[zeepopo2]

Wow

Some days you just get freaking lucky! As I understood pre-load better I started Goldwing exploring discussing suspension generalities. I quickly learned that while Honda did a lot of things right on the GW, they sort of waded through the cost aspects of just what limits they bake into the assumptions. They essentially planned for a 165 lb rider with maybe another 250 added after that, as their engineering/cost model. And there was a slew of cost effective suspension offerings within their cost factoring, right off the shelf. So we got what we got, which is a pretty plush ride but don't ask much of it if you fall outside of their model.

Essentially they are under sprung straight out of the box. So is the Hayabusa. As we all sort of know by all of our suspension upgrades

So in 2012 Honda began to realize that they needed to address this and they upgraded the shock assembly and kept the same spring. Better, for not much difference in cost. But better was still high mediocre now.

All along you had aftermarket companies offering suspension upgrades. They could make the Wing kick the crap out of a lot of bikes. As we have seen the famous Wing on the Dragon videos

Getting back to my luck now. When I bought the bike it had $3K in front end upgrades. Stock rear. And this thread came about. So I've been hunting up a 2012+ shock, and adding a Progressive Spring to it. A pretty good upgrade for about $400. A lot of Wing Owners said good bang for the buck upgrade.

My front end was done by Traxxion at their Ga site. (I'll get back to this in a bit).

So I put the word out to the trike conversion shops that I was looking for a 2012+ shock. Had 3 shops on notice.

I get a call yesterday from a youngish sounding female. I'm Michelle. I was given your number if we got a conversion shock leftover. My job is to sell off any parts taken off these and I wanted to see if this might work. I have this shock in this box of parts off a 2010. It's not a Honda shock. So I don't know if you're interested. I don't know the brand.

I thought heck no probably junk. I said can you send me a pic?

20 mins later and here it comes.

It was a Traxxion rear shock assembly! The whole thing! I had to call Traxxion just because I couldn't believe it. We exchanged tech details and he responded with yes that is our top of the line shock package. That's the back half to your front half. $1800 worth!

So I call back sweet little naive Michelle.

Um Michelle, I don't know, it's not a 2012 bike and I can't find anything from Honda on it. I'm not sure it can be upgraded from what I see.

Yes Tom I understand, I just thought I'd let you know. I'll probably put it on EBay.

Michelle what do you normally sell these shocks for?

Oh we get $250.

Um Michelle, I can probably send it off to a shock shop and hopefully get it worked on. I'm not sure if I want to get stuck with it at that price.

I understand Tom. Would you like to make an offer? I kicked at the imaginary rock on the ground over the phone and asked can you give me an idea of shipping cost.

She came back with $40.

In my best kicking the rock voice.

Yikes that's a lot. I was hoping it would be more reasonable. Can you take $120?

She said how about $175 in that sweet southern drawl.

I said Gee I don't know. Can you do $200 shipped to my door?

Yeah I'll do that.

I COULD NOT GET MY CREDIT CARD OUT FAST ENOUGH!!!!!

OK Boys. If this bike feels mushy now, I'm going to sell it!

I now have the $5K Wing on the Dragon upgraded suspension.

Could not believe that sweet little southern syrup accent was so lucky to call me!

It will be a bit of a project to swap it out. But I'm all on fire to do it now!

And I can sell off the OEM for apparently $250 on E-Bay.

Been awhile since I got this lucky.

Great find! So I'll add this in case the spring it has is not strong enough. Whenever possible never upgrade just the spring. Need to revalve to match the new spring. If you don't the ride will be too stiff at low speed and too soft at high. Voice of experience talking.

 

[TallTom]

Wow

Great find! So I'll add this in case the spring it has is not strong enough. Whenever possible never upgrade just the spring. Need to revalve to match the new spring. If you don't the ride will be too stiff at low speed and too soft at high. Voice of experience talking.

I told Traxxion my weight and it's profile I had in mind for the bike. He said you got the right spring. The only time they put in a heavier set up is for heavyweight single riders or both positions being large people. Like 600+ lbs of human weight. I asked if it was serviceable and did it require periodic servicing. Yes but we don't recommend anyone that doesn't have experience in doing it, to try. Followed up by saying he doubt it would need servicing unless it has really been abused hard. Like max weight and aggressive riding pretty much full-time.

So I'm not sure if I should baseline it or not before putting it in. It's a PITA to remove and re-install.

But how hard can it be to service? If it's not leaking, valving doesn't really change. I can't think there is much to service. Their unit is built by Penske. To their specs. And they install the spring and upgrade the pre-load pump. Which I can do. That's not a big challenge there.

Am I getting cocky thinking I don't need to worry about servicing this?

 

[zeepopo2]

I told Traxxion my weight and it's profile I had in mind for the bike. He said you got the right spring. The only time they put in a heavier set up is for heavyweight single riders or both positions being large people. Like 600+ lbs of human weight. I asked if it was serviceable and did it require periodic servicing. Yes but we don't recommend anyone that doesn't have experience in doing it, to try. Followed up by saying he doubt it would need servicing unless it has really been abused hard. Like max weight and aggressive riding pretty much full-time.

