Why with new pads, the lever is further away from the handlebar?

[IG.]

I noticed this during my previous brake pad changes as well. Keeping the adjuster in the same position and squeezing the lever with the same effort: with older (worn and thinner) pads, the lever stops closer to the handlebar than with a new pad.

I like to have it far away from the handlebar. So, for the new pad I set it to 2. As the pad wears off, I set it to 1, but then it wears off even further and I run out of adjustmens (there is no 'zero' position).

I can only attribute this to the fact that when the pads gets thinner, the caliper pistons go out of the cliper more, thus increasing the inner volume of the calipers. More volume requires more lever travel to achieve the same effort.

Any ideas how to negate this effect?

Having the lever stop closer to the handlebar than I like is one negative side effect. Perhaps an aftermarket lever can have more adjustments.

Another negative side effect is that the lever needs to travel more to achieve the same braking effort - which changes the feel of the brakes.

Oh, I'v had steel braided lines and HH pads for the past number of years.

 

[kromdom]

Perhaps an aftermarket lever can have more adjustments.

Most definitely....I am very happy with the ASV shorties on my bike.

 

[IG.]

bump! Anyone with explanation why?

I rode today first time with the new pads - the difference is very noticeable.

 

[Charlesbusa]

It is the pad thickness. You can make up for this by adding more brake fluid, if you can.

When I was doing a brake pad change in Miller, I couldn't get the new pads in the caliper on the rotor. They just wouldn't open far enough. So we opened the reservoir cap, soaked out some of the fluid, and they went over the rotor no problem. This happened because I had bled the brakes and topped off the reservoir when the pads were worn and thin.

So if you can add more brake fluid, it will push your lever further out. But you'll have to take fluid out to put in new pads when the time comes.

 

[IG.]

Charles,

I see what you are saying. But what you describe is different: you simply couldn't push the pistons in because the fluid had nowhere to go.

My case is different. Actually, it doesn't matter how much fluid you have in the reservoir (as long as air doesn't get in the system). I might as well open the reservoir cover, and my situation does not change - with new pads the lever travels a lot less before stopping vs. used ones.

Another thing: when I took the old pads out, I had to push the pistons in so that the new thicker pads would fit in. Once installed, the very first squeeze of the lever was all the way to the bar - like there is no fluid in the system. After a few squeezes, the lever started stopping as it normally does - all this is because whatever fluid I pushed in the reservoir while installing the new pads, got pushed back in the system until the new pads hit the rotor. So, adding more fluid would do nothing.

 

[k03gsxr750]

The piston in your caliper going back to a point where it pushes the pad to the disc is what you felt on the first squeeze. After that point the piston is at the end of its travel and the next bunch of fluid down from the cyclinder keeps it there, meaning it doesn't go all the way back to where it was pushed when you set the pads. The travel distance won't change as much with a different lever with more adjustment then it would if you went with a different size master cyclinder. You could go with a larger cyclinder that took less travel to make the same volume of liquid push through the system, then set your lever accordingly.

You are correct that adding fluid at this point will do nothing for you. But to answer your question, what you are feeling is very typical for how brakes feel after a set of new pads. Lever travel is different, as well power you get from each "pull".

 

[KvHotDog4]

It is the pad thickness. You can make up for this by adding more brake fluid, if you can.

Thats what I was going to say

 

[micbusathens]

Pads condition has nothing to do with your lever travel(brake fluid supports these attritions).Lever travel always depends from the piston travel and always has to be analogically equal.Some factors ...like dirty pistons....do not permit them to return back a bit after a lever release , so they remain closer to the rotor than the usual. So....if pistons travel is limited then levers is too. Clean pistons when they're on their outer possible position real well before you press them back in

 

[IG.]

Pads condition has nothing to do with your lever travel(brake fluid supports these attritions).Lever travel always depends from the piston travel and always has to be analogically equal.Some factors ...like dirty pistons....do not permit them to return back a bit after a lever release , so they remain closer to the rotor than the usual. So....if pistons travel is limited then levers is too. Clean pistons when they're on their outer possible position real well before you press them back in

This makes sense. However, this means that when I have new pads, and the pistons are almost inside the caliper, and as you say the dirtiest part of the pistons holds the pistons back from retracting slightly back into the caliper, thus reducing the amount of travel I experience - that's what I want to have. If I clean them, they pistons will retract more into the caliper when I release the lever, and as a result the next time I squeeze it, the clean pistons need to travel more. Not what I want.

If anything, I want the inner part of the piston's wall to be as dirty as the outer part, so it retracts less when the lever is released, and so that the next time the lever is squeezed there will be less travel involved.

Something tells me that what I experience is not caused by the dirty pistons. Still have a feeling it has something to do with the increased volume of fluid inside the caliper once the pads are worn and as a result the pistons are more out.

 

[blusmbl]

You are correct. Adding additonal fluid will do nothing.

It's a simple hydraulic system- to move the caliper pistons out a given amount requires a certain amount of lever travel. when the pads are worn, the caliper pistons have to travel a greater distance to exert the same force on the rotors, so the lever has to be moved further to stop in the same manner.

Due to flex/runout/vibration, the pads will always kick back from the rotor while riding or driving. So the more worn the pad is, the further it has to travel, and the further you have to squeeze the lever.

 

[IG.]

Thanks all for the input! Something to think about.

 

[Charlesbusa]

Hah, shows what I know

Thought I was on to something, guess not

I need to go back to the track

 

[jellyrug]

Pads condition has nothing to do with your lever travel(brake fluid supports these attritions).Lever travel always depends from the piston travel and always has to be analogically equal.Some factors ...like dirty pistons....do not permit them to return back a bit after a lever release , so they remain closer to the rotor than the usual. So....if pistons travel is limited then levers is too. Clean pistons when they're on their outer possible position real well before you press them back in

I agree. With high quality brake calipers, the piston seal will always maintain a very small clearance between rotor (disc) and pad. This clearance will remain the same irrespective of pistion position. (Pad wear thickness)
With lower quality brake calipers, you may end up having drag (no clearance) at certain piston positions and clearance in other positions as your pads wear.

With braking heat and wear, this is actually very difficult to do, the MotoGP bikes spend thousands on brake design and materials to try and achieve a perfect world.

 

[BIG GUY]

I love my ASV C5 Shorties. They have tons of adjustments.