I'D LIKE TO START A CHRISTIAN RIDERS CLUB.
- Thread starter BigDawg_03Busa
- Start date
Seems this thread has been hijacked. At any rate I would happy to ride with ya. I don't go to church much but I am a Christian by definition, just in my own way. I live by example and by my own set of morals and standards. The world is my Church and the everyone is in my congregation. I strive to treat them all with respect and love just as He would want me to.
I figure that if you do believe and you find out when you die we were all wrong, you have lost nothing. But if you do not belive and you find out it is all true you have lost everything. So why not belive in something. It makes you a better person whether either way. Peace.
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I figure that if you do believe and you find out when you die we were all wrong, you have lost nothing. But if you do not belive and you find out it is all true you have lost everything. So why not belive in something. It makes you a better person whether either way. Peace.
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Originally posted by EAKbusa I figure that if you do believe and you find out when you die we were all wrong, you have lost nothing. But if you do not belive and you find out it is all true you have lost everything.[/QUOTE]
Blaise Pascal - Pascal's Wager. Or half of it anyway.
So why not belive in something. It makes you a better person whether either way.[/QUOTE]
What if I sincerely believe in something, but what I believe in is wrong, yet I'm sincere in what I believe? Am I ahead still?? Or have I lost everything in being sincerely wrong...
In saying that it's possible that you "do not belive and you find out it is all true you have lost everything", you're saying that (i) There is Absolute Truth, (ii) This Truth has been made available to find, (iii) Everything depends on the recognition of and adherence to this Truth, and (iiii) Failure to recognize and ahere to this Truth results in the loss of everything. You've not defined 'everything' but in context I'll assume you mean eternal reward.
How then have you come to call yourself a Christian yet reject certain major tenets of Christianity?
Steve
Blaise Pascal - Pascal's Wager. Or half of it anyway.
So why not belive in something. It makes you a better person whether either way.[/QUOTE]
What if I sincerely believe in something, but what I believe in is wrong, yet I'm sincere in what I believe? Am I ahead still?? Or have I lost everything in being sincerely wrong...
In saying that it's possible that you "do not belive and you find out it is all true you have lost everything", you're saying that (i) There is Absolute Truth, (ii) This Truth has been made available to find, (iii) Everything depends on the recognition of and adherence to this Truth, and (iiii) Failure to recognize and ahere to this Truth results in the loss of everything. You've not defined 'everything' but in context I'll assume you mean eternal reward.
How then have you come to call yourself a Christian yet reject certain major tenets of Christianity?
Steve
In short, you'll get one of two responses in most cases:
1) The more conservative line - "God has shown himself to everyone..."
I don't use this one. The difference is HOW God made his presence known - which is entirely up to him... and we are not necessarily privy to that information. I fully beleive he does it, I'm just not sure I'm smart enough to recognize it.
2) The one I believe - "Judgement is reserved for God only..."
I find this one a bit more plausible... mostly because he himself said exactly that.
"Vengeance is mine, thus saith the Lord..." etc...
"Judge not lest ye yourself be judged..."
***Note, I'm paraphrasing, of course. No Bible handy at work.***
Now, this doesn't mean that witnessing is a bad thing or anything crazy like that, just that God has his plan and will execute that plan.
We may be the one thing that makes a non-believer into a believer, or we may not. In my opinion, the important thing is that we live our lives by the most basic and powerful principles and then witness by example.
In the verses quoted above by the individual who questions my knowledge... the people being addressed are being "dressed down" for specifically the things that I'm talking about... talking the talk, but not walking the walk:
""Woe unto you, scribes and pharisees, hypocrites! For ye devour widow's houses, and for a pretence make long prayer; therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation. Woe unto you, scribes and pharisees, hypocrites! For ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves."
"Woe unto you, scribes and pharisees, hypocrites! For ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess."
"Woe unto you, scribes and pharisees, hypocrites! For ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness."
