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Bumblebee

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It's just a minor road coming onto a main suburban road.

A pipe dream for generations down the road, or for Never. The problem is capital, wealth, and in our world that means OIL. Even the total cornucopians believe the oil supply will be gone in the decades to come, only dregs, reserved for the military, for the wealthy and the politicians I assume. The great hope is that we crack some miracle like fusion but it's just a hope. There is every chance we revert to a low energy lifestyle like every other major civilization before ours. Our advanced culture vanishing like the Egyptians that built the pyramids, the Roman's that built a vast network of aqueducts and roads, massive sports stadiums and civic buildings. I know it's hard to accept but it's happened before as I cited. Happened every time an advanced culture ran out of free energy. Slaves, loot, or oil, Gas and uranium.

It will take a while though, but if you look around your own nation you can see the beginnings of it can't you. We aren't advancing anymore, were declining, from the value of a pension to the roads to the cost of food.
The concept of EV becoming a global source of transportation will never occur most likely due to the lack of funding to generate all the power generation and distribution it would require....

North America although vast in area is only a drop in the bucket for population density......if India, Pakistan, China and other countries with a large population were to go strictly to EV, that would make the biggest impact....we all know that will never happen though.....

As I drive around my community and see how damaged the roads are and cringe that before long I will be riding my motorcycle trying to avoid all the potholes, I think of the costs to repair these roads and reenforce them to take the constant weight that is associated with EV.

Zerks

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Without looking it up I’d say one of the German makers. By the way, the cams actuate it, but it’s the valves that actually lift.
Oh gosh, I’m being an a$$ again. Blame it on jellyrug. He made me this way.
Why didn't you just Google it and show me how smart you are? Instead you come up with another "marterdom" moment like the lefty you are known for. Jelly has his own challenges... he likely won't accept the blame coming from you... not today anyway... maybe tomorrow. :)

Zerks

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And he can't drive them on public roads. I guess he'll have to move over by the Nurburgring track, and at only 30 Euro a lap he could buy it out for a private morning's fun.

I see Tesla's stock price is down 50%, what a joke, the future of driving? Like all bubble stocks it's destined for the bankrupts court and that will piss off a lot of true believers. Another bigger fantasy is the autonomous driving revolution. A real non-starter but millions, hundreds of millions probably believed it would come to pass.

I remember many years ago stopping at a T-junction on a major 4 lane divided road, waiting for a gap to pull out. It entailed crossing the oncoming traffic from one direction then merging with the traffic coming down the other side. There was no "merging" lane either. The only way to cross in less than 20 minutes was to time it so that as you pulled out there was a gap in the near-side traffic and one about to appear on the far side. But the gap on the far side wasn't there yet, there were still cars almost at the junction. You crossed over, accelerating toward the cars and then slipped in behind them as they passed. It was all critical timing and your brain had to evaluate the speeds and positions of all these cars, and watch for indicators in case one car was going to change lanes. An AI (so called) would never commit to such a maneuver. It would see those cars coming on the other side and wait for them to pass, but by then the other cars coming down in the near lanes would be on top of you.

I have had to take some very radical actions to avoid crashes in my day, even breaking the law, crossing double lines etc. An autonomous car will simply slam the brakes on and hope for the best.


You think it's real devastating when the leftist that volunteer to do stupid stuff for idiots exercise their freedom to destroy personal / corporate property? They already caught the Molotov cocktail guy... he is looking at 20 years in prison... how brilliant was that? I am pretty sure they will make an example of what stupidness did for with him.

Do you really think Elon is crying over all of this? All this free publicity? Stock price woes? Well, if you have sort term mentality... I suppose it is bad, However... how much stock does Elon have to sell so he doesn't go broke?

Tesla is just one part of Elon's empire... I happen to believe he will come out looking good before you know it.

Just think... if you owned a security business... and you had the man power and people trained you could contact Tesla and see if they want to do a 30 day contract to protect the bigger charging stations with armed security. Even if it cost a little more that replacing damaged recharging stations the public that is driving Teslas would know they can get recharged and do it safely.... Is safety important to a customer base of a multi billion dollar enterprise?