So I'm not sure if I should baseline it or not before putting it in. It's a PITA to remove and re-install.

But how hard can it be to service? If it's not leaking, valving doesn't really change. I can't think there is much to service. Their unit is built by Penske. To their specs. And they install the spring and upgrade the pre-load pump. Which I can do. That's not a big challenge there.

Am I getting cocky thinking I don't need to worry about servicing this?

Well if the spring is correct to your weight no need to worry, valving should be correct since they built it themselves. Service is essential for heavily used units or just old. See if there is a serial number on it they can trace back to its build date. Service isn't hard as long as you have nitrogen tank, gauges and the tools to disassemble. But for a Goldwing that shock shouldn't have been beat up too much. Just instal and ride, then at some later point service the front and rear together or just learn to do it yourself. Old oil thins out and increases your rebound speed. You'll know as you ride the oil is aging because tire wear changes and you have to change suspension settings to get back the same feel as before.

 

[Hayabusa Wannabe]

@TallTom will you negotiate my next vehicle purchase for me? Or house? Or job even?

 

[TallTom]

Well if the spring is correct to your weight no need to worry, valving should be correct since they built it themselves. Service is essential for heavily used units or just old. See if there is a serial number on it they can trace back to its build date. Service isn't hard as long as you have nitrogen tank, gauges and the tools to disassemble. But for a Goldwing that shock shouldn't have been beat up too much. Just instal and ride, then at some later point service the front and rear together or just learn to do it yourself. Old oil thins out and increases your rebound speed. You'll know as you ride the oil is aging because tire wear changes and you have to change suspension settings to get back the same feel as before.

Well it is off a 2010. That's 13 years.

 

[TallTom]

@TallTom will you negotiate my next vehicle purchase for me? Or house? Or job even?

You must missed the part where I said LUCKY. Lol

 

[Bumblebee]

@TallTom will you negotiate my next vehicle purchase for me? Or house? Or job even?

Off topic of the title but on topic with your post....

My wife is the "velociraptor" of negotiations when it comes to buying anything.....after a while the salespeople just want her out of the building...she's seriously tenacious and relentless when it comes to getting a deal.....

She will find the slightest weakness in a vehicle and exploit that to the maximum....I remember when I was buying my last GSXR, the salesman almost threw the paperwork in the air and told her to just take the bike....and when I bought my last pickup truck when I retired, she drove the salesman absolutely nuts, she shut down the 'ol back and forth to his supervisor right off the get go....I was fun to watch and I just sat back with a stupid grin on my face...

Now she will soon be in the market for a new car herself....and I can't wait.....

 

[TallTom]

Off topic of the title but on topic with your post....

My wife is the "velociraptor" of negotiations when it comes to buying anything.....after a while the salespeople just want her out of the building...she's seriously tenacious and relentless when it comes to getting a deal.....

She will find the slightest weakness in a vehicle and exploit that to the maximum....I remember when I was buying my last GSXR, the salesman almost threw the paperwork in the air and told her to just take the bike....and when I bought my last pickup truck when I retired, she drove the salesman absolutely nuts, she shut down the 'ol back and forth to his supervisor right off the get go....I was fun to watch and I just sat back with a stupid grin on my face...

Now she will soon be in the market for a new car herself....and I can't wait.....

I have some Chinese friends. Him more than her, but I know them both.

We needed to go to Home Depot because he has a lawnmower belt that was needing replaced. She wanted to go.

We had ONE item to take to the check out. Ran like $23.

She wanted to bicker over some sort of discount for it. She had her phone open to Amazon. Same part. Cheaper price by like $2. Price match. I want a supervisor.

OMG it was embarrassing as hell. She totally used the whole "Just agitate enough they want to get rid of her" strategy. Over a lawnmower belt!

 

[Bumblebee]

I have some Chinese friends. Him more than her, but I know them both.

We needed to go to Home Depot because he has a lawnmower belt that was needing replaced. She wanted to go.

We had ONE item to take to the check out. Ran like $23.

She wanted to bicker over some sort of discount for it. She had her phone open to Amazon. Same part. Cheaper price by like $2. Price match. I want a supervisor.

OMG it was embarrassing as hell. She totally used the whole "Just agitate enough they want to get rid of her" strategy. Over a lawnmower belt!

My wife would do that if she had a mind to.....

She's definitely not scared to question a price on something and 99.9% of the time, she wins....

It's scary.....

If I ever divorced her, I'd be living in a cardboard box and not a good wax coated one either....

 

[zeepopo2]

Well it is off a 2010. That's 13 years.

Uff that's a long time. I be worried about seals drying up. Sounds like a freshening up is in order.

 

[sixpack577]

Fix it good too...that way, when you're tired of it, I can buy it and fly out and ride it home(hey, where else am I getting a Goldwing on aftermarket suspension without having to do it myself, lol).

 

[TallTom]

My wife would do that if she had a mind to.....

She's definitely not scared to question a price on something and 99.9% of the time, she wins....

It's scary.....

