Favor OEM front pads for street bike but open to suggestions

spotrot

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In the past I've had nothing but problems with aftermarket pads on early Corvettes: great claims of better performance but instead they stopped slower, made much more dirty brake dust and squealed. Never had these problems with many dozens of OEM GM/Delco pads I've installed.

However, I'm open to suggestions for the bike. It's an around-town, street-only bike so brake fade is not a concern. Price & wear rate is not a priority either but a little stronger stopping, like my S1000RR, is desirable.

The old pads are original and down to under 0.100 inch and 12,000 miles. The thickness is not the reason for the change thought. It appears the fork seals seeped enough over time so that a little must have got on the pads and rotors. Although it only looks like brake dust on them, no matter how hard I sqeeze, the braking ability is near zero 0 -- as in no better than dragging your feet on the ground.

(lever is firm, caliper clamp and all pistons are fairly free)
 
ebc hh sintered are great for the busa and don't squeal like the sbs pads i have now which aren't so great but i needed a quick swap for the track.
 
More solid bite and don't feel wooden like oem. Trust me, you'll notice a difference over stock but make sure you bed them in.
 
Read up on this forum. There are several threads which talk about improving 1 of the busas main weaknesses (braking). Hate to break it to you but if more stopping power is what your after its gonna take more than a set of pads. If you wanna stop on a dime your gonna need better pads, SS lines, radial/brembo caliper conversion, brembo MC, etc.
 
I've used the stock, EBC HH, and also the EBC Extreme Pro. The latter is best of the three in my opinion.
 
The EBC HH pads seem to be the most popular pads on this site. The EBC HH pads do give a more aggressive bite when applying the brake. However, if $$$ is no issue and you want a good feel, give the EBC Extreme Pro pads a shot. They don't bite any better than the EBC HH but they have much better feel. After all, feel is what we are looking for over how hard they bite.
 
Read up on this forum. There are several threads which talk about improving 1 of the busas main weaknesses (braking). Hate to break it to you but if more stopping power is what your after its gonna take more than a set of pads. If you wanna stop on a dime your gonna need better pads, SS lines, radial/brembo caliper conversion, brembo MC, etc.

None of that aftermarket stuff will give you more stopping power. However, it will allow for less lever pressure to reach maximum stopping power. Sort of like installing power brakes on a 57 chevy with vacuum brakes. Less pedal pressure for any given amount of braking.
 
EBC HH pads have been on my busa for over 60K miles, mostly street riding although I have done a few track days, and the rest of my brake system is stock. I guess I'm just used to the bike as the brakes work fine for me. I don't try to ride like Josh Hayes though.:laugh:
 
Thanks for all the input. After a couple hours of searching, it looks like I could research this forever and not come up with a consensus, probably like the answer to "What's the best street tire?"
I'd guess some of the variability in riders' results comes from differences in rotor condtion/make and maybe changes in the pad material over the years.

In any case, here's a short summary user reported of cons for ebc HH and pros for OEM:

Cons EBC HH's

ran the EBC HH's on the stock rotors....... what I didn't like, with the stock rotors ---- there is an initial grab that happens....then they let off a little, then come on strong. At speed this didn't happen. They'd drive me nuts using them in the city.......

put EBC HH pads on a '96 VFR750 some years back. They got very grabby when heated, not good for street riding.

a bit noisy around town, squeaky that is, at lower speeds.

You can also feel them come in as they heat up, don't worry, there is cold braking effect that is good, but as they heat up you can tell and they get better.

Like any aggressive brake pad, these are meant to operate best at a higher temperature (not ambient, I mean hard stops on a racetrack without fading) and these will squeak when they are cold.

that the EBC HH pads are crap... The backing plates are too thin and the heat causes them to warp which creates parasitic drag


Pro OEM

The OEM stuff of today is what racers dreamed of having years ago.
Let's see now, they work cold, they work in the wet, they work hot, they last, they are not expensive for what they do.

If all I did was do street riding, I would stay OEM which are pretty good pads

Hard to beat most stock pads

Stock OEM pads are always a good choice for the street. Mild initial bite and the more you squeeze the harder it stops, in any weather. Hard to beat.
 
Gen 1 or Gen II ? The Gen II comes with improved lines, etc. The 2013 > comes with Brembo and ABS. To your question : EBC Extreme Pro. Had them for the past 13K miles without issue and I felt that they improved my braking.
 
OEM pads are HH as well. There is nothing wrong with OEM pads but I'd question the source of your quote below on EBC pads. EBC is Made in the USA and are outstanding pads. If you want that really smooth feel, try the Extreme Pros. The extreme pro is a HH pad with ground up ceramic dust incorporated into the pad material.



Thanks for all the input. After a couple hours of searching, it looks like I could research this forever and not come up with a consensus, probably like the answer to "What's the best street tire?"
I'd guess some of the variability in riders' results comes from differences in rotor condtion/make and maybe changes in the pad material over the years.