If it makes you feel better... tell me what a dumb idea it is.

Zerks

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Without looking it up I’d say one of the German makers. By the way, the cams actuate it, but it’s the valves that actually lift.
Oh gosh, I’m being an a$$ again. Blame it on jellyrug. He made me this way.
Hyundai did it....

Bumblebee

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You think it's real devastating when the leftist that volunteer to do stupid stuff for idiots exercise their freedom to destroy personal / corporate property? They already caught the Molotov cocktail guy... he is looking at 20 years in prison... how brilliant was that? I am pretty sure they will make an example of what stupidness did for with him.

Do you really think Elon is crying over all of this? All this free publicity? Stock price woes? Well, if you have sort term mentality... I suppose it is bad, However... how much stock does Elon have to sell so he doesn't go broke?

Tesla is just one part of Elon's empire... I happen to believe he will come out looking good before you know it.

Just think... if you owned a security business... and you had the man power and people trained you could contact Tesla and see if they want to do a 30 day contract to protect the bigger charging stations with armed security. Even if it cost a little more that replacing damaged recharging stations the public that is driving Teslas would know they can get recharged and do it safely.... Is safety important to a customer base of a multi billion dollar enterprise?

If it makes you feel better... tell me what a dumb idea it is.
There's a reason why celebrities and business entrepreneurs like Musk stay as far away from politics as they can.....whichever alignment they join, the opposite alignment resents them for it...

Musk has most definitely globally hurt his brand and this will reach beyond Tesla....will it bankrupt him? Probably not but his image as an eccentric billionaire playing around with tech is no longer the image the world sees and that will hurt him.

China and the US are the biggest retail markets for Tesla and China is pissed off at the US right now.....Tesla will be collateral damage...

Many of the smaller markets are also pissed off with the US and Musk (especially the EU and Germany) so there will be large decline of Tesla sales there....it's already begun.

Playing in politics isn't good for a person like Musk who would have been far better to stay in his lines. There are lots of examples of other celebrities who have drawn their political alignment in the sand and their brands are also being hurt. Neutrality is the key but some are just too foolish to heed the warnings they were most likely given.

The actions of that individual who did that stupid thing and threw the molotov was done out of hate.....there are similar actions being taken around the world which shows how much hate is out there....that hate will be probably shown on showroom floors by having Teslas sit and stockpiling units instead of selling. A lot of Tesla employees are already laid off from what I've read.

...........not a good thing either.........

TallTom

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There's a reason why celebrities and business entrepreneurs like Musk stay as far away from politics as they can.....whichever alignment they join, the opposite alignment resents them for it...

Musk has most definitely globally hurt his brand and this will reach beyond Tesla....will it bankrupt him? Probably not but his image as an eccentric billionaire playing around with tech is no longer the image the world sees and that will hurt him.

China and the US are the biggest retail markets for Tesla and China is pissed off at the US right now.....Tesla will be collateral damage...

Many of the smaller markets are also pissed off with the US and Musk (especially the EU and Germany) so there will be large decline of Tesla sales there....it's already begun.

Playing in politics isn't good for a person like Musk who would have been far better to stay in his lines. There are lots of examples of other celebrities who have drawn their political alignment in the sand and their brands are also being hurt. Neutrality is the key but some are just too foolish to heed the warnings they were most likely given.

The actions of that individual who did that stupid thing and threw the molotov was done out of hate.....there are similar actions being taken around the world which shows how much hate is out there....that hate will be probably shown on showroom floors by having Teslas sit and stockpiling units instead of selling. A lot of Tesla employees are already laid off from what I've read.

...........not a good thing either.........
Or it could be that Teslas stock has been overpriced for years, which it has. And it could be that people that own his cars are realizing that they bought into the hype and have now begun to bail out on EVs.

Take Musk out of the equation of politics for a moment. It was long argued in this thread that Teslas aren't that great a car. And the way customers were treated by Tesla was not productive for its long term image.

I have no sympathy for TESLA shareholders. They have had an over valued stock long before now. Even Musk has told them so.

Rich people have been putting $$ and efforts into politics long before this administration.

