Minnesota School Shooting

[Mr Brown]

Vabusa is absolutly right on!!    More gun control laws are not the answer. Are all you advocates so nieve that you really believe gun control laws will keep guns away from criminals.  COME ON!!   Put the responsibility where it belongs, on the parents!   No doubt, this is a tragedy of the worst kind, but he just as easily could have used a chain saw for instance.  Maybe we should outlaw chain saws, YA THINK!!!   End of rant!

You missed my point. I said that we have a problem. Of course a kid could kill people with a chainsaw, a pencil, a car or many other things. The point that I was trying to get across is that guns, and more particularly, a lack of responsible gun ownership makes the killing easier. Do I think that my access to guns should be made a little more difficult in order to make it harder for these types of tragedies to happen? The answer is YES, without a doubt. That's why my guns are unloded,in a locked safe, where my kids or nephews, nieces, friend's kids whoever can't accidentally get to them. Does this mean that I can't get to them immediately if the need arises? NO, it takes 30-45 secs. to undo the lock, and the dog can handle unwanted company for that long. Anything that I can do to spare someone else the pain those kid's loved ones are feeling I am willing to do.

 

[Mr Brown]

Now that we have a profile for these kinds of killers:

Why aren't we acting to control them BEFORE they commit the crimes?

How come all this information is coming out AFTER the incident?

Why aren't parents, teacher and students being taught to recognize the symptoms and report them to the authorities?

Why aren't kids being taught to reach out to these people instead of ridiculing them?

I could not agree with you more. That's why I started this thread, to vent my frustration with the whole situation.

 

[VaBusa]

Exactly DAB -

There are always tons of people crawling out of the woodwork to say "yeah, he was 'different' or 'quiet', 'kept to himself'". And they all seem to have a sense of loner about them, 'the picked on kid in school'...people knew, and I bet none of them are surprised that he just went off...

I agree, it falls on society, and ESPECIALLY parents, to clue in to these traits and get help before it's too late...some kids are trying to "find themselves"; some truly need intervention...

And this does all ring true of the Columbine shootings...makes you want to keep your kids at home...

 

[GD4GVN]

The kid's father committed suicide four years earlier, that's why he was being raised by his grandparents.  His grandfather was a cop, who he likked, and he used his grandfathers guns to kil everyone else including himself.

That kid could have killed just as many or even more people by waiting until school let out, then mow everyone down with a car.  Should car's be banned if it happened that way?

People kill people.  A gun is just the first weapon of choice that comes to mind when someone bent on destruction chooses because it's easier to pull a trigger from a distance.

Reservations are soverign nations, which means laws in the rest of our country do not apply there.

This is the attitude that I can't comprehend. Surely you can see that there is a problem with the ready access to guns. Simply saying "People kill people" is much like the ostrich hiding its head in the sand. I know that people kill people, but ready and unsupervised access to guns makes it far more simple. As I said, I am not suggesting taking guns away from people, or making it impossible to obtain them, we all know that if you take guns from law abiding people, the only ones left with guns will be criminals. All I'm saying is that to ignore the fact that there is a problem by saying "Guns don't kill, people kill" is foolish. There IS a problem in this country with guns, I happen to agree with 'da blonde, that the solution lies in parenting skills, but the people who seem to think that there is no problem are the ones who worry me the most.
"

The "easy access to a gun" was his grandfather which he killed was a COP! Guns do not kill people, people do kill people, if you belive the other way you might as well join suit with the people sueing cigarett companies because they smoked and now have cancer. Mcdonalds has to label their coffee as HOT!!!!!!!!! come on!!!!!!!! People always want to blame something or someone else for their problems. People need to take responsibility for their actions, This includes raising children. When you and a a lady goto bed together you and her both know what could happen, if she does get pregnant be a man and raise YOUR children. I know this kids dad killed himself so obviously he neede some help too just like his son was in need of some help, but this nation has taken a turn for the worst, with its views of morality and right and wrong. We should tolerate this and tolerate that, some of this stuff even a decade ago would not have been allowed.People need to take responsibility for their actions and we all need to look at where this country as a whole is heading.

I will get off my soap box now, sorry.

