Gen 2 Bazzaz Map? Stock Bike w/ Brocks Alien Head exhaust

[RedBull]

Just use
the auto tune
FUNCTION !

Bazzaz maps??? | Gen 2 Busa Information

Anyone have any full exhaust base maps for the Bazzaz? I have a full Tsukigi cannon exhaust. Everything else stock. I can only find slip on maps.

www.hayabusa.org

 

[Mythos]

Just use the auto tune function!

It collects everything. If you want to tune redline, run it to redline. If you want 60% throttle from 3000 to 9000, make sure you run through that range. There is no reason to download someone else's fuel map when you can create your own. We even created an E85 map for my buddy by adding 30% to the whole table then auto tune.

You can do your own tune from a zero map using the Z-AFM but you will have to do top speed to tune the top end. ...and probably do it over a few times until all your trims zero out or come back a +/-1. Risky to do that on the street. I never quite got the whole thing with my DJ system on my 14. You also will need to know what the best target AFRs are and that is something only a good tuner knows. I did use a straight 13 AFR all across the board on my 14 and it worked fine. The base map with various AFRs that I tuned with AutoTune was a little better I think. Target AFR is somewhat of a mystery. Kind of like timing. It's pretty hard to know what is exactly the best and safe numbers to shoot for and where in the map. Then you also have multiple gear mapping in the ECU. Not a huge issue but the ECU impacts timing and AFR a little differently for every gear. You can TRE the bike to lock it in one gear map I guess. I'm not trying to dissuade you from self tuning but it is quite an undertaking. My experience with DJ is that you really cannot "just ride the bike" and let the tuning module create a good map. Rolling off the throttle creates improper trims, staying at one throttle position for a prolonged period is not something I ever do unless I'm cruising down the highway. I learned a good system for doing tuning runs but it was anything but going out for a fun ride. More like point the bike down a straight 1 mile long road and pay attention to throttle position and rpm...and hope no cops see me and the deer do.

My 08 busa has the basic Z-Fi. I never got around to hooking up the Z-AFM because the bung was welded in a poor position. I have not played with the Bazzaz system on the busa yet. I do have a Bazzaz map created by Greg Williams for an 08 busa with Tsukigi Cannon full system and BMC Race filter. I probably have it on my home computer.

What's the feeling about sharing maps? Before flashing became the norm, the practice of sharing maps started falling into disrepute. A map is someone else's property. I guess Greg Williams is not making a living tuning anymore but his map is his property.

 

[Mr Brown]

What's the feeling about sharing maps? Before flashing became the norm, the practice of sharing maps started falling into disrepute. A map is someone else's property. I guess Greg Williams is not making a living tuning anymore but his map is his property.

I disagree. If I pay someone to tune my bike, the results are mine. I paid him for his work and time, if I choose to share what he created, that's my business.

 

[Mythos]

I disagree. If I pay someone to tune my bike, the results are mine. I paid him for his work and time, if I choose to share what he created, that's my business.

That makes sense on the one hand because you did pay for it and it was specifically for your bike. But it also matters what rights the tuner has extended in the transaction. An artist doesn't have to sell all rights when he sells his work. You can own a painting but you are not supposed to copy it or print it if the artist retained copyright. Same goes with music of course. I do not think all tuners keep tight control of their work but they were speaking up about it back in about 2008. Unauthorized use was easy as copying a digital file and emailing it to someone. Now with flashing, it's not so easy to give away a tuners work.

 

[Dennis]

You can do your own tune from a zero map using the Z-AFM but you will have to do top speed to tune the top end. ...and probably do it over a few times until all your trims zero out or come back a +/-1. Risky to do that on the street. I never quite got the whole thing with my DJ system on my 14. You also will need to know what the best target AFRs are and that is something only a good tuner knows. I did use a straight 13 AFR all across the board on my 14 and it worked fine. The base map with various AFRs that I tuned with AutoTune was a little better I think. Target AFR is somewhat of a mystery. Kind of like timing. It's pretty hard to know what is exactly the best and safe numbers to shoot for and where in the map. Then you also have multiple gear mapping in the ECU. Not a huge issue but the ECU impacts timing and AFR a little differently for every gear. You can TRE the bike to lock it in one gear map I guess. I'm not trying to dissuade you from self tuning but it is quite an undertaking. My experience with DJ is that you really cannot "just ride the bike" and let the tuning module create a good map. Rolling off the throttle creates improper trims, staying at one throttle position for a prolonged period is not something I ever do unless I'm cruising down the highway. I learned a good system for doing tuning runs but it was anything but going out for a fun ride. More like point the bike down a straight 1 mile long road and pay attention to throttle position and rpm...and hope no cops see me and the deer do.

