AC 130 Gunship footage

Um Twisted, your a little twisted on the Gulf war thing. Pre gulf war Iraq had the fifth largest military in the world, Upwards of 450K effective. Post Gulf war estimates place the remaining strength at about 200K. The fifth largest military was effectively reduced by more than 1/2. The republican guard was all but completely eliminated. Their units suffered under some of the most brutal bombing in history, their reputation of being half worth a damn made them the target of Fuel Air Bombs, Cluster Munitions, Dumb bombs by the trainload, and the steady pounding of B52s. The B52 is such a frightening weapon beacuse it flies high enough that you cannot see it or hear it. So Basically your enjoying your afternoon tea and the world just explodes around you. Essentially the Republican Guard was completely eliminated by the time the war came to an end.
 
I wasn't going to jump in here.. but I willl.. We did not pull out of the gulf war because of opposition. We pulled out because we accomplished the mission. Our only mission was to get Iraq out of Kuwait. No one apposed what we did in the Gulf war except for Iraq. We were acting in defense of another country.

We had no desire to remove anyone from power or further kick Iraq's arse at that time, we stopped because we wanted a political solution to the problem. We tried a political solution for over 10 years, it didn’t work, that is why we finally went in. the oil for food program was not working, other countries were doing stuff they were not supposed to be doing and the system was failing to prevent Iraq from increasing in strength and doing what Saddam wanted.

This time around we acted in a pre-emptive manner, we have never done that before on such a large scale.

And most of the opposition this time was from entities that stood to lose a lot of money. People have no fricken clue about the real issues.

The United Nations was making close to 4 billion dollars a year on the oil for food program from Iraq. If we went in and took over Iraq (as we did) the United Nations would (and did) lose that 4 billion dollars a year they were making. Under the oil for food program the United Nations grew in size and strength because of the amount of money it was making

France were closer allies to Iraq than they are to us AND Iraq owed France a crap load of money. France knew that if the old regime (Saddam) was taken out of power, they might as well kiss that money good bye.

Same for Germany, Iraq owed Germany a crap load of money (again Saddam's regime) and Germany stood to lose all the Money that Iraq owed them. You can guess as to why Iraq owed France and Germany money

Just about anyone that opposed the United States going into Iraq was doing it solely for financial reasons, it was all economics, however the country's leaderships new they would have a better chance of getting their countries behind them if they raised questions about the validity of the need to remove Saddam by force.

If you notice, most of the people that are and were protesting were nothing better than blind and deaf sheep, they were protesting because (they were told to, they thought it was the right thing to do) most protesters were not protesting with any factual information in their heads.

Ok, I could go on.. but I will stop there.

Anyone who believes we did the wrong thing should research how close Iraq was to Germany and France (the two major powers who opposed the war) and how much Iraq owed those countries and what Iraq was getting from those countries.
 
actually powell and cheney wanted to finish off the republican army since the U.S. armored division had them sealed off and in their grasp, they destroyed 40% of the Iraqie forces in a single day and they felt they could have finished the rest within 3 days, but because of international opposition bush sr. ordered the withdraw. it is my opinion the failure of defeating the Iraqies at that time was a major failure and led to our delemma today, especially since the U.S. promised the Kurds protection, but insted they bailed on them, leaving them to be slaughtered by suddam and his armies and ultimately losing the trust of the Iraqie people. money may well have been the underlying motovator for the U.N. but they used the bloody mile propoganda to persuade other countries this battle is wrong and used it to gain opposition to the war from other countries. thats how it works politically. and the U.S. did want saddam at that time as he was wanted for war crimes then, just as he is today, or was I should say.

my point is you walk a thin line in killing civillians in any war, war footage of civillians have damaged efforts in the past, and it could in the future. you cant tell in that footage if its civillians or not, but it appears from the lack of defense, not. and these sheeps you speak of happen to be 70% of the british population as well as 45% of the american population if my memory serves me right? I remember over 100,000 people gathering at one time in san fran protesting in the streets against a war in Iraq.

obviously I am not against the efforts in the middle east, but in a democratic system the majority rules, if the majority of the people show opposition, then leaders have no choice but to react, remember the 4 dead in Ohio?

so my point, in order to finish this war achieving the objection of preventing WMDs in the middle east being produced and removing terrorist cells, 3 things need to happen.

1. we need our troops to remain in the middle east, and that means we need americans to demand they stay till its finished and we need the same from the international community as well.