But I do agree that staying out of politics would be wise for most professions. Hollywood has tried to shape American politics. They should just do their job, and try to entertain, rather than tell me how to shape my political views.

If you plan on turning this thread into another politics thread, I'd use caution. You already know what politics does for your mental health.

Red05

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Hyundai did it....
Pretty cool engineering. Changing the valve duration by changing the speed of the lobe.
I would definitely keep up on oil changes lol.
You didn’t phrase your question right but thanks for sharing that.

Bumblebee

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Or it could be that Teslas stock has been overpriced for years, which it has. And it could be that people that own his cars are realizing that they bought into the hype and have now begun to bail out on EVs.

Take Musk out of the equation of politics for a moment. It was long argued in this thread that Teslas aren't that great a car. And the way customers were treated by Tesla was not productive for its long term image.

I have no sympathy for TESLA shareholders. They have had an over valued stock long before now. Even Musk has told them so.

Rich people have been putting $$ and efforts into politics long before this administration.

But I do agree that staying out of politics would be wise for most professions. Hollywood has tried to shape American politics. They should just do their job, and try to entertain, rather than tell me how to shape my political views.

If you plan on turning this thread into another politics thread, I'd use caution. You already know what politics does for your mental health.
First of all............please stop bringing up my mental health as it's getting quite tiring and feels as though it is some sort of method to get a "dig" in against me...........thank you.
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.........and I am NOT turning this into another political thread and I agree that celebrities destroy their brand by getting involved with politics.....I've even read that many of them have been advised to avoid this but some have ignored this advise and tanked their career and reputation.
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However, I also agree that Tesla isn't a great product but even so, the support for any EV platform just isn't there and I feel it won't be in the near future.....

TallTom

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First of all............please stop bringing up my mental health as it's getting quite tiring and feels as though it is some sort of method to get a "dig" in against me...........thank you.
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.........and I am NOT turning this into another political thread and I agree that celebrities destroy their brand by getting involved with politics.....I've even read that many of them have been advised to avoid this but some have ignored this advise and tanked their career and reputation.
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However, I also agree that Tesla isn't a great product but even so, the support for any EV platform just isn't there and I feel it won't be in the near future.....
It's not a dig Bee. I'm merely saying that we all need to prioritize what things we want to spend our time on from a how does it make you feel to do it. I make mental health decisions daily. Not because I have poor mental health, it's because some things aren't worth my mental time to engage in.

I'll give you an example that we have touched on.
I have zero issue placing chytheads on ignore. You prefer to not. I view that decision better for my mental health than you do. If I've lost respect for someone enough to place them on ignore, I don't have to deal with the disrespect any longer. That improves how I spend my time mentally with others here.

So please don't try and make my suggestion out as a dig. You yourself recognized you don't do well discussing politics. That's a recognition of how it made you feel from a mental health perspective. Totally nothing wrong with recognizing that individually. Bee some of the most healthy things we can do for ourselves is take care of our mental health as much as our physical health.

Red05

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Don’t listen to him, you can get better help from Wiki.
Did you bother reading your link? Porsche had the idea first but never built it. I worked on plenty of the Ecotecs with the electrically actuated rocker arms, but like everything else in existence, certainly you know better.

Bumblebee

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It's not a dig Bee. I'm merely saying that we all need to prioritize what things we want to spend our time on from a how does it make you feel to do it. I make mental health decisions daily. Not because I have poor mental health, it's because some things aren't worth my mental time to engage in.

I'll give you an example that we have touched on.
I have zero issue placing chytheads on ignore. You prefer to not. I view that decision better for my mental health than you do. If I've lost respect for someone enough to place them on ignore, I don't have to deal with the disrespect any longer. That improves how I spend my time mentally with others here.

So please don't try and make my suggestion out as a dig. You yourself recognized you don't do well discussing politics. That's a recognition of how it made you feel from a mental health perspective. Totally nothing wrong with recognizing that individually. Bee some of the most healthy things we can do for ourselves is take care of our mental health as much as our physical health.
Gotcha and understood...

I guess I'm too sensitive for my own good sometimes......I keep feeling there's still a stigmatism when it comes to mental health and admitting one has a problem......but should know better....

