Chauvin guilty on all charges

[Red05]

I am not disputing Chauvin murdered a citizen. And he will serve 22.5 years for that.

Yes but remember there's a world of difference between the Chauvin/Floyd incident and an officer forced to draw his weapon in a threatening situation. It's a distinction anybody considering a career as a police officer can and has to make.

 

[CBXRider]

Chauvin isn't the first cop to get sentenced....so I doubt his sentencing will have much effect on the rest (maybe a few but that's about all).

Just like you and @fallenarch said, funding the police properly is the way to go....turning them into some sort of para-military force isn't. In many cases they come flying into a situation in armored cars, wearing helmets/fatigues and carrying assault rifles. Or they are some faceless entity driving by in their patrol car with their windows up and a sneer on their face.

I like the community policing model where the police are out of their cars and on the streets getting to know and be trusted by the people they are supposed to be serving.

With urban sprawl, this isn't always possible but there has to be some sort of compromise.

I posted this almost a year ago.

Beginning now, from every police and sheriff‘s organization across the country, statements have to be made announcing immediate changes in how the police are evaluated, trained and hired. And the implementation of these new practices has to happen without delay. They can restructure and evaluate as they go but continuing down the same road as we’re used to just ain’t cuttin it. From the hiring process thru the Academy to actual contact experiences with the citizenry, if the personnel who staff this nation’s law enforcement agencies don’t adopt better practices, ‘riot’ like protests replete with burning cars in the street will continue, as if any of our city streets should resemble some war torn village across the ocean! I’m pissed and yet I don’t have the worry that people of color in this country have any time they might interact with the police.

Has there been any real substantive change?

 

[jellyrug]

I posted this almost a year ago.

Beginning now, from every police and sheriff‘s organization across the country, statements have to be made announcing immediate changes in how the police are evaluated, trained and hired. And the implementation of these new practices has to happen without delay. They can restructure and evaluate as they go but continuing down the same road as we’re used to just ain’t cuttin it. From the hiring process thru the Academy to actual contact experiences with the citizenry, if the personnel who staff this nation’s law enforcement agencies don’t adopt better practices, ‘riot’ like protests replete with burning cars in the street will continue, as if any of our city streets should resemble some war torn village across the ocean! I’m pissed and yet I don’t have the worry that people of color in this country have any time they might interact with the police.

Has there been any real substantive change?

Do you think that is practical and possible?

Sorry for running in an opposite direction to Arch and those who will worship a Floyd statue.

On the one hand I disagree.

If our legal system allows a guy who has been arrested 9 times and jailed, for drugs, theft, aggravated assault with a firearm to be free in society before he is reformed, or ready to start a clean life and he becomes a martyr his conduct becomes an acceptable and praisable norm for society. To police that kind of society, is trying to achieve the impossible.

On the other hand I agree with you.

If a LEO takes the life of someone being detained, in public, while on camera, there was a major problem with his fitness for the role. Poor selection, poor evaluation of behavioral dimensions and the lack of training. It will be interesting to see the world 22 some years from now when he is released. Unlike Floyd, I would hope he is a changed man by then.

 

[fallenarch]

Arch, while a lot of what you have written, is similar to my thoughts, the main point is missed though.

In the US, regarding this topic, the only thing which may land you in jail is an act which can be proven as definitive action towards committing terrorism. And even that is often overlooked. Freedom allows people to disrespect whatever they wish. It is OK to burn the flag, OK to resist detainment, OK to post any BS anywhere.

Anyone who has lived and worked in other first world countries will notice the difference in culture.

Let’s just cite one example, link below.

Chinese tourists learn that the Nazi salute remains a serious matter in Germany

Two Chinese tourists discovered the hard way that giving the outlawed Hitlergruss — or Nazi salute — in front of the Reichstag building in Berlin is no laughing matter in Germany.

www.google.com

I'm still not picking up what you're putting down. What is your point when you say:

In the US, regarding this topic, the only thing which may land you in jail is an act that can be proven as definitive action towards committing terrorism. And even that is often overlooked. Freedom allows people to disrespect whatever they wish. It is OK to burn the flag, OK to resist detainment, OK to post any BS anywhere.

