Just because there was a natural hot cycle a million years ago doesn't mean the current one is natural. The science backing AGW, the Green house effect, was conclusively proven over 100 years ago, the only reason it's obscured today is because trillions of dollars have muddied the water. Same with the Covid Vaccine swindle. People were called hesitant, then deniers, and now the major one has been withdrawn from the market because it causes too many side-effects. Money shouts down most truths today. I had a good Doctor, he told me plainly that it might effect my heart, damage it. I said "you're kidding?" Nope he said. Naturally I passed on the jabs. And if anyone tries to shout me down for saying that, Go F*ck Yourself!
EV vehicles
- Thread starter Bumblebee
- Start date
No ICE cars in the near future? Imagine all the sales, 100% Now subtract those that bought because they believed the Green Washing, and subtract those that bought because they though it was the future, that in six years they would have no choice. Subtract too those that believed they would save a fortune on petrol (no mention of electricity costs) Subtract all those from the total and you'd have what the real sales figures would have been without the BS-spin. I think that's what we're seeing today, all the people who would have otherwise bought are actually thinking for themselves now instead of letting the glossy marketing think for them. Word has got out into the mainstream media and it's that media people use to make decisions.
Here's a mainstream story from a month ago Why they failed
It dismisses 30 odd makers as irrelevant now but still sings the praises of the big three and even alludes to the idea that they will be ok in the future. Time will tell...
"Out of the 27 million firms in the U.S., nearly all are privately held. Even among the 5.7 million firms with employees, less than 1 percent of them have shares listed on a U.S. exchange." But we tend to think most big companies are publicly listed, I did, after all they are the ones in the media all the time. Many of the biggest are Private, like Cargil the U.S. food giant, the largest by profit. Private companies are the winners, they always make money but you can't have a piece of the action. Now how many EV companies were Private? None. Nada, not a one. That should have told us something.
TallTom
Registered
A big part of why they stay private is the toxic shorting of stocks that take place in the U.S equity markets. The SEC turns a blind eye to it.
Another area where Musk has my respect, is he brilliantly outmaneuvered the hedge funds trying to bankrupt him. Not many people on the planet can accomplish that. I made stupid gain of $$ realizing that as a stock TSLA made no fundamental sense. It was all about knowing the hedge funds were cooking and the odor smelled of $$.
On a bad day it was up 6%! But it's price was totally disconnected from company value. Musk was cooking the hedge funds brilliantly. And that is why gained such a following. He knows he's not worth more than GM. Or Ford. Or Toyota. Let alone all of them combined.
Private companies don't need to answer to outside stockholders. Or be attacked by hedge funds. More energy put into product.
TallTom
Registered
I'm in healthcare. I know about a dozen or so practitioners that refused to adopt the vaccine. But they had made enough $$ to say off this, I don't need it. They knew the vaccine was riddled with problems. The "greater good" argument, they understood. But the "Do no harm" oath they took was their greater good.
–0——0–
Registered
operational cost are less withe BEV’s that’s not “Green washing” just a fact. How many successful automotive companies are private? Speaking of cargil Cargill deploys electric pusher tug - Charged EVs. OZ the world is changing but I understand your trepidation on moving at the same pace. Without us early adopters the future of this tech would be dead in the water. We have come a long way in the BEV space and continue to make improvements at lightning speed. Every new car release looses money when you factor in development cost. If things were so bad, why are automotive companies still hiring engineers for EV programs? Tom mentioned ford loosing over 100k per EV sold however he forgot to mention Ford is actively hiring for their low cost EV program. I guess it all boils down to what station you choose to get your daily dose of media from.
Governments created the "climate crisis" in order to create a voting platform......if they make all sorts of promises as to how they will fight it, they come off as heroes and garner votes. Christians don't go to church anymore so this is a way to give people some sort of higher calling and a crusade to fight.
There are major profits to be made from this as well.....governments can get into bed with auto manufacturers to force a different technology which creates a work force to develop.....ICE development is pretty much stagnant, there is just so much that can be done to ICE......but create an entirely different platform and all of a sudden there are all kinds of profitable developments, scientists, auto makers, electrical companies, developers will all be lining their pockets with gold.........