If I ever divorced her, I'd be living in a cardboard box and not a good wax coated one either....

Yep. You know what she's capable of when she's happy. It will be Jihad if she's unhappy!

 

[Bumblebee]

Fix it good too...that way, when you're tired of it, I can buy it and fly out and ride it home(hey, where else am I getting a Goldwing on aftermarket suspension without having to do it myself, lol).

I just watched a show called "How they do that" and they were building a Gold Wing at the factory....it was pretty interesting....

 

[TallTom]

Uff that's a long time. I be worried about seals drying up. Sounds like a freshening up is in order.

Here's the thing I am still digging into as best I can. It was installed on a 2010 bike. But I don't know in what year that shock was done. Until I get in in my hands we are sort of limited in knowledge.

Typically a trike happens when medical circumstances make a 900 lb motorcycle ill advised. So they trike it, to keep riding. Or they get triked because the bike is simply too big, but they still want to tour.

So I doubt it got ridden hard. I suspect they were just trying to make it feel better to the rear passenger.

They could be 300+ lb riders. And wanted more suspension.

But yeah I do think about just doing a baseline like seal change. And change the fluids. And never look at it again.

Michelle said the bike paperwork said the shock has 10K on it. But I don't put stock in that.

Traxxion of course doesn't want me to service it. Instead let them do it for $300+. But then state the service schedule is every 50K. So they could wipe it down, test it, send it back and never changed one thing. Essentially they want you to pay for the test data the dyno will provide. It may or may not have had anything done to it.

He did say 2010 is about the time they abandoned the "sock" and went to a new design and that had a better seal design. He wasn't sure if the exact year. 10 years ago he didn't work there. But they sold them and still sell now that "sock" as it does keep the road grit from finding a home anywhere near the seals.

So to service it, I'd need a spring compressor (got that covered), nitrogen tanks to recharge it, and probably some sort of tool for the seal R&R. Which those I don't. On the surface it seems like anybody that does shocks can do this. Traxxion just assembles the Penske heart with the rest of the bits and calls it a Traxxion shock.

 

[TallTom]

Fix it good too...that way, when you're tired of it, I can buy it and fly out and ride it home(hey, where else am I getting a Goldwing on aftermarket suspension without having to do it myself, lol).

Careful what you wish for. My intent on buying this was to set her up for Transcontinental crossing (U.S one way and Canada back), and sell it when done. And move out of country. It may take me a year to do, but it will be one set up bike for the next owner.

 

[sixpack577]

Careful what you wish for. My intent on buying this was to set her up for Transcontinental crossing (U.S one way and Canada back), and sell it when done. And move out of country. It may take me a year to do, but it will be one set up bike for the next owner.

Hey, ya never know.
I seriously think I will by a used GW next, but no time soon.
I have to finish my Gsxr1k project, and need to fix a few small things on my DRZ and sell or trade it.
In the meantime I will get rid of some motorcycles...so I can get more motorcycles
lol

 

[TallTom]

Hey, ya never know.
I seriously think I will by a used GW next, but no time soon.
I have to finish my Gsxr1k project, and need to fix a few small things on my DRZ and sell or trade it.
In the meantime I will get rid of some motorcycles...so I can get more motorcycles
lol

Well this big fat girl will take up the space of 2.5 bikes. I've gotten used to her bulk. But make no mistake, she's a lot of woman. And she will do pretty much anything you ask. You just have to learn how to talk to a fat girl.

 

[zeepopo2]

Here's the thing I am still digging into as best I can. It was installed on a 2010 bike. But I don't know in what year that shock was done. Until I get in in my hands we are sort of limited in knowledge.

Typically a trike happens when medical circumstances make a 900 lb motorcycle ill advised. So they trike it, to keep riding. Or they get triked because the bike is simply too big, but they still want to tour.

So I doubt it got ridden hard. I suspect they were just trying to make it feel better to the rear passenger.

They could be 300+ lb riders. And wanted more suspension.

But yeah I do think about just doing a baseline like seal change. And change the fluids. And never look at it again.

Michelle said the bike paperwork said the shock has 10K on it. But I don't put stock in that.

Traxxion of course doesn't want me to service it. Instead let them do it for $300+. But then state the service schedule is every 50K. So they could wipe it down, test it, send it back and never changed one thing. Essentially they want you to pay for the test data the dyno will provide. It may or may not have had anything done to it.

He did say 2010 is about the time they abandoned the "sock" and went to a new design and that had a better seal design. He wasn't sure if the exact year. 10 years ago he didn't work there. But they sold them and still sell now that "sock" as it does keep the road grit from finding a home anywhere near the seals.

So to service it, I'd need a spring compressor (got that covered), nitrogen tanks to recharge it, and probably some sort of tool for the seal R&R. Which those I don't. On the surface it seems like anybody that does shocks can do this. Traxxion just assembles the Penske heart with the rest of the bits and calls it a Traxxion shock.

Yes anyone that does suspension can refresh it. They contact Traxxion, order seals,get the specs and it's done. It's about a hours work depending on how thorough they are. Complete disassembly, clean, seals, fluids, pressurize and it's done.