Taken From the Language Thread





Dino

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#1
Read First Please Read the Article First.



Mass. – A white police sergeant who arrested renowned black scholar Henry Louis Gates Jr. said Thursday he's disappointed President Barack Obama said officers acted "stupidly," despite acknowledging he didn't know all the facts.

Sgt. James Crowley responded to Gates' home near Harvard University last week to investigate a report of a burglary and demanded Gates show him identification. Police say Gates at first refused and accused the officer of racism.

Gates was charged with disorderly conduct. The charge was dropped Tuesday, and Gates has since demanded an apology from Crowley.

Obama was asked about the arrest of Gates, who is his friend, at the end of a nationally televised news conference on health care Wednesday night.

"I think it's fair to say, number one, any of us would be pretty angry," Obama said. "Number two, that the Cambridge police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home. And number three — what I think we know separate and apart from this incident — is that there is a long history in this country of African-Americans being stopped by law enforcement disproportionately, and that's just a fact."

In radio interviews Thursday morning, Crowley maintained he had done nothing wrong in arresting Gates.

"I DON'T support the president of the United States 110 percent. I think he was way off base wading into a local issue without knowing all the facts as he himself stated before he made that comment," Crowley told WBZ-AM. "I guess a friend of mine would support my position, too."

Crowley did not immediately respond to messages

Gates has said he was "outraged" by the arrest. He said the white officer walked into his home without his permission and only arrested him as the professor followed him to the porch, repeatedly demanding the sergeant's name and badge number because he was unhappy over his treatment.

"This isn't about me; this is about the vulnerability of black men in America," Gates said. . >WHY DO ALL BLACK PEOPLE WHEN IT COMES TO LAW THAT THEY ALWAYS USE THE RACE CARD CAN WE MOVE PASS THIS EVER

He said the incident made him realize how vulnerable poor people and minorities are "to capricious forces like a rogue policeman, and this man clearly was a rogue policeman."

Crowley, 42, said he won't apologize. And his union has expressed "full and unqualified" support for him.

On Thursday, he told WBZ that Gates verbally assailed him. The police report says Crowley asked Gates to talk outside, to which he responded "Yeah, I'll speak with your mama outside."

"There was a lot of yelling, there was references to my mother, something you woulnd't expect from anybody that should be grateful that you're there investigating a report of a crime in progress let alone a Harvard University professor," Crowley said Thursday.

Fellow officers, black and white, say he is well-liked and respected on the force. Crowley was a campus police officer at Brandeis University in July 1993 when he administered CPR trying to save the life of former Boston Celtics player Reggie Lewis. Lewis, who was black, collapsed and died during an off-season workout.

Gates' supporters maintain his arrest was a case of racial profiling which again is unture. Officers were called to the home by a woman who said she saw "two black males with backpacks" trying to break in the front door. Gates has said he arrived home from an overseas trip and the door was jammed.

The president said federal officials need to continue working with local law enforcement "to improve policing techniques so that we're eliminating potential bias."

"What I think we know separate and apart from this incident is that there's a long history in this country of African-Americans being stopped by law enforcement disproportionately," Obama said. "That's just a fact." > ( no that is not that fact the fact is that black people have used this race card so long and have got away with it so long that we need to put a stop to it. All people are the same no matter what your color is .

Gov. Deval Patrick, who is black, said he was troubled and upset over the incident. Cambridge Mayor Denise Simmons, who also is black, has said she spoke with Gates and apologized on behalf of the city, and a statement from the city called the July 16 incident "regrettable and unfortunate." ( AGAIN HERE PROVES MY POINT A BLACK MAYOR WHO WASN'T THERE IS TAKING SIDES AGIAN THIS IS SO SICK FOR LAW INFORCEMENT .


Police supporters charge that Gates, director of Harvard's W.E.B. Du Bois Institute for African and African American Research, was responsible for his own arrest by overreacting.

Black students and professors at Harvard have complained for years about racial profiling by Cambridge and campus police. Harvard commissioned an independent committee last year to examine the university's race relations after campus police confronted a young black man who was using tools to remove a bike lock, Yeah but if they didn't stop who ever it was weather black or some other color then they would say because it was owned by a black man there comment would be the police didn't care this is a lose lose position . The man worked at Harvard and owned the bike atleast he owened and it wasn't someone trying to steal it. How about some credit for the officer who was just doing his job

.

