What is wrong with the world, there's no room for PC in war!
The battle was over the minute the enemy died...
Can we talk about this without turning it into an argument?
- Thread starter Blanca BusaLess
- Start date
The battle was over the minute the enemy died...
Tell that to the enemy in every conflict in the history of man.
Pretty vague comment... My point is simple... The act of war, anything goes was over the minute they had time to unzip their fly. When the camera came on and the laughing started the battle was over, time to reel it in. I do find it interesting however that many defend a soldier that is in battle (rightly so) but when it comes to a cop defending himself or when a cop is on that adrendalin high we constantly hear about how they are trained for that situation and are held constantly to a higher standard... There is no other more trained force than a US soldier, can we not hold them to a higher standard too?
Very good point Captain. I see your point and you make a valid statement/question.
Vague? What the Japanese did to Us and Us to them. What the Germans did to everyone. What the Vietnamese did to Us and Us to them? What the extreme religious factions did to others in the past and present. What about when God ordered Joshua and his people to kill every man, woman and child in Canaan? Get my point?
The camera and politics is why we lost Vietnam and some would say Iraq. It will probably be said about Afghanistan as well. It is also the reason why our police get their butts kicked as often as not. "As long as we have to play by these bulls***t rules and they don't we are going to lose" Sylvester Stallone in Cobra. Sorry to quote his character in this case but that statement is/was spot on!!!!!!
How is pissing on a dead mans head playing by their rules? I think you are missing Cap's point. The battle was over and they celebrated. I'm all for the "Do what needs to be done" to win a conflict,but where does what happened help in winning?
Please don't take what I am saying wrong, I get your reasoning.. However one thing that comes with being the best country on the planet is responsibility. We are to set the standard in conduct, your examples in the post I think prove my point, the Germans, Japanese, the Taliban and terrorist had no dignity or offered no respect to our soldiers when they were alive or when they were dead. We should strive to do better than that, we should be the country that other nations look at and aspire to be, we should never justify our actions that includes any language including "Well you did it first". We are better than this...
Where does walking into a group of unarmed "innocent" people and triggering a bomb help in winning? Boosting the morale of your side while destroying that of your enemy??
I totally understood Cap's point and believe if you go back to early in this thread you would see I do not condone what they did. Neither do I think their careers should end over it.
Where was the outrage when the Somalis drug the 2 Delta snipers thru town naked and did no telling what to their dead bodies?
If pissing on those dead guys gave our guys a few minutes of release from the hell combat has to be then go for it! Next time leave the camera at home. If torturing an enemy soldier will save the life of one of ours...do it and cover your tracks. They will damn sure do it to us and I guarantee you won't see it on the news here.
personally I dont give a chit about those animals! they have no problem cutting off American civilains and soldiers heads and posting it on the internet like cowards so if a few soldiers urinate on a dead Taliban so be it. im sure since he's already dead he wont mind....
And here in my opinion lies the root of the problem... Because people see them as animals you are willing to lower your standards to do something to them that you would not want done to our soldiers.. While we may not be able to do anything about the cowardly acts they commit we can absolutely do something about our attitudes and actions.. Remember they are animals not us...
Honor and Integrity, where is the honor in peeing on the enemy and video taping it?
cap
Not a chance of taking it wrong as we are just discussing an issue.
Our current enemy cannot be defeated with a "we are better than that" approach. Total and complete destruction is the only way. Ask the Russians. Sooner or later to win you have to get your hands dirty and steel bloody. Destroy them physically, mentally and spiritually.
Kind of funny that we are discussing peeing on someone after killing them?? Perfectly fine to kill them but heaven forbid peeing on them.
If you pee on somebody's leg at a party it's college hijinks, if you kill someone stone cold dead it's your job, if you pee on them after you kill them that's a henious act?
This is the promblem with humans. We can piously justify killing and then feel replused by something that's simply insulting and in bad taste.
I'm saddened by their actions, but if you are trained to simply dispatch someone as part of your job - snuff out their life - perhaps it is inevitable that disrespectful actions like this will occur. I'd be truly appalled if they peed on "live" POW just for the fun of it!
This is the promblem with humans. We can piously justify killing and then feel replused by something that's simply insulting and in bad taste.
I'm saddened by their actions, but if you are trained to simply dispatch someone as part of your job - snuff out their life - perhaps it is inevitable that disrespectful actions like this will occur. I'd be truly appalled if they peed on "live" POW just for the fun of it!