Serious question, not being a peter, Lol!

 

[TallTom]

Yes but remember there's a world of difference between the Chauvin/Floyd incident and an officer forced to draw his weapon in a threatening situation. It's a distinction anybody considering a career as a police officer can and has to make.

Tell that to the press and the current public jury that armchair quarterback it.

 

[TallTom]

The current situation motivates authorities to exit the Wild West and allow conduct without boundaries.

YEP! And the Wild West can shoot themselves to death.

 

[fallenarch]

The Federal AG went into Ferguson and straightened it out for the most part. I think we filter out facts when looking at Policing. Police do treat Blacks more aggressively than whites in fact. The courts do charge blacks harsher than whites for similar offenses, again that's a fact. Those are systemic issues that are easy to stop, given the will to do so. There is simply no excuse for Police not wearing cameras, or documenting all uses of excessive force including shootings, or being transparent about video and evidence.

All of this nonsense can be stopped. A guy like Chauvin should expect hard time for choking a human being in cold blood in front of 20 citizens in broad daylight. He's even mugging for the camera! Cops need to know this won't be tolerated. Look at Chauvin's record, what is a monster like this doing walking the streets with the force of the law at his side? Note also he is the first cop convicted for murdering a suspect in MN ever.

Cop's who say if they are going to get time like Chauvin they are going to hesitate is Bull chiting. Chauvin was not under any stress when he killed Floyd in cold blood. Chauvin killed him to terrorize people.

 

[jellyrug]

I'm still not picking up what you're putting down. What is your point when you say:

In the US, regarding this topic, the only thing which may land you in jail is an act that can be proven as definitive action towards committing terrorism. And even that is often overlooked. Freedom allows people to disrespect whatever they wish. It is OK to burn the flag, OK to resist detainment, OK to post any BS anywhere.

Serious question, not being a peter, Lol!

If people are allowed to disrespect authority, meaning no respect for law enforcement, law or the rules which enables us to live in harmony, there will be no harmony. People will break the rules and crime will be rampant.

Irrespective of color, if folks guilty or not guilty respect the perception of an LEO and follow directions, it is unlikely there will be a fatality involved.

If your parents did not scold you when you broke the rules, you will continue to break the rules into adulthood.

In short, freedom of conduct in the US is abused and there are no consequences for disrespecting authority.

So if you called your dad an ahole in public when you were a kid and he accepted that as OK, perhaps you would be worse off today and your household would not be in harmony.

 

[jellyrug]

If people are allowed to disrespect authority, meaning no respect for law enforcement, law or the rules which enables us to live in harmony, there will be no harmony. People will break the rules and crime will be rampant.

Irrespective of color, if folks guilty or not guilty respect the perception of an LEO and follow directions, it is unlikely there will be a fatality involved.

If your parents did not scold you when you broke the rules, you will continue to break the rules into adulthood.

In short, freedom of conduct in the US is abused and there are no consequences for disrespecting authority.

So if you called your dad an ahole in public when you were a kid and he accepted that as OK, perhaps you would be worse off today and your household would not be in harmony.

Perhaps that was still confusing.

If the media shows everyone how the public disrespects law enforcement, by yelling, throwing stuff and even physically touching LEO’s and it is accepted, it follows that criminals will be influenced to disrespect and oppose detainment or arrest. The results of what we saw in the start of the Floyd incident.

We get involved in Middle East wars, because we do not understand their culture. In one of the wealthiest countries in the Middle East, George would never have gotten to count 9. Count 1 would have been several cane lashes in public, count 2 would have been taking off his right hand in public, count 3 he would have been decapitated in public. If he disrespected authorities, he would not even have gotten to count 1.

While I not support the above, it is an example of why we should respect the freedom we have over here responsibly.