I don't do well discussing politics mainly because I'm new at doing so and I'm not well educated in the subject....

I've received a very good education today from one of my former colleagues who's hobby is studying politics.....especially American politics....

Bumblebee

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Did you bother reading your link? Porsche had the idea first but never built it. I worked on plenty of the Ecotecs with the electrically actuated rocker arms, but like everything else in existence, certainly you know better.
Because Hyundai poached German engineers from Audi/BMW perhaps they brought some tech ideas with them.....?

jellyrug

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Did you bother reading your link? Porsche had the idea first but never built it. I worked on plenty of the Ecotecs with the electrically actuated rocker arms, but like everything else in existence, certainly you know better.
I was just being funny.
You were right, the idea started in Germany and then went everywhere.
Sorry my humor blew your head gasket. I’ll try a torque wrench next time.

TallTom

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Gotcha and understood...

I guess I'm too sensitive for my own good sometimes......I keep feeling there's still a stigmatism when it comes to mental health and admitting one has a problem......but should know better....

I don't do well discussing politics mainly because I'm new at doing so and I'm not well educated in the subject....

I've received a very good education today from one of my former colleagues who's hobby is studying politics.....especially American politics....
There is a stigma about mental health. And we as humans need to do better about that. There are certainly varying degrees of mental health issues. Some of those do deserve to have a stigma attached to them. If I had a child molester living near me, I would most definitely want to know about it. But if my next door neighbor has depression, due to a job less as an example, and is seeking help to deal with it, that is a healthy thing to keep private between them and their practitioner. It's not really my business. But I would offer them help if I could as a neighbor. That's not a stigma. That's an episode in their life that gave them some mental illness. Nothing wrong in admitting that.

Red05

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I was just being funny.
You were right, the idea started in Germany and then went everywhere.
Sorry my humor blew your head gasket. I’ll try a torque wrench next time.
Nah gasket is fine. You and I waver into aggression from time to time and I don't enjoy it. Believe I'm used to people not agreeing with me, especially on immigration, so I don't take it personally.

Oz22

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Do you really think Elon is crying over all of this? All this free publicity? Stock price woes? Well, if you have sort term mentality... I suppose it is bad, However... how much stock does Elon have to sell so he doesn't go broke?

Tesla is just one part of Elon's empire... I happen to believe he will come out looking good before you know it.
Of course he's not crying. He's already made his bucks from Tesla and pulled them out under the guise of buying twitter. Which was probably bank funded for the most part anyway. His remaining stock holdings can be sacrificed and he'll still be worth a hundred billion or so. The average person can't get their head around the fact that someone could walk away from half their wealth but he knows he can't take it out without crashing the company, and it was all Bubble wealth anyway so it's not like he worked hard for it. He has deep contacts in the swamp, it's why he has the NASA contract, why he's by Trump's side, he makes out like a bandit. The EV rise and fall has nothing to do with democrats or republicans btw, get that puppet show out of your brain. That's just a con job designed to convince you that the politicians are in control and not Wall street the banks and the major corporations. And I include all the Privately held ones in that as well, like Cargill.

As a private company, Cargill doesn't publicly disclose a specific valuation, but its 2023 revenue was $177 billion, Tesla revenue in 2023 was $96 Billion and not much more last year either. Publicly listed companies are for the ripping off of the masses now. All the real wealth is secure in private hands.
Cargill is a family company providing food, ingredients, agricultural solutions and industrial products to nourish the world.

There were several reasons this EV scam was foisted on the world but possibly the most salient was to maintain confidence in the driving culture which underpins everything else. Without a car the suburbs become impractical, people can't get to the supermarket, get to work, get anywhere. It allowed the mortgage mills and all else to continue apace because people had confidence they would always have a car. How would people react if they thought that once the oil began to decline rapidly they'd lose access to their cars? One solution would be to move to a small town in a food growing region that's well serviced, but for many it would be a move to an inner city apartment perhaps? Anywhere but a suburb 3 miles from the supermarket.