My 08 busa has the basic Z-Fi. I never got around to hooking up the Z-AFM because the bung was welded in a poor position. I have not played with the Bazzaz system on the busa yet. I do have a Bazzaz map created by Greg Williams for an 08 busa with Tsukigi Cannon full system and BMC Race filter. I probably have it on my home computer.

What's the feeling about sharing maps? Before flashing became the norm, the practice of sharing maps started falling into disrepute. A map is someone else's property. I guess Greg Williams is not making a living tuning anymore but his map is his property.

I don't think AFR targets are a huge mystery. The standard table that pops up in Woolich is a pretty good target. The risky areas are the full throttle columns (last to for argument's sake) so choose your values there closely. I have played with them at the track looking for MPH. Of course the piggyback systems like Bazzaz or DJ don't get into the trim by gear and other maps in the ECU but still are impacted by them. That means it is tough to get that absolutely perfect tune with the piggyback. Even so, a perfect tune is only good under those conditions anyway. A dyno tune of a piggyback doesn't take ram air into account, although the ECU does adjust for it. Bottom line for me is with the autotune feature I believe you can get a very usable tune on your own.

 

[Mr Brown]

That makes sense on the one hand because you did pay for it and it was specifically for your bike. But it also matters what rights the tuner has extended in the transaction. An artist doesn't have to sell all rights when he sells his work. You can own a painting but you are not supposed to copy it or print it if the artist retained copyright. Same goes with music of course. I do not think all tuners keep tight control of their work but they were speaking up about it back in about 2008. Unauthorized use was easy as copying a digital file and emailing it to someone. Now with flashing, it's not so easy to give away a tuners work.

Point taken, and I understand why people may think that it's unfair. Can a tune be copyrighted? If so then maybe a tuner would have grounds to make the claim of ownership, but barring that, I'd say fair game.

 

[Mythos]

Can a tune be copyrighted?

I don't know for sure but I think intellectual property is copyright and an actual tangible thing is patent. I think copyright laws would protect tuners like writers and other creative people. If so, all they have to do is label it as copyrighted material. I actually don't think that its even necessary to label it as copyrighted but I'm sure it's hard enough to prosecute people for smalltime copyright infringement already.

 

[Mythos]

Of course the piggyback systems like Bazzaz or DJ don't get into the trim by gear and other maps in the ECU but still are impacted by them.

DJ does allow you to tune by gear if you want. The problem is knowing what the ECU is programmed to do / gear. Ivan suggested I TRE my ZX-14 to lock it in a single gear map. I currently run my single map with the ECU's mapping/gear and it seems just fine. I might gain a tiny bit by unifying the mapping but the average guy starting out with a DJ system dosn't bother to do that.

I don't think AFR targets are a huge mystery. The standard table that pops up in Woolich is a pretty good target. The risky areas are the full throttle columns (last to for argument's sake) so choose your values there closely.

It's all a huge mystery until you figure it out!! I have seen AFR tables before and they always have multiple numbers. Exactly why they have that number and why it changes at what rpm/tp I have not figured out yet. I haven't looked hard enough at it yet to get any ideas. Thanks for the tip about the 100% TP column. Yes I have noticed they richen up a bit their and pull timing too. ----just how much??...I will have to buy myself a dyno someday so I can really know what is going on.

 

[Mr Brown]

I don't know for sure but I think intellectual property is copyright and an actual tangible thing is patent. I think copyright laws would protect tuners like writers and other creative people. If so, all they have to do is label it as copyrighted material. I actually don't think that its even necessary to label it as copyrighted but I'm sure it's hard enough to prosecute people for smalltime copyright infringement already.

Work product would fall under copyright, books, music, recipes etc.
Either side has merit, just depends on what a court said.

 

[Dennis]

DJ does allow you to tune by gear if you want. The problem is knowing what the ECU is programmed to do / gear. Ivan suggested I TRE my ZX-14 to lock it in a single gear map. I currently run my single map with the ECU's mapping/gear and it seems just fine. I might gain a tiny bit by unifying the mapping but the average guy starting out with a DJ system dosn't bother to do that.

It's all a huge mystery until you figure it out!! I have seen AFR tables before and they always have multiple numbers. Exactly why they have that number and why it changes at what rpm/tp I have not figured out yet. I haven't looked hard enough at it yet to get any ideas. Thanks for the tip about the 100% TP column. Yes I have noticed they richen up a bit their and pull timing too. ----just how much??...I will have to buy myself a dyno someday so I can really know what is going on.