 

[Lazerblade]

It's not that we don't have enough Gun Laws in our country (USA) because we do. It's that fact that they are seldom enforced and the price for breaking a gun law is seldom high. It should be that if you are convicted of robbing a store you get whatever sentence but if you are caught robbing a store with a gun, just automatically add 5 to 10 years to it.

In our country, no one is held responsible any more. It's always someone else's fault. Children are seldom brought up to feel that they are going to take responsibility for any thing they do. As long as our civilized society continues to move in this direction, I feel it's going to get a lot worse before it gets better.

So, I am going to have tons of ammo ready for when it goes down around me.

On a serious note. I am a law enforcement officer and I have no problem with legal citizens having a concealed weapon if they have taken a safety course and passed the background check. In fact, I think Gang Bangers would think twice about beating someone up on a bus if they thought half the bus could be armed. But, if you break a law with a gun, you should be slammed so hard that you won't see daylight for years.

Just my opinion.

 

[Mr Brown]

When you and a a lady goto  bed together you and her both know what could happen, if she does get pregnant be a man and raise YOUR children.

It's so easy to get on your soapbox and rant. I'm guilty of this myself. It becomes EVERYONE'S problem when NO ONE will take responsibility. It's easy to say " When you and a a lady goto bed together you and her both know what could happen, if she does get pregnant be a man and raise YOUR children. " but the reality of the situation is THAT DOESN'T ALWAYS HAPPEN. I would rather accept the responsibility of raising someone else's child than have to carry the guilt of the results of not doing it. "It takes a village to raise a child" is not just a cute little saying, in my opinion it's something to live by.

 

[GD4GVN]

I under stand this, but it goes back to what I said about responsibility. People need to be taught growning up that YOU have to pay for YOUR actions. I agree when someone does not take care of their children people should step up and do it but that is problem no one wants to except responsibilty for their actions.

 

[mobusa]

Vabusa is absolutly right on!!    More gun control laws are not the answer. Are all you advocates so nieve that you really believe gun control laws will keep guns away from criminals.  COME ON!!   Put the responsibility where it belongs, on the parents!   No doubt, this is a tragedy of the worst kind, but he just as easily could have used a chain saw for instance.  Maybe we should outlaw chain saws, YA THINK!!!   End of rant!

You missed my point. I said that we have a problem. Of course a kid could kill people with a chainsaw, a pencil, a car or many other things. The point that I was trying to get across is that guns, and more particularly, a lack of responsible gun ownership makes the killing easier. Do I think that my access to guns should be made a little more difficult in order to make it harder for these types of tragedies to happen? The answer is YES, without a doubt. That's why my guns are unloded,in a locked safe, where my kids or nephews, nieces, friend's kids whoever can't accidentally get to them. Does this mean that I can't get to them immediately if the need arises? NO, it takes 30-45 secs. to undo the lock, and the dog can handle unwanted company for that long. Anything that I can do to spare someone else the pain those kid's loved ones are feeling I am willing to do.

We are not as far apart as one would think.  I too keep my guns unloaded and locked up.  However that is because I am responsible!! ( and apparently so are you)  More Goverment intervention and laws rarely make people more responsible. Only education and can do that. That is my point!  Keep a good thought for all involved.

 

[MrGxr]

In our country, no one is held responsible any more.  It's always someone else's fault.  Children are seldom brought up to feel that they are going to take responsibility for any thing they do.  As long as our civilized society continues to move in this direction, I feel it's going to get a lot worse before it gets better.  

This is where it all stems from.... as children they are no punished for doing something wrong cause then some stranger takes the parent or gaurdian to police for abuse. we have decided that yelling at a child in public can be abuse... what the fugg!!!! Kids these days do no know what being responsible is, what are the consequences of my actions... NOTHING cause nothing ever happens when I do things wrong.
Gun control: holding steady and squeezing the trigger not pullilng, thats gun control. Not telling me I have to wait 7 days for my clearance to purchase a firearm.
Kids and gun control: teach them what a firearm is, show them how it works, how to clean it, and then how to fire the weapon. Explain what it is and what happens when it is not used properly. introduction and instruction is the way to go with children and firearms, not restrictions and banning. Hell, remember when you are told not to do something, you want to do it that much more.

 

[Turbo-Torch]

Great post VA.