 

[fallenarch]

If people are allowed to disrespect authority, meaning no respect for law enforcement, law or the rules which enables us to live in harmony, there will be no harmony. People will break the rules and crime will be rampant.

Irrespective of color, if folks guilty or not guilty respect the perception of an LEO and follow directions, it is unlikely there will be a fatality involved.

If your parents did not scold you when you broke the rules, you will continue to break the rules into adulthood.

In short, freedom of conduct in the US is abused and there are no consequences for disrespecting authority.

So if you called your dad an ahole in public when you were a kid and he accepted that as OK, perhaps you would be worse off today and your household would not be in harmony.

But it is authority itself disrespecting the law that are breaking down the order. Floyd was following directions when he was killed. As have been many Blacks who were killed or injured following directions. White people would not put up with this and you know it.

 

[jellyrug]

But it is authority itself disrespecting the law that are breaking down the order. Floyd was following directions when he was killed. As have been many Blacks who were killed or injured following directions. White people would not put up with this and you know it.

I’m not so sure about that Arch.

If Floyd was white and Chauvin was black, my guess is the media would hardly have covered it. It would not have been worth the broadcasting revenue and we probably would not have known about it, as there would have been no protests.

The media chooses also to quickly forget about white cops being executed for no apparent reason.

Let’s talk about the capital riot. So far only one individual has been sentenced with 3 years probation only. Nothing to do with color, it is the justice system allowing total disrespect of authority.

 

[fallenarch]

I’m not so sure about that Arch.

If Floyd was white and Chauvin was black, my guess is the media would hardly have covered it. It would not have been worth the broadcasting revenue and we probably would not have known about it, as there would have been no protests.

The media chooses also to quickly forget about white cops being executed for no apparent reason.

Let’s talk about the capital riot. So far only one individual has been sentenced with 3 years probation only. Nothing to do with color, it is the justice system allowing total disrespect of authority.

But Floyd isn't White and Chauvin isn't Black. You don't see Black cops executing Whites in public with witnesses because it doesn't happen. You are drawing a false hypothetical to prove your point.

 

[jellyrug]

But Floyd isn't White and Chauvin isn't Black. You don't see Black cops executing Whites in public with witnesses because it doesn't happen. You are drawing a false hypothetical to prove your point.

Cops kill a lot more whites than blacks but they are killing a disproportionate amount of blacks to whites based on the percentage of the black population compared to white. You are correct about black cops not killing whites, but we have to consider why black cops kill just as many blacks?

So statistically we can ponder that killing blacks is a cop problem rather than a race problem?

Or, we can look at crime rates which again are disproportionate to blacks committing much more crime than whites based on the proportion of blacks to whites. So we can either ponder that crime is a race issue, or we can accept that fatal cop shootings are proportionate to crime and not really a race issue.

To make that clear, look at numbers in the FBI statistical database on crime rates. I have to look again, but I believe after 2016 the FBI endeavored to leave race out of the numbers, so you may want to look back further.

 

[fallenarch]

Cops kill a lot more whites than blacks but they are killing a disproportionate amount of blacks to whites based on the percentage of the black population compared to white. You are correct about black cops not killing whites, but we have to consider why black cops kill just as many blacks?

So statistically we can ponder that killing blacks is a cop problem rather than a race problem?

Or, we can look at crime rates which again are disproportionate to blacks committing much more crime than whites based on the proportion of blacks to whites. So we can either ponder that crime is a race issue, or we can accept that fatal cop shootings are proportionate to crime and not really a race issue.

To make that clear, look at numbers in the FBI statistical database on crime rates. I have to look again, but I believe after 2016 the FBI endeavored to leave race out of the numbers, so you may want to look back further.

The problem with that rationale is the whites kill more cops than blacks. So cops should be approaching whites more aggressively than blacks.

And why on earth would the FBI leave race out of a statistic when it is a proven factor?

 

[jellyrug]

The problem with that rationale is the whites kill more cops than blacks. So cops should be approaching whites more aggressively than blacks.

And why on earth would the FBI leave race out of a statistic when it is a proven factor?