The difference, for my wonderfully literal (and terribly legalistic) friend, is that if you're a believer you have to recognize the fact that THE GUY TALKING has the RIGHT TO JUDGE and YOU AND I don't.
Get the point?
Furthermore, there is relatively solid evidence that at least one of the people he was talking to at the time WAS SAVED.
That would be Paul, who was a leading figure in the Pharisee/Saducee crowd...
So, there's at least enough grace out there from the guy who had the right to damn anybody to hell he so choose to save a legalistic hypocrite and murderer of Christians (Paul...), a prostitute (Mary Magdelene...), a tax collector (little more than a thief...), and one who denied him three times (Peter).
Jesus didn't hang out with the popular, good-looking, rich, cultured people around at the time. Jesus' spent most of his time with the outcasts and untouchables and average folks. In short, Jesus hung out with the "sinners" of the time, not the "saints".
If HE can provide that kind of grace while being perfect (which you have to believe he was if you're a Christian), can't you and I (who are far less than perfect - which you also have to believe if you're a Christian...) then do the same thing???
And if you're NOT a Christian, why in the world would you care to argue with a guy who is advocating that Christians should be MORE kind, gentle, understanding, forgiving, peaceful and LESS judgemental???
Boggles the mind...
Truly, what are you arguing here? You've provided a few examples (generally taken out of context to prove a narrow point)... do I need to whip out every example of forgiveness and grace in the New Testament? Would that convince you? I can kill millions of electrons doing that, would you like me to? Would you change your mind if I did?
In truth, you can read it for yourself if you like (or re-read it paying special attention to those passages if that's the case)... Maybe that would be better anyway.
I guess I completely hijacked this... I'd like to say I'm sorry to the original poster.
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I would really like to continue this discussion, but not in this thread lest it be hijacked beyond repair.
Suffice to say, the questions to which you responded were not asked of you, although fitting none the less. And it seems your concentration lasted but a few paragraphs, then you stray into, well, other territory.
I posted in response to you with Biblical evidence that Jesus was not the Universalist you apparently portray Him to be. Also, unless you're willing to suggest that Jesus always spoke from His Divine nature, you have a problem of internal consistency. Christ spoke from two natures - both from His Divine as well as His human nature - e.g., I and My Father are One, and, I thirst.
Lastly, when speaking of Biblical judgement, in order to be accurate you must make a distinction between judgement/condemnation and judgement/discernment, otherwise we have Jesus contradicting Himself in Matthew 7:1 - "Judge not, that ye be not judged", and John 7:24 - "Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgement".
Anyway, if you wish to carry on we're going to have to move.
Steve
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Suffice to say, the questions to which you responded were not asked of you, although fitting none the less. And it seems your concentration lasted but a few paragraphs, then you stray into, well, other territory.
I posted in response to you with Biblical evidence that Jesus was not the Universalist you apparently portray Him to be. Also, unless you're willing to suggest that Jesus always spoke from His Divine nature, you have a problem of internal consistency. Christ spoke from two natures - both from His Divine as well as His human nature - e.g., I and My Father are One, and, I thirst.
Lastly, when speaking of Biblical judgement, in order to be accurate you must make a distinction between judgement/condemnation and judgement/discernment, otherwise we have Jesus contradicting Himself in Matthew 7:1 - "Judge not, that ye be not judged", and John 7:24 - "Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgement".
Anyway, if you wish to carry on we're going to have to move.
Steve
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Geez guys. Lets chill.
Thanks for the defense PacerX. I still think that what I said needs no defense nor explanation but you did a good job. That is the problem with "hardcore" Christians (sorry for the crappy term). They are all to ready to condemn everyone else yet they seem to miss the point of living like Jesus did. Yet again why I do not go to church very often. I just don't like to argue with the hardcore types.
To be truly happy, we must have ballance in our lives my friends, and that includes religion. Too much of anything is a bad thing, even including religion. Peace.