In a way I feel sorry for the kid as his life was screwed up from a young age and he fell through the cracks. Not sure who to blame on this one, how do you know that some kid is going to go off the deep end?
Eh...I guess the final blame can always be placed on the coward father that removed himself from his 13 year old sons life.

These shootings are getting so common place that they barely make the news anymore. I read a small clip about this one last night on MSNBC and in todays paper there was a small blurb about it...yet an injured pitbull found in a dumpster made the front page with huge pictures. Also why are all the first hits on Google news out of Australia, UK, India ect.

I dunno sometimes I think it may be better if the news media didn't mention anything since it seems like when one incident happens more will surely follow. Within the past week we've had the nut in Georgia and the other in Wisconsin and now this kid.

I also believe that shows on this subject fuel the fire in unstable kids.
A day before Thanksgiving we had a kid go crazy in the local high school. He walked into Spanish class, pulled out a machete and tree saw and started hacking up kids. My niece was in another classroom and she watched one of her friends run by spraying out blood. Some major injuries to 7 students but thank God nobody was killed. This kid claimed "God told him to do it".
May or may not have anything to do with it but that week CSI aired the episode where the school bully got shot.

Now my 16 year old niece refuses to go back to that school.

I'm also a registered gun owner but I feel that guns do make it easier to kill. If that kid had used a gun that day there would have been many deaths. Something tells me though, if he wanted a gun he would have got one.
It all comes down to parenting and giving a kid a stable life.

 

[warbrown]

My opinion, and it's probably not worth much...

There is a problem with guns in this country, but I truly do believe an even bigger problem exists at home...kids being raised by single parents, by grandparents that are out of touch with how society is today for a kid, by aunts and uncles...misguided kids, loose morals, peer pressure...

Seems that the kids that do this kind of thing already had issues swirling around their lives...they've led a pretty sad youth, have been tormented both from outside as well as within themselves.  From what little I've seen, this kid's father committed suicide a year or so back, his Mom is in a home with brain damage...no excuse for him to go on a rampage, but he clearly needed some guidance and help to get through life and society failed him.  I doubt his problems just popped up yesterday, so someone in and around his life dropped the ball...

The gun, in this case, was simply a tool, a by product he decided to use to end so much bad in his world...

Are guns too accessible to kids?  Sure, but what % of these guns are actually obtained from family members that simply don't lock 'em up?  

I'm not a fan of guns, but I don't think taking them away from U.S. citizens will curb this kind of problem in any way.  I know that if someone wants a gun, they'll get one...illegally or otherwise, just like drugs...

So, America needs to stop blaming guns, peers, the kids and start raising families again...start instilling some moral and ethical values in our children...if you are going to procreate, better be prepared to actually do a little work instead of blaming the schools, teachers, the police and your kids' friends for your kid's problems...if your kid has problems, better do your BEST to get them help before their lives become a lot of nothingness...

Is that easier said than done?  I don't think it would be too hard to give a kid a loving family to grow up in...to teach him/her right from wrong, to respect others, to have good friends close by, to feel free to come to you and talk about problems...I think it's easier to raise your kids in a loving home over always fighting them over every little thing you don't like...parenting is very difficult, but it's the most important job PARENTS have...remember that, and hopefully, over time, society will begin to see less "rogue" kids, more kids taking on the responsibility of their own destiny...

This kid was likely on a collision course with some kind of disaster...it's a complete shame he took down innocent lives on his way out, and I can only imagine what the families of those lost are feeling today...it's not the first time, nor will it be the last...

Nicely said Michelle.   It's easy to point the finger at "the gun" as the  root of all this evil.   Easy to do, but wrong.   Ok... lets take away our guns and watch our crime rate soar like happened in Australia and  the UK.

This book should be required reading for anyone in favor of disarming law abiding citizens.   I got my wife to read it after I'd finished, and she completely reversed her opinion after analyzing and weighing the facts.  I've since taught her to shoot, and she has her own Ladysmith 38 safely tucked away in the bedroom gun safe.

 

[Mr Brown]

I think a lot of you guys have misunderstood me. I am not advocating gun control, just gun safety. I truly believe as many of you have said that education and parenting skills are the most important ingredient. I think as was stated elsewhere in this thread, (I forgot who though) we should have stricter punishment for careless gun owners.

 

[shenoyp]

+1 VaBusa

 

[BA BUSA]