Military Current and Ex * Fixt Rev.*

[Dino]

Please read the following article:

Military leaders meet with manufacturers on motorcycle safety

Motorcycle fatalities among America's service personnel continue to be a cause for concern with officials in three military branches.

According to the Air Force Times, the secretaries of the Army, Navy and Air Force met with four major motorcycle makers January 15, 2009 to discuss motorcycle safety and how sport bikes are marketed to service members.
Military personnel already have stricter motorcycle regulations than civilians. To take a motorcycle on base, riders must have at least passed the beginners’ course offered by the Motorcycle Safety Foundation. They must also wear helmets, regardless of state law.

The Department of Defense mandates rider training and specifies an MSF course for all military personnel who ride, and the U.S. Navy now requires that all personnel who own sport bikes take the MSF Military Motorcycle RiderCourse after they have completed the MSF Basic RiderCourse.

The MSF Military Motorcycle RiderCourse was developed in close collaboration with the U.S. Navy and U.S. Army Safety Center and is now available to all branches of the Department of Defense.

Developed to address the increasing number of military personnel who are involved in sport bike crashes, the MSF Military Motorcycle RiderCourse is a “next-levelâ€￾ training course for military riders who have completed the MSF Basic RiderCourse. The one-day course consists of approximately three hours of classroom interactive lessons and four hours of on-cycle range time, and is taught by RiderCoaches who receive additional training and special MSF certification to teach the course.

"The goal is to provide riders with a way to further develop personal riding strategies and decision-making abilities to help them minimize their risk," said Dr. Ray Ochs, MSF director of training systems.

The classroom segment of the new safety course focuses on the behavioral aspects of riding such as attitude and personal risk assessment, and includes discussions about braking proficiency, cornering techniques, traction management, and characteristics unique to sport bikes. The hands-on range session builds on these topics by providing riders the opportunity to develop and improve skills in braking, cornering and swerving.

A student pocket takeaway booklet, the "Sport Bike Survival Guide," will be provided to all military personnel who participate in the course. Written by accomplished sport bike riding instructor Nick Ienatsch, with a foreword from Superbike Champion Ben Spies, it includes riding techniques, street strategies, handy reference materials, quick tips, and additional resources for those seeking to further their knowledge and skills.

“We have so many cases these days with sailors and Marines who buy sport bikes that are really intended for racing purposes as their first motorcycle,â€￾ Navy Secretary Donald Winter said in a January 12 interview with Military Times reporters and editors. “We’ve had cases with people who have crashed them causing disabling injuries and in a few cases, death, just after a few hours on those motorcycles.

“People need to understand what they’re buying and that there are alternatives,â€￾ Winter said.

“I believe that it is appropriate to expect that the manufacturers will help in explaining that and making clear the [full range] of products that they have available, and more appropriately, if you will, target the market that is represented by our young sailors and Marines.â€￾

According to the Air Force Times, a statement released by Winter’s spokeswoman after the meeting said the service secretaries, motorcycle executives and the Motorcycle Safety Foundation discussed “the responsible marketing of sports bikes to military members, as well as ways to educate riders about safe riding.â€￾
“We anticipate additional meetings to further explore ways to reduce sports bike injuries and protect the lives of our service members,â€￾ it said.

 

[Salty]

Darn you Tom Cruise for riding that Ninja in Top Gun all those years ago, you have lead a whole generation of military youths to wanting to ride sportbikes and do wheelies so they can get the girl...

 

[Dino]

Ok first, sorry about the wacky spelling of Military. I am all thumbs.

I colored a couple sections because they point to the fact that DoD is targeting Sportbikes.

Here where I have a concern. DoD has a policy that all military members riding on or off installations must wear ATGATT including bright and reflective clothing. I live near one of the largest Naval installations (if no the largest) on the east coast and I rarely see military members riding ATGATT unless it it to or from an installation. I have been told it only comes up if there is an accident. I am not judging the troops them personally but if DoD can't or will not enforce a regulation why go to Suzuki, Kawi, Yamaha and Honda to try to get them to steer military members away from sportbikes?

Thoughts?

 

[Robot]

Kinda sounds like "Nanny State" marketing. "You need to be protected from yourself"

These are NOT my philosophy, be a big boy and realize the potential dangers from your purchase and riding habits. Thats my 2 cents

 

[Salty]

Ok first, sorry about the wacky spelling of Military. I am all thumbs.

I colored a couple sections because they point to the fact that DoD is targeting Sportbikes.