I don't think that killing them is necessarily okay, I believe that it is necessary to stop their action, regrettably words do not work. I disagree that they can't be defeated unless we break them in all areas. I don't care about the Russian's, we should look at what they did right and wrong and then make up our own minds on how to defeat them. I don't compare anyone to the United States of America. I do believe that death, fear and education will win this war, not peeing on the enemy. Taking a leak was probably not a strategic move that came down from command so that was not the intent and that was not how it has been taken. The intent of the video was to get a good laugh out of the situation, again... I get why.. I don't condone it, I don't agree with it but I don't think they need to lose everything over it either.
To use the peeing on someone as a hijinks, just look at the intent.... I don't think those soldiers were wanting to drink a few with the dead men on the ground.... Different intent, differnet circumstances, differnet outlook.
GNBRETT
Registered
I didnt say there was any honor in it. I just said I dont give a chit about them and could care less what happens to them after they are dead. were not talking about a country of honorable soldiers, were talking about a bounch of cowards and imo they dont deserve any respect.
they had no problem dragging our soldiers around the streets naked for the world to see when those Black hawks went down in Somalia and hijack planes and fly them into civilian towers in NY city so to compare these animals to other soldiers around the world is a poor comparison.
soldiers who fight with Honor and Integrity deserve Honor and Integrity when they die. all others can eat chit and die for all I care and if a few of our soldiers piss on them or their grave im not gonna lose any sleep over it and I doubt few others will either.
Single post to clarify..... I didn't mean to put any words in your mouth.... I apologize.
Again I agree with you to an extent... I personally just feel that there has to be some limits.. Dead is dead right... Nothing good can come from taking a leak on the guy you just killed... We can see that lots of outrage and contraversy has come from it.. We have now aggrivated other middle eastern countries... So I ask this... with a little restraint we could have avoiding it all, right?
09BusaDrvr
Registered
Randy Shughart and Gary Gordon are my heroes!!!
Sorry, had to throw that in there. I'm going to tell you guys some stuff here...I watched one of my best friends bodies dragged out of a helicopter after it was shot down in Iraq back in '06 and it haunts me every time in creeps in my mind. Since then, I have killed many but never once did I feel like i had to treat them as "animals". I respect their desire to die for their beliefs..and I try to accomodate as many as possible.
I see the point about how some of our own have been treated..believe me I do...but thats what keeps us a civilized nation. Soliders today HAVE to be able to understand the complexities of their actions. They can hate all they want...its a coping mechanism..but they CAN NOT fight off pure hate like this. One of my major concerns is when these guys get home...it becomes very difficult to "turn it off"...as leaders, our ability to keep actions like this under control is for their sake and help them remember what it is to be human.
Hope that makes sense...
On a side note...this is one of the best discussions I've seen on here. Very different views but all very respectful
Sorry, had to throw that in there. I'm going to tell you guys some stuff here...I watched one of my best friends bodies dragged out of a helicopter after it was shot down in Iraq back in '06 and it haunts me every time in creeps in my mind. Since then, I have killed many but never once did I feel like i had to treat them as "animals". I respect their desire to die for their beliefs..and I try to accomodate as many as possible.
I see the point about how some of our own have been treated..believe me I do...but thats what keeps us a civilized nation. Soliders today HAVE to be able to understand the complexities of their actions. They can hate all they want...its a coping mechanism..but they CAN NOT fight off pure hate like this. One of my major concerns is when these guys get home...it becomes very difficult to "turn it off"...as leaders, our ability to keep actions like this under control is for their sake and help them remember what it is to be human.
Hope that makes sense...
On a side note...this is one of the best discussions I've seen on here. Very different views but all very respectful
Randy Shughart and Gary Gordon are my heroes!!!
Sorry, had to throw that in there. I'm going to tell you guys some stuff here...I watched one of my best friends bodies dragged out of a helicopter after it was shot down in Iraq back in '06 and it haunts me every time in creeps in my mind. Since then, I have killed many but never once did I feel like i had to treat them as "animals". I respect their desire to die for their beliefs..and I try to accomodate as many as possible.
I see the point about how some of our own have been treated..believe me I do...but thats what keeps us a civilized nation. Soliders today HAVE to be able to understand the complexities of their actions. They can hate all they want...its a coping mechanism..but they CAN NOT fight off pure hate like this. One of my major concerns is when these guys get home...it becomes very difficult to "turn it off"...as leaders, our ability to keep actions like this under control is for their sake and help them remember what it is to be human.
Hope that makes sense...
On a side note...this is one of the best discussions I've seen on here. Very different views but all very respectful
Thank you for your service... we appreciate the freedom that you have provided for us..
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