OB_GSXRTURBO1
Registered
Yeah DP, but at one point you were twice as old, now that's not the case. Sounds to me like he's catching up to you. Eventually he may just pass you
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What a Joke (zx12r)
- Thread starter OB_jeffw
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G
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Well since you asked here is my limited review on the CycleWorld mag writeup:
[Begin Review]
CycleWorld doesn't provide any real tangable evidence to prove a restriction is in place. That is their hypothesis and the only explanation they can print other accusing Kawasaki of months of BS. That is the reason they put forth for the shortcomings. They reference an unnamed Kawasaki "source". (Probably the same source they used in the past that helped cause these problems in the first place.) Of course no official acknowlegement has ever come from Kawasaki. They point to the engine control unit and "possibly" final gearing. No hard evidence is provided and no reference to Muzzy being unable to locate a restrictor.
CW does say this : "Exactly how the power output of the engine was reduced we DON'T KNOW. Was bhp