Here where I have a concern. DoD has a policy that all military members riding on or off installations must wear ATGATT including bright and reflective clothing. I live near one of the largest Naval installations (if no the largest) on the east coast and I rarely see military members riding ATGATT unless it it to or from an installation. I have been told it only comes up if there is an accident. I am not judging the troops them personally but if DoD can't or will not enforce a regulation why go to Suzuki, Kawi, Yamaha and Honda to try to get them to steer military members away from sportbikes?

Thoughts?

This is not the first time this article has come up for me...I have many friends that are in the military and I do a lot of riding in or around the Ft Leavenworth Area...

Most if not all of my friends who are active duty only ride in full ATGATT when on duty, or visiting the base.

The responsibility should not and will not fall on the hands of the dealers to recommend certain models of motorcycles to the troops...

People are attracted to the bikes they are attracted to...Let them ride what they want to ride...I just wish that people would choose to better educate themselves on motorcycles before going out and buying one...

Newbs should not be riding Hayabusa's as their first bike...
This is probably pretty controversial but I really feel that we should have some sort of progressive licensing for sport bikes in the USA...

 

[Robot]

Ok first, sorry about the wacky spelling of Military. I am all thumbs.

I colored a couple sections because they point to the fact that DoD is targeting Sportbikes.

Here where I have a concern. DoD has a policy that all military members riding on or off installations must wear ATGATT including bright and reflective clothing. I live near one of the largest Naval installations (if no the largest) on the east coast and I rarely see military members riding ATGATT unless it it to or from an installation. I have been told it only comes up if there is an accident. I am not judging the troops them personally but if DoD can't or will not enforce a regulation why go to Suzuki, Kawi, Yamaha and Honda to try to get them to steer military members away from sportbikes?

Thoughts?

ATGATT (all the gear all the time) is great but my guess is........it is not a determining factor in many of the fatalities. Poor judgement, (typical of myself as a youth), is the real problem.

 

[Robot]

Darn you Tom Cruise for riding that Ninja in Top Gun all those years ago, you have lead a whole generation of military youths to wanting to ride sportbikes and do wheelies so they can get the girl...

Ban the movie quick!!!

 

[rusheriv]

"You Can't Fix Stupid!" - Ron White

Manufacturers are in business to make money. They don't care who you are or what you buy just as lone as its their product. They do control the marketing but its the stealers that are selling the bikes to kids with no experience on one.

As a military member I know first hand the efforts they've put into trying to stop troops from killing themselves. They've mandated safery courses (even offer them at no cost), mandate risk assessments and risk management courses, mandate the wear of gear and reflective vests, but you just can't fix stupid!

They can't help themselves. These young guys are invincible, they come off long deployments with money saved up, the desire to just get away and blow off some steam, plus the desire to get a bike due to targeted marketing. That coupled with rises in gas prices and the current economy is pulling more and more of these young inexperienced riders out on the roads. It's a deadly cocktail waiting to explode!

My unit redeployed Nov'07 by Jan'08 I had 3 young troops with new sportbikes and 3 older guys who upgraded to different new bikes to replace what they had. Of the 6, 2 of the young troops and 1 older guy have laid them down. No serious injuries but something to be concerned about none the less.

It's a known fact that young males are more likely to take risks, combine that with a new bike, inexperience, peer pressure, the urge to party and throw in a cager or two ... something bad will happen.
Posted via Mobile Device

 

[Dino]

"You Can't Fix Stupid!" - Ron White

Manufacturers are in business to make money. They don't care who you are or what you buy just as lone as its their product. They do control the marketing but its the stealers that are selling the bikes to kids with no experience on one.

As a military member I know first hand the efforts they've put into trying to stop troops from killing themselves. They've mandated safery courses (even offer them at no cost), mandate risk assessments and risk management courses, mandate the wear of gear and reflective vests, but you just can't fix stupid!

They can't help themselves. These young guys are invincible, they come off long deployments with money saved up, the desire to just get away and blow off some steam, plus the desire to get a bike due to targeted marketing. That coupled with rises in gas prices and the current economy is pulling more and more of these young inexperienced riders out on the roads. It's a deadly cocktail waiting to explode!

My unit redeployed Nov'07 by Jan'08 I had 3 young troops with new sportbikes and 3 older guys who upgraded to different new bikes to replace what they had. Of the 6, 2 of the young troops and 1 older guy have laid them down. No serious injuries but something to be concerned about none the less.

It's a known fact that young males are more likely to take risks, combine that with a new bike, inexperience, peer pressure, the urge to party and throw in a cager or two ... something bad will happen.
Posted via Mobile Device

If you saw one of these guys out in town on their bike without proper gear would you write them up?