In any case, here's a short summary user reported of cons for ebc HH and pros for OEM:

Cons EBC HH's

ran the EBC HH's on the stock rotors....... what I didn't like, with the stock rotors ---- there is an initial grab that happens....then they let off a little, then come on strong. At speed this didn't happen. They'd drive me nuts using them in the city.......

put EBC HH pads on a '96 VFR750 some years back. They got very grabby when heated, not good for street riding.

a bit noisy around town, squeaky that is, at lower speeds.

You can also feel them come in as they heat up, don't worry, there is cold braking effect that is good, but as they heat up you can tell and they get better.

Like any aggressive brake pad, these are meant to operate best at a higher temperature (not ambient, I mean hard stops on a racetrack without fading) and these will squeak when they are cold.

that the EBC HH pads are crap... The backing plates are too thin and the heat causes them to warp which creates parasitic drag


Pro OEM

The OEM stuff of today is what racers dreamed of having years ago.
Let's see now, they work cold, they work in the wet, they work hot, they last, they are not expensive for what they do.

If all I did was do street riding, I would stay OEM which are pretty good pads

Hard to beat most stock pads

Stock OEM pads are always a good choice for the street. Mild initial bite and the more you squeeze the harder it stops, in any weather. Hard to beat.
 
I have been happy with the Galfers I put on earlier this year. They are a little noisy but they really grab. Put steel braided lines on at the same time so between the two I have noticed a huge difference.
 
Based on your description, you've got something else going on, and I think you should focus on this first. If your forks continue leaking on the pads, the new pads won't make it any better. Why don't you pull the pads out (one at a time so you don't accidentally mismatch them), take pictures of the pad surface and post here.

Any chance your pistons seized? When the bike is parked and its quiet, and you squeeze the lever, do you hear any sound from the pads touching the rotors?

If the pad surface is the obvious culprit, try sanding the pads on 200 grit sandpaper placed on a flat surface until the entire surface is uniformly sanded. Take one pad at a time out to make sure you don't mismatch the pads - every pad should go back into its original spot. Wipe the rotors with paper towel wetted with alcohol - this includes the inside of every rotor as well. On your first ride, you'll have to break-in the pads as usual, however you will notice that that the break-in will go really quickly for obvious reasons. If this helps, you can get some miles from your current pads - they still have 2.0 - 2.5 mm thickness down from 4.0 mm when new IIRC. If the pads work great for a while, but then deteriorate again, you have to investigate. Fork oil leaking on the pads? Something else?

Aftermarket pads are definitely better. Can't go wrong with EBC HH or EBC HH Pro, although the latter is almost twice as expensive as the former. I personally used EBC HH for a number of years, and even EBC HH Pro once, but then switched to Vesrah JL pads (analog to EBC HH). Have no intention of going back to EBC because Vesrah JL pads have a lot better feel. Vesrah RJL (analog to EBC HH Pro) have even better feel and stopping power - however, I've never used those because they are also more expensive.
 
Pulled and disassembled the forks and calipers today.

Forks definitely have been leaking for a while and many of the pistons had a lot of friction.

All 12 pistons looked amazingly good for almost 10 years old. Whatever anodizing or pc Suzuki puts on holds up very well.

The fork seals needed changing, that became obvious.

What was not obvious is why there was no braking force with my hands clamped hard on a firm lever. Some pistons were tighter than I expect is perfect but not enough to make even a 2% difference in the clamping force. Therefore, I'm cleaning the rotors and installing new pads.

The Suzuki manual says to change brake hoses every 4 years. Does anybody do this on a street bike?
 
I'll try to post a pic of the pads

IcsuhDC.jpg

Neither the front nor back of the pads were wet, nor was the rotor. And the caliper pistons were not seized. So it's still a puzzler why I had NO effective braking when squeezing hard on a solid lever. (With the front wheel lifted, squeezing the lever did clamp the brakes.)

Potential causes:

1. Maybe fork oil slowly soaked into the pads over time.
2. Maybe the hoses collapse internally (I doubt it but I bought SS ones just in case)
3. Maybe the valve or piston in the master cylinder has a strange problem

I've just received from Justin the following parts so we'll see if that solves the problem.

$65 front pads (OEM) for both calipers (4 pads) (EBC HH are about $25/caliper)
$27/ea caliper seal kit for both front calipers (12 dust seals, 12 piston seals, 4 o-rings)
$99 ss brake hoses, black
Brake fluid, non-synthetic - Honda 12 oz

and fork parts:

Fork seal kit (for both forks) $14/ea Dust Seal, $14/ea Oil Seal, $1/ea Bottom Bolt 'Crush' Gasket
Fork oil - 1 L Maxima 10W
$30 spacer nut for front axle (I scraped the seal surface)
no Upper O-Ring - (Justin seldom sells them)


Just don't pull out in front of me until I test it.
 
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New OEM pads and rebulit calipers. It now stops. Great.

After the questionable practice of burnishing the new pads, I accidentally slid the front tire on a descending turn testing the new stopping power.

Note to self: it may be time for fresh front rubber.
:laugh:
 
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