"That is part of being a police officer in a democratic society," Weinblatt said. "The point is that the police sergeant needs to be the bigger person, take the higher road, be more professional."
 

Dino

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#2
Ok my take: THis is NOT a case of racial profiling. I see it as grand standing by an individual.

From wikipedia: Racial profiling is the inclusion of racial or ethnic characteristics in determining whether a person is considered likely to commit a particular type of crime or an illegal act or to behave in a "predictable" manner.


ACLU Racial Profiling Definition

"Racial Profiling" refers to the discriminatory practice by law enforcement officials of targeting individuals for suspicion of crime based on the individual's race, ethnicity, religion or national origin. Criminal profiling, generally, as practiced by police, is the reliance on a group of characteristics they believe to be associated with crime. Examples of racial profiling are the use of race to determine which drivers to stop for minor traffic violations (commonly referred to as "driving while black or brown"), or the use of race to determine which pedestrians to search for illegal contraband.

The incident in the article in no way meets the definitions above.

Could the incident been handled better on both sides, sure. Did it escalate un-necessarly yes, should both sides appoligise, definately.

I would like to hear from the LEOs on here about this.
 
B

Blues

#3
The news report I read, said the cop responded to a possible B&E and demanded ID from the only person on scene....and he refused, then got very defensive.

Sounds like he was pushing his luck.

I'm Caucasian, but because of my appearance I look suspect to police, I take that into account when dealing with LEO unless I want a fight.

Bottom line...If the man wants police policy/actions to change you take that up with LAWMAKERS, not with a cop. He should know that if he's so educated.

Rob
 

skydivr

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#4
Too bad he didn't get tasered...Black or White, don't smart off to the Police. The LEO even TAUGHT racial profiling for the academy!

Remember that recent story where the old woman (white btw) got Tasered by a LEO because she was belligerant at a traffic stop? She certainly acted like the innocent victim until the dash video was released....
 
#5
Well I suppose I will jump in here before this thread gets shut down.
I agree that this could be considered as not racial profiling, I believe there are racial overtones nonetheless. The question I gotta ask is if the officer would have demanded id from a person doing the exact same thing, in the same place, of the same age but Caucasian? I don't know the answer. Only the officer and God know the truth. I do know from personal experience that people in general, and law enforcement in particular, have been known to view non-white people engaged in a given activity with a higher level of suspicion than whites.
That this happened is symptomatic of several things:
The mindset that non-whites are more likely to be criminals.
This is a stereotype propagated by many different sources, for many different reasons. I don't have the energy to list them all, but it is certain that some segments of society have an advantage to gain by perpetuating this fallacy.

The lack of community policing.
Neighborhood cops that know the local folks are being replaced my mindless robots who do exactly as told by superiors without regard to morality. Had this officer been familiar with the home and its residents, he would have recognized that this was the owner, and probably asked if he needed assistance rather than suspecting him of wrongdoing.
The right of law enforcement to demand identification. Nowhere is there a law that says I have to carry a state issued id document while at home, or walking down the street minding my own business. I am required to identify myself when asked, but stating my name is all that is necessary. Granted it is in my best interest to have an id with me, but that doesn't give anybody the right to demand it.
Innocent until proven guilty.
Saying that anyone, in this case a Black man, should be subservient to law enforcement's demands when having done nothing wrong is akin to telling a woman not to wear a revealing outfit because she may get sexually assaulted.
Just my .02, not knocking LEO's as a group, or this one in particular.
 
#6
The whole thing got heated. They both lost their tempers. The cop should've just let the upset man be. If he'd had a complaint, his department would have had his back anyway.

This incident brings a lot of attention to the problem of racial profiling. Unfortunately, we have a long way to go before it is a non-issue.
 

dadofthree

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#8
Well I suppose I will jump in here before this thread gets shut down.
I agree that this could be considered as not racial profiling, I believe there are racial overtones nonetheless. The question I gotta ask is if the officer would have demanded id from a person doing the exact same thing, in the same place, of the same age but Caucasian? I don't know the answer. Only the officer and God know the truth. I do know from personal experience that people in general, and law enforcement in particular, have been known to view non-white people engaged in a given activity with a higher level of suspicion than whites.
That this happened is symptomatic of several things:
The mindset that non-whites are more likely to be criminals.
This is a stereotype propagated by many different sources, for many different reasons. I don't have the energy to list them all, but it is certain that some segments of society have an advantage to gain by perpetuating this fallacy.