Either way, the very idea we might not be driving cars in 20 or 30 years would lead to major upsets in markets and industries as people began planning their future around the event, planning their children's futures for it. Of course to accept that you'd have to admit that Oil is a finite resource and many people simply can't get their heads around that either. They assume tomorrow will be much like today. "They will think of something" Well I suggest that "They" have though of something. It just doesn't include you and I prospering. In their eyes we are worker bees, cannon fodder, the unwashed masses like all those young ukrainian men sacrificed in an unwinnable war. How do "they" think of us? How do we think of the underpaid laborers in the sweatshops of Bangladesh that make half our clothes? We don't consider them at all. They mean nothing to us unless we get a loose thread in our shirt, then we might roundly curse them for being incompetent. Are we grateful they work for a dollar a day so we can have cheap clothes? That's how Trump, Musk, and all the other wealthy elite think of us. And what they say in front of the camera is meaningless.

Bumblebee

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There is a stigma about mental health. And we as humans need to do better about that. There are certainly varying degrees of mental health issues. Some of those do deserve to have a stigma attached to them. If I had a child molester living near me, I would most definitely want to know about it. But if my next door neighbor has depression, due to a job less as an example, and is seeking help to deal with it, that is a healthy thing to keep private between them and their practitioner. It's not really my business. But I would offer them help if I could as a neighbor. That's not a stigma. That's an episode in their life that gave them some mental illness. Nothing wrong in admitting that.
My wife told me I needed to get some help when I was still in uniform and I also knew there was something wrong but I will tell you that it took all I had to walk to the Mental Health center on base in uniform and even more to talk to the psychiatrist and admit something was wrong.......there was a stigma of weakness in going there....and all the intense training I took to create a mental barrier was hard to crack through.......

The psychiatrist saw my rank and what unit I used to be in and agreed that I had PTSD but sluffed it off.....I really didn't get the help I needed until after I got out of the military and went to a specialized clinic that treats primarily special forces people.

5 years of that and it sure helped....I don't go to anymore sessions and sometimes I almost feel that I am reverting back but I learned enough self-help therapy while there that I can work through things on my own........

TallTom

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My wife told me I needed to get some help when I was still in uniform and I also knew there was something wrong but I will tell you that it took all I had to walk to the Mental Health center on base in uniform and even more to talk to the psychiatrist and admit something was wrong.......there was a stigma of weakness in going there....and all the intense training I took to create a mental barrier was hard to crack through.......

The psychiatrist saw my rank and what unit I used to be in and agreed that I had PTSD but sluffed it off.....I really didn't get the help I needed until after I got out of the military and went to a specialized clinic that treats primarily special forces people.

5 years of that and it sure helped....I don't go to anymore sessions and sometimes I almost feel that I am reverting back but I learned enough self-help therapy while there that I can work through things on my own........
Yeah tough guys aren't allowed to crack. I don't know how or why your wife felt it needed to take that long but I trust she watched how you changed from the younger time to the later time. We can only wonder if it would have been easier had it happened earlier. You spent a long time keeping things in dark places inside you. It was in a way sort or normalized and probably contributed to how difficult stepping out of what became your own comfort zone when the time came. Fortunately you don't have to seek employment. For many a standard question asked is have you ever required any mental health intervention. People will lie rather than self penalize when they need a job to feed a family. I sometimes take on some combat vets to help give them a safe outlet to talk. I've had 24 year old kids that have had to do things in combat they can't shake. That nobody should ever have to do. I am reminded of one that was a gunner in a fast attack unit. He manned the 50 Cal on top. He had a wife and young son at home. He had to act fast to prevent a small child maybe 4-6 years old that was led by his mom to run in front of them with an IED on his body.

He had to pretty much cut them in half with that 50. He will never get over it. He saved American lives that day, but spent many months preferring he would have been killed that day rather than face his wife and child. His son was about the same age. He can't talk about it with them.

He was able to get some help to save his own feelings of self destruction. The military used to shun the PTSD realities. But they have since realized that they need to take that responsibility in and provide help to troops. Now here in the U.S. anyway they are the most well qualified source for PTSD causes and therapies. Now PTSD doesn't any longer have to be a result of combat trauma. A car accident can result in it. And now it's treated more readily.
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