They do. More than twice as many whites are killed by cops. The media just chooses not to tell you that.

Irrespective of blacks making up a small percentage of the total population, they murder more in total numbers than whites.

Unfortunately if we consider that the black population makes up only 14% of total population and we factor that into the numbers posted below, we have to consider that black crime per capita is staggering.

Table 43

ucr.fbi.gov

Table 43

ucr.fbi.gov

 

[jellyrug]

And why on earth would the FBI leave race out of a statistic when it is a proven factor?

Sorry I was mistaken. I thought they were trying to conceal the fact that almost 50% of the murders in the US are committed by a small group making up only 14% of the total population, including all races.

I should have said the media hides that instead of the FBI.

 

[Bumblebee]

All that being said, there was no reason a cop of any color needed to be kneeling on the neck of an already subdued suspect of any color when they had a perfectly good cop car with a silent partner....he could have easily been hobbled and stuck in the back of that cruiser....

There needs to be a time when skin color is taken out of the equation and policing is conducted based on the crime committed....

The crime depicted in this particular case was definitely not indicative of the actions taken by the police...passing a counterfeit $20 bill was not the crime of the century and until it was proven the suspect knowingly passed this counterfeit bill, he could have been talked to and then sent on his way...any one of us could be carrying a counterfeit bill right now and not even know it.

 

[Bumblebee]

Charlotte is trying an experiment..maybe it will work...?

MSN

www.msn.com

 

[Mythos]

They do. More than twice as many whites are killed by cops. The media just chooses not to tell you that.

Irrespective of blacks making up a small percentage of the total population, they murder more in total numbers than whites.

Unfortunately if we consider that the black population makes up only 14% of total population and we factor that into the numbers posted below, we have to consider that black crime per capita is staggering.

Table 43

ucr.fbi.gov

Table 43

ucr.fbi.gov

Good luck with the official statistics, jellyrug. When I presented those, the official statistics were dismissed as false or slanted and the internet is not a reliable method of doing research.

My conclusion looking at the FBI tables last summer were the same as yours and I even atempted some of my own calculations to determine the differential between various races of people killed by cops to extrapolate on that data. I think the tables contain accurate unbiased information. I still think it's time we all accept there's a serious problem within the poverty affected black community compared to the "the rest of us" of all colors who are not affected by poverty. More alarming, there's a bigger violent crime rate among poor blacks than there are among other races affected by poverty. Time to start finding out the reasons for the difference and address that problem.

My own little racial world was confined to Milwaukee from the mid 80s to about 2015. I never was a victim of violent crime anywhere I went but I felt the vibe much friendlier (actually pretty normal) in poor Latino, Hmong, Arabic and white communities. The vibe in the poor black community of Milwaukee was a whole different thing. It was just my experience as one person in one US city and it's true, my perception could be affected by biases I'm not even aware I possess. If I'm relatively unbiased like I think I am, my personal experience with things like courtesy, respect and acceptance of diversity in various ethnic communities affected by poverty seems to parallel the crime statistics.

 

[jellyrug]

All that being said, there was no reason a cop of any color needed to be kneeling on the neck of an already subdued suspect of any color when they had a perfectly good cop car with a silent partner....he could have easily been hobbled and stuck in the back of that cruiser....

There needs to be a time when skin color is taken out of the equation and policing is conducted based on the crime committed....

The crime depicted in this particular case was definitely not indicative of the actions taken by the police...passing a counterfeit $20 bill was not the crime of the century and until it was proven the suspect knowingly passed this counterfeit bill, he could have been talked to and then sent on his way...any one of us could be carrying a counterfeit bill right now and not even know it.

Yep I agree with everything you have said.

Looking at this through a different lens, there were two losses and two wins.

Losses:

Floyd lost his life.

Chauvin goes to prison for life.


Wins:

A criminal with 9 convictions including assault with a firearm becomes a martyr and a prime role model for the criminal world.

Floyd’s family walks away with $27+ Million.