Are governments concerned about the future of the planet? Not on your life, governments could care less but they are smart enough to make it look like they do and to get media and environmental/climate scientists on board (with a big money surge) in order to push their agenda.....in 99% of cases, of a person reads it, it's true and will generally buy into anything at that point whether it is reality or not. Huge amounts of funding are being pushed to scientists and EV development....here in Canada, VW, Stellantis and Honda have all received billions in tax payer dollars to build battery plants in Canada where they will be using a large off-shore work force.......and they are smiling all the way to the bank....it doesn't matter to these companies if the EV ideology pans out, they will have their money born off the back of the taxpayer and not out of their coffers......
In the end, it's all about money......not the planet.
There are major profits to be made from this as well.....governments can get into bed with auto manufacturers to force a different technology which creates a work force to develop.....ICE development is pretty much stagnant, there is just so much that can be done to ICE......but create an entirely different platform and all of a sudden there are all kinds of profitable developments, scientists, auto makers, electrical companies, developers will all be lining their pockets with gold.........
Are governments concerned about the future of the planet? Not on your life, governments could care less but they are smart enough to make it look like they do and to get media and environmental/climate scientists on board (with a big money surge) in order to push their agenda.....in 99% of cases, of a person reads it, it's true and will generally buy into anything at that point whether it is reality or not. Huge amounts of funding are being pushed to scientists and EV development....here in Canada, VW, Stellantis and Honda have all received billions in tax payer dollars to build battery plants in Canada where they will be using a large off-shore work force.......and they are smiling all the way to the bank....it doesn't matter to these companies if the EV ideology pans out, they will have their money born off the back of the taxpayer and not out of their coffers......
In the end, it's all about money......not the planet.
TallTom
Registered
I didn't forget to mention it. I have not seen it presented. Nor have I seen the multiple statements made by the Ford CEO that they are pursuing a "low cost" EV. If they were, I'd think they don't need to cut their battery contracts. I don't aspire to be a selective data aggregator. I'm not avoiding data that supports EV in favor of data that detracts from it.
Exactly
The industry looks at the success of Tesla, its exponential growth and its stock price.
What follows is a Kodak moment. As a reminder Kodak was a mighty enterprise, huge, leader in the photographic industry. Eventually they failed dismally, as they could not adapt to change offered from the solid state digital technology.
I have huge electrical motors in my factory, which have seen virtually zero maintenance for 20 years. They start every time I flip a switch, they have never missed a beat. With minimal precaution and maintenance, those will last a lifetime.
An EV is superior to an ICE in every practical engineering aspect, except for the battery. The battery is where it fails. Everyone is working on solid state batteries, some predict as soon as 2027. In the lab, the solid state battery has already been proved and near perfected. The challenge now is to upscale it into mass production.
Once that hurdle is crossed, the EV will eventually be similar to the digital camera replacing the chemical Kodak technology, the infrastructure will eventually follow and the ICE will be only a historic tradition.
So if they get this solid state battery to scale and it works in all climates and environments, at one point do you figure EV equipped with such batteries would be made affordable for a low income family, young person starting out or a student that needs a vehicle? Personal transportations sounds like it is on the road to being a wealthy only folly.....or completely controlled by the government which is something the current administrations of both our countries would absolutely love....
EV are pricing themselves out of reality......the people I outlined above would never be able to afford an EV even a used EV.....
If solid state batteries are the saving grace, they will still need a charging network set up, some in very remote locations where it just may not be feasible to do so.
I'm not sold on this tech....take a look at the strife going on in the world today and wonder how the power grid is holding up in countries affected by war........and if they were all driving EV, how would that look.......Ukraine or Gaza for instance....pretty hard to get the population moving without any power to charge their EV.....fuel is also hard to get but it can be had much easier....
.....and furthermore to my point......once I see a country such as Pakistan or India adopt an EV based transportation mindset, I might (might) be more on board........might......
There was a time that a 60” TV was a real expensive item. Today we can buy one at Walmart for less than what a cart full of groceries cost. Technically, what goes into an ICE engine is a whole lot more complicated, than what goes into an electrical motor. The controls for an ICE is also way more complicated than those needed for an electrical motor.
It follows, that once this entire industry is established, EV’s should be cheaper than ICE’s.
My opinion Bee is that you and I will escape the EV age, but around the year 2100 ICE’s will be found mainly in museums.
Perhaps.....still skeptical though....
There are a lot of variables in order to make this a realty....almost too many.....
However.........one just never knows.....