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Thanks for the defense PacerX. I still think that what I said needs no defense nor explanation but you did a good job. That is the problem with "hardcore" Christians (sorry for the crappy term). They are all to ready to condemn everyone else yet they seem to miss the point of living like Jesus did. Yet again why I do not go to church very often. I just don't like to argue with the hardcore types.
To be truly happy, we must have ballance in our lives my friends, and that includes religion. Too much of anything is a bad thing, even including religion. Peace.
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BigDawg_03Busa
Registered
The only thing we can never have too much of is Christ. I agree however that balance is needed and again I emphasize, if I never fellowshiped /c nonbelievers/unchurched/unsaved whatever you want to say to whom then would I witness or minister?
"Hardcore Christians" that look down on others...well I got another name for that "hypocrits" and there is a spot in Hell waiting. Again I judge not individuals, but I do judge their works! I'm definitely a Jesus Freak (proud of it) because I know from where my strength comes, He's revealed things to me no man or woman could understand. He's answered my prayers in the most sweetest way as to say it was only ME! Not your buddy, your credit, your money or your education. He opens doors no man can close and when I'm on that 2-wheeled T-Rex he's ridin with me. That's comforting and if ya don't know how that feels ya need to try it. Good info going on in this thread, but I agree it needs to be redirected...no hard feelings fellas for the hijack
Nuttin but luv fo ya,
BD
"Hardcore Christians" that look down on others...well I got another name for that "hypocrits" and there is a spot in Hell waiting. Again I judge not individuals, but I do judge their works! I'm definitely a Jesus Freak (proud of it) because I know from where my strength comes, He's revealed things to me no man or woman could understand. He's answered my prayers in the most sweetest way as to say it was only ME! Not your buddy, your credit, your money or your education. He opens doors no man can close and when I'm on that 2-wheeled T-Rex he's ridin with me. That's comforting and if ya don't know how that feels ya need to try it. Good info going on in this thread, but I agree it needs to be redirected...no hard feelings fellas for the hijack
Nuttin but luv fo ya,
BD
Ahh, so you're a Deist. My mistake - I thought you were saying that you're a Christian...
Steve
I have no idea what that means nor what you are getting at. Either you are taking this way too personally or you are just yanking our chains.
I belive in Christ therefore I am a Christian and I choose to do so in my own manor - exactly as I stated earlier - enough said.
So please lets end all the gruff and be nice. I nonetheless am turning the other cheak just a certain someone tells us to.
Take a peak at Matthew 7:21-23.
And you have a manor? Can I come visit??
Steve
For all the questoners:
what if what if what if what if what if what if what if what if what if what if what if what if what if what if what if what if what if what if what if what if what if what if what if what what if what if what what if what if what if what if what if what if what if what if what if what if what if what if what if what if what if what if what if what if what if what if what if
what if ALL THIS PSYCHOBABBLE is simply designed distraction to waste your time until you die? stop YAKKING about it and start LIVING IT and then you MIGHT be able to understand. If I wanted to REALLY KNOW an egg salad sandwhich, I'd eat it... not ask a million questions about it. Yes, it really is that simple.
It all comes down to "Why are we here?" Well, no human can answer that for you..... EVER. What will you do WHILE you're here? Your choice: TALK or LIVE
...and tha's awl ah have to say bout that.
what if what if what if what if what if what if what if what if what if what if what if what if what if what if what if what if what if what if what if what if what if what if what if what what if what if what what if what if what if what if what if what if what if what if what if what if what if what if what if what if what if what if what if what if what if what if what if
what if ALL THIS PSYCHOBABBLE is simply designed distraction to waste your time until you die? stop YAKKING about it and start LIVING IT and then you MIGHT be able to understand. If I wanted to REALLY KNOW an egg salad sandwhich, I'd eat it... not ask a million questions about it. Yes, it really is that simple.
It all comes down to "Why are we here?" Well, no human can answer that for you..... EVER. What will you do WHILE you're here? Your choice: TALK or LIVE
...and tha's awl ah have to say bout that.
Uhhh...peace bunny anyone?
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