 

[MC MUSTANG]

Yes and no. ATGATT is not actually ATGATT

 

[MC MUSTANG]

The marketing of sportbikes is a problem because it doesn't matter how much gear you wear - when you spend your money ona ZX-14 as your first bike, you are asking to wad it up and tear up your body.

 

[Dino]

I realie ATGATT is not exactly correct. My point is that it concerns me that DOD is trying g to get industry to address a problem. But military members are not policing themselves in the most basic way to protect themselves. You said yes and no, why as a senior military member would you not enforce regulations?
Posted via Mobile Device

 

[DaCol.]

Hummmmmmmmmm , I remember when the Military FIRST got into trying to change my habits to save my life. At the time I got the information, I was in a Special Forces Camp in Vietnam which was surrounded by 10,000 NVA (two days later we were overrun by the NVA) an under 24 hour attacks. What was the Message ??? !!!!

They were attached to our C-rations being air droped :martin: into the camp since there was NO WAY of any ground delivery

1st) As you might expect, STOP SMOKING, IT CAN CAUSE CANCER !

2nd) STOP drinking Pre-Sweeten Kool Aid. It has been found that the ingredience might lead to Cancer ! (Later it was published that a person would have to drink 10 gals of Kool Aid every day for 20 years to get the same ratio the rats did )

Ya Know, I never got a message saying, "If you never came here or would just go home, you would probably live longer

Good Ole Government :goodidea: ! It always know better, just like NOW

 

[MC MUSTANG]

Didn't say I don't enforce regulations; what I said is I won't write someone up. My scoot is pretty identifiable as a military scoot... where I am stationed it is at the point where when people see Bessie, they scatter.

The biggest infraction? Reflective vests? Biggest problem with gear? Is that from base to base the requirements vary.. What you base requires is probably not what my base requires. And sorry, I do things pretty much by the book. If I leave my base and I am good, but you won't let me on your base because I am not according to your rules, then you just gave me the day off.
It isn't uniform enforcement, it is uniform application. A standard is and should be exactly that. Wear, blah, blah, blah, blah and blah. Period, if not, you are wrong. Too much subjectivity in gear requirements. And as much as I hate it, I think people who ride with the Mohawks suction cupped to their helmets are doing themselves more for visibility than any reflective vest during the day.

Also, the issue isn't to protect you in an accident, it is to avoid the accidents all together... guess what? Before they went to the Manufacturers, they created a new sportbike safety course, and contracted the Keith Code School, etc. I am focused on people riding like morons more so than if they are wearing a reflective outer garment.
Sent a guy to Office Hours for riding without a helmet. Made a guy park his bike and call a friend to bring him his gloves. Write people up? No thank you. Simply put - that isn't leadership.

Why do I try and take any training available? Why do I try to ride with young guys as often as possible? So they can see that someone has a larger bike and can still excercize some self control - that you do need some skill in manuvering a bike and that the rules are not below me because of what I wear.

However, I want to kick a salesman in the mouth everytime a person says I've never ridden before, but I would like to see a Busa - and salsesman simply says, there is one right over here and I have lots of incentives...

 

[Revlis]

It's just another sign of the rampant HUA disease that's running rampant throughout our Government. (Head Up A$$)

We need less government Nanny Statism... Most of the stupidity would handle itself if we as a people would get over this pathetic obsession with "security" and "safety" we have going right now and simply learned to accept and mitigate risk on our own.

Time to get back to looking after ourselves and taking responsibility for ourselves. No more government programs etc alleviating responsibility.

 

[dbf82]

I agree. I have been riding for 10 years now....was in the Air Force as a p.j. for 6 years and made myself a promise to not own a bike until I got out. Been out 2 years and I've had my busa for a year now....I did that so I wouldn't do anything stupid while in not to mention I wanted to wait till I was older. I'm 26 and I have a kid now so there's really no room to be stupid.

 

[rusheriv]

If you saw one of these guys out in town on their bike without proper gear would you write them up?

You can and I have counseled a troop or two for riding without their personal protective equipment (PPE), lawfull orders apply both on and off duty however, their selection of bike (size) and driving style (i.e. driving dangerously) can be subjective. Usually you don't know they're getting a bike or what size until they show up with it and then it's to late, they've spent their money. It's the same with the driving style, usually you don't see them until they're zipping past you and you can only assume that it's them. While all three can contribute to the overall rider's safety, PPE only increases the survival rate if something goes bad.