The battery is only part of the solution though isn't it, the Grid and access to it is the other side of the coin. In nearly every way EV charging stations are economically superior to Gasoline stations. No staff, no deliveries by huge trucks, no multi million dollar investment for buildings, tanks, pumps (yes they are expensive) But the Grid simply cannot handle the pressure, California had to tell EV owners not to charge at one point because they were stressing it. The Grid is old, breaking down, hardly maintained. And when it is rebuilt they use cheap Chinese materials like those towers that blew over in a storm in Texas the other day. One million consumers without power.
Then there is the copper price which has risen a lot and with it thefts of charging cables. How do you secure the cables from theft? How do you build out a grid capable of accommodating all the expected EV demand? They can't even afford to install enough chargers to meet demand now! If they were doing a transition 65 years ago the wealth would be there, but not today. Today the world's governments are so indebted they can barely keep the current infrastructure maintained. Now add in Highways, Bridges, and that's just for cars and trucks. At least the oil infrastructure is in place and meeting demand here and now or we'd be in real trouble. A gas station is expensive, but once built is good for 50 years and more.
In 1903 the Wright Brothers had their first flight. In 1969, 66 years later we put a man on the moon.
I am pretty sure Humans are smart enough to have the grid and solid state batteries sorted out by 2100 which is 77 years from today.
TallTom
Registered
Electric vehicles then didn't have the technology and were outperformed by gas cars easily. Here we are 100 years later.
And that is the assumption that everyone makes, they believe it's our brain power that got us here, where in fact is was the abundant cheap energy in Oil that did it. Not only did it do all the heavy lifting, and provide a feed-stock for everything from fertilizer to plastics to pharmaceuticals, it also freed 90% of the population from farm work so they could sit in offices thinking up new ways to use the oil. Without oil, as well as Coal, you'd have no highway network, no national grid, nothing of consequence.
Last edited:
One thing of interest is that the stalling out of the EV transition gets very little mention in the press. Just a few stories about "bumps in the road". But we're talking about a major roadblock to the government mandated exponential expansion of EV adoption across the planet. It's really the biggest news of 2024, it's like if the interstate highway build out had stopped in its tracks, or the expansion of the nations railways back in the day had come to a halt. A single bridge collapsing after a ship hit gets more press. 1.5 Billion to clean it up and rebuild the bridge and a half a trillion has been wiped off just the US EV makers alone thus far.
Shhhhh, nothing happening here folks, move along, move along.
Just a bump in the road.
3 EV Stocks Nearing Bankruptcy: Time to Cut Your Losses
Shhhhh, nothing happening here folks, move along, move along.
Just a bump in the road.
3 EV Stocks Nearing Bankruptcy: Time to Cut Your Losses
Crude oil as energy only happened in 1892, before that it was discarded as a byproduct.
I believe there will always be the need and use of crude oil, albeit in much smaller quantities than today.
I guess there is a reason why all high speed rail transport today runs on electricity.
In my opinion, the invent of air craft, automobiles were less inhibited in their infancy, resources and funding were more abundant, over the past century plus, we as a race have expended quite a bit of the resources required to get ourselves equipped to support mainstream EV use. There will be a requirement of huge amounts of copper for all aspects of EV implementation as well as a large petroleum resource......I've noted most EVs I have encountered use a lot of plastics in order to save weight.
To add to this, humans have changed our living conditions, we no longer all live in close confines to where we are employed and the daily commute to work has become frankly problematic as our hiways are full of people going back and forth to places of employment.....some people have over an hour commute one way to work each day. The invention of the subdivision has changed how we live and our dependency on automobiles.
I believe a change in how we live and work will be the most significant thing for the future....we need to get less vehicles on the roads and less people travelling......I also believe this will never happen in the scale which will be effective.
When we have people driving to an airport, flying to a port, boarding a cruise ship in a round trip scenario, the carbon footprint of such a trip is vast.....not a second thought is given to this frivolity.....
What is being overlooked are the billions of people who live outside the western realm, these billions of people are operating vehicles which are highly pollutant with no emission controls and for the most part are either 2 stroke or dirty diesel........instead governments of the west are clinging to their EV concept which is no greener than ICE (in my opinion) and ignoring the largest polluters of not only the air, but the ground and water.
Something has to be done to change the way we live as a race and how we move ourselves around the planet.....to me EV is the equivalent to ICE, not an improvement or the green choice as it is currently being touted.
Similar threads