I didn't know DJ could tune by gear, but it's been a long time since I've used them. I'm more familiar with Bazzaz, Woolich and Maxx. Woolich will allow you to tune by gear, by cylinder if you want to. I unify my maps for ease, then look at the AFR going down track. I have limited experience with fuel trim by gear and it does work, but generally my AFR's are within a reasonable range from gear to gear. It would be nice to have a fully dyno tuned map across all rpm and throttle range to start with, but for me in drag racing I would still be messing with the full throttle columns, at the track, in real-world situation. I haven't messed with timing on the bike but used to do it on cars, adding timing until the mph falls off then back off the timing from there.

The best system I've used (I'm no pro) is the Maxx with closed loop Lambda control. I built a new bike with a totally new engine and untuned, first pass, the AFR was where I asked it to be. I auto tuned with that log file and my next pass the ECU had less correction to do for me.

 

[Dennis]

Work product would fall under copyright, books, music, recipes etc.
Either side has merit, just depends on what a court said.

I suppose I should know more about copyright law than I do but I would seriously doubt that tuners copyright their tunes. If they did, it would make sense if they were selling an exhaust or piggyback system and copyright the software and common tunes that they shipped with it. I didn't pay for the development of the software or tune. If I pay a dyno operator 4 hours for a custom tune, I would wonder if they would have to copyright that unique tune in each case. I would argue it is mine since I paid for its creation.

 

[Mr Brown]

I suppose I should know more about copyright law than I do but I would seriously doubt that tuners copyright their tunes. If they did, it would make sense if they were selling an exhaust or piggyback system and copyright the software and common tunes that they shipped with it. I didn't pay for the development of the software or tune. If I pay a dyno operator 4 hours for a custom tune, I would wonder if they would have to copyright that unique tune in each case. I would argue it is mine since I paid for its creation.

I agree with you completely. I don't think tuners do either, but it would be interesting to see if they could.

 

[Mythos]

I didn't know DJ could tune by gear, but it's been a long time since I've used them.

Yes, you can and also each cylinder individually although you would probably be best to have an o2 sensor on each head pipe for /cylinder.

It would be nice to have a fully dyno tuned map across all rpm and throttle range to start with, but for me in drag racing I would still be messing with the full throttle columns, at the track, in real-world situation.

Yeah, I'm sure every time you go out you tune if you're serious about every hp. For me on the street, I can't tell enough difference to tune every day.

I haven't messed with timing on the bike but used to do it on cars, adding timing until the mph falls off then back off the timing from there.

Timing is a new frontier for me. That's one you don't want to experiment with adding or subtracting big numbers on. I hope I can find a way to pinpoint it safely. Sounds like you did.

 

[deon_hackstall]

I have a Gen II thats completely stock besides the Brock's Alien Head Exhaust and only street ride. Recently bought myself the Bazzaz Z Fi TC with Z-AFM and in need of some help. I was wondering if anybody may have a Bazzaz map close to my setup? I did contact Brocks Map Support for one of their maps but they don't offer a Bazzaz map only Power Commander. But I would like to have a close base map until I can get to a dyno tuner. Lastly, I am in the Baltimore, MD area, if there is any reputable dyno tuners please let me know.

Thanks for the help!

Brock has a Bazzaz map for your bike and pipe. Just send him a pic of your pipe and $20 and you are good.

 

[WolfPack12]

Brock has a Bazzaz map for your bike and pipe. Just send him a pic of your pipe and $20 and you are good.

Thats what I thought too...So I requested the map and their tech support told me to contact Bazzaz. Brocks only have maps for the Power Commander for my setup (Stock Bike, Stock FIleter, and Alien Head Exhuast). Trust I was a dissapointed that don't have maps for the Bazzaz. But unless you know something different let me know.

 

[deon_hackstall]

Thats what I thought too...So I requested the map and their tech support told me to contact Bazzaz. Brocks only have maps for the Power Commander for my setup (Stock Bike, Stock FIleter, and Alien Head Exhuast). Trust I was a dissapointed that don't have maps for the Bazzaz. But unless you know something different let me know.

That's strange,,, I use to have one that I got from Brock,,,, i will search and see if i still have it.

 

[WolfPack12]

That's strange,,, I use to have one that I got from Brock,,,, i will search and see if i still have it.

Unless they lied to me, which i hope not...below are the two emails they sent me when I requested map support from them.

 

[RedBull]

Bazzaz maps??? | Gen 2 Busa Information

Anyone have any full exhaust base maps for the Bazzaz? I have a full Tsukigi cannon exhaust. Everything else stock. I can only find slip on maps.

www.hayabusa.org