2. we need to locate and destroy terrorist cells, their money and personell, the same goes for WMDs.

3. we need to give the people in the middle east a detourant to producing WMDs and forming terrorist organizations in the future.

instead of showing people how devistatingly accurate U.S. weapons are, the U.S. should be showing people how the deaths of so many people in this war are improving the lives for the people in the middle east and elsewhere? or soon enough the economic strain combined with the lack of productivity more people will oppose the war and it will ultimatley force the withdraw of military action without the mission being accomplished. when those sitting on the fence see footage of civillians being killed it could persuade them to go the other way?

guess I am just trying to say you may be shooting yourself in the foot while you are showing how you shoot others
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Um Twisted, your a little twisted on the Gulf war thing. Pre gulf war Iraq had the fifth largest military in the world, Upwards of 450K effective.  Post Gulf war estimates place the remaining strength at about 200K.  The fifth largest military was effectively reduced by more than 1/2.  The republican guard was all but completely eliminated.  Their units suffered under some of the most brutal bombing in history, their reputation of being half worth a damn made them the target of Fuel Air Bombs, Cluster Munitions, Dumb bombs by the trainload, and the steady pounding of B52s.  The B52 is such a frightening weapon beacuse it flies high enough that you cannot see it or hear it.  So Basically your enjoying your afternoon tea and the world just explodes around you.  Essentially the Republican Guard was completely eliminated by the time the war came to an end.
Rev, that was my point, the republican army was almost completely destroyed, but due to the brutality of the bloody mile, international opposition to that style of warfare and prolly a few other factors forced bush to withdraw leaving some of the republican army intact, and saddam the leader of Iraq. 40% is the number that was destroyed in the final 3 days of the war, why is that twisted?
 
Um Twisted, your a little twisted on the Gulf war thing. Pre gulf war Iraq had the fifth largest military in the world, Upwards of 450K effective.  Post Gulf war estimates place the remaining strength at about 200K.  The fifth largest military was effectively reduced by more than 1/2.  The republican guard was all but completely eliminated.  Their units suffered under some of the most brutal bombing in history, their reputation of being half worth a damn made them the target of Fuel Air Bombs, Cluster Munitions, Dumb bombs by the trainload, and the steady pounding of B52s.  The B52 is such a frightening weapon beacuse it flies high enough that you cannot see it or hear it.  So Basically your enjoying your afternoon tea and the world just explodes around you.  Essentially the Republican Guard was completely eliminated by the time the war came to an end.
Rev, that was my point, the republican army was almost completely destroyed, but due to the brutality of the bloody mile, international opposition to that style of warfare and prolly a few other factors forced bush to withdraw leaving some of the republican army intact, and saddam the leader of Iraq. 40% is the number that was destroyed in the final 3 days of the war, why is that twisted?
I was saying you were Twisted in the Belief that Public opinion stopped us from continuing the war. Thats just not the case. We stopped for a few reasons but brutal war reports were not one of them.
1. We had a lot of support from other Arabian Countries, if we had continued devestating Iraqs military we would have lost the support of those countries and a lot of our other allies.
2. Or mission was NEVER to remove Saddam from Power, NEVER. Our mission was to free Kuwait, once that was done our green cards we're pretty much expired.
3. The "Bloody Mile" as you call it had little to do with our ceasing hostilities.The 2500-5000 troops smoked on the road to Iraq is just a drop in the bucket. Was it a bad Idea? Maybe, but in the grand scheme, if we had intended to over throw Saddam at that point political opposition would have made little difference. Our current activities prove this, The current effort was completely shuned by all but a few of our closest Allies, but that didn't slow us down one bit, we have a mission and we executed regardless.

So I am saying that your contention that video like this AC-130 footage while it may be shocking is not likely to have any real political ramifications.
 
Being I am activley involved with the United States Department of Defense, and while this is not in any way an official endorsement of any kind of any views on this board, I personally do concur with Revlis's last statement.

Carry on..... uhh pass the beer now please muah ha ha

Rock on dude  
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War is a brutal thing
but I see this and it

re - affirms the respect
I have for everyone in

our armed forces .

That is some
amazing footage .










:banana:


 
Of course there were several things the Taliban feared...the list is longer than the things they weren't afraid of.

Those Predators and A-10s were to be feared.

The Taliban we captured told us they tried to avoid contact with Canadian troops whenever they could. Our uniforms were very similar to the ones worn by the Marines and our vehicles were similar as well.

Of course IEDs knew no boundaries.
 
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