The lack of community policing.
Neighborhood cops that know the local folks are being replaced my mindless robots who do exactly as told by superiors without regard to morality. Had this officer been familiar with the home and its residents, he would have recognized that this was the owner, and probably asked if he needed assistance rather than suspecting him of wrongdoing.
The right of law enforcement to demand identification. Nowhere is there a law that says I have to carry a state issued id document while at home, or walking down the street minding my own business. I am required to identify myself when asked, but stating my name is all that is necessary. Granted it is in my best interest to have an id with me, but that doesn't give anybody the right to demand it.
Innocent until proven guilty.
Saying that anyone, in this case a Black man, should be subservient to law enforcement's demands when having done nothing wrong is akin to telling a woman not to wear a revealing outfit because she may get sexually assaulted.
Just my .02, not knocking LEO's as a group, or this one in particular.
Sir, did you read the article. The Officer was sent to a possible break in involving two black males as reported by a neighbor. The professor should have complied, he would have received an apology at that point and an explanation and both parties would have laughed about it, but the officer would have walked away embarrassed.
 

dadofthree

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#9
The whole thing got heated. They both lost their tempers. The cop should've just let the upset man be. If he'd had a complaint, his department would have had his back anyway.

This incident brings a lot of attention to the problem of racial profiling. Unfortunately, we have a long way to go before it is a non-issue.
What does race have to do with this issue, other than it being thrown out there by someone who was ignorant of the facts before he spoke. ???
 

dadofthree

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#10
In a court of law which this isn't, it's an internet forum. Jurors must place themselves in the shoes of the officer at the event, in the same circumstances. You can't sit around and second guess the heck out of a human being and decide oh well he could have done things better.

I personally try to make sure I don't act unless I'm 100% sure of myself. If there's any doubt, it's a no go. However in the situation as described in the article which may or may not be factual or have all facts represented. I would have detained the subject until I could identify him. Detaining is different from arrest.

Really and truly the professor should have complied. I've had people ride with me and they can't believe how nasty and rude people can be to law enforcement.
 
#15
Blah blah blah blah blah blah...

Someone was just grandstanding because his friend runs the counrty right now. It had nothing to do with right or wrong.
 
#16
TruWrecks I am with you. That professor refused to show id and he was arrested for it. The officer did not know who he was and was on scene for a B&E being committed by 2 black males. He fit the description.
I have done ride alongs with my brother and see how he is treated. People complain that their are not enough cops, but when the cops do their jobs they complain that they are too harsh.
Here in the state of Arizona it is a misdemeanor if you do not have proof of id. If a cop stops you, you need to be able to show proof of who you are.
Obama does need to stay out of it. Did he talk to the officer before he made the comment. Probably not. He only heard one side of the story and that was his friends side of the story.
 
#17
What would have happened if the Cop actually came across an individual who WAS breaking into the house, but didn't ask for ID and just believed the guy was the owner? Then he would have been sued for not doing his job and allowing a house to be broken into. What else is a cop to do when you have a "Witness" standing outside saying the guys are inside. Honestly its surprising the cop didnt pull his weapon before he entered the house.
 

semi

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#18
You have to have state issued identification any time you are in a public area where I live also. That isn't the point of this story though. Here, we have a LEO trying to do his job and receiving no cooperation from the homeowner he had been called to protect. Not knowing who the gentleman was, he had every right to demand some form of identification. The color of his skin makes absolutely no difference.
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#19
Semi, I agree with you. The officer did everything he was suppose too. The professor did not produce and refused to show the officer his id. He was arressted till his identity could be proven.
 

Dino

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#20
You have to have state issued identification any time you are in a public area where I live also. That isn't the point of this story though. Here, we have a LEO trying to do his job and receiving no cooperation from the homeowner he had been called to protect. Not knowing who the gentleman was, he had every right to demand some form of identification. The color of his skin makes absolutely no difference.
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Semi I completely agree, almost, in this case the color of his skin is important because the 911 caller stated that 2 black men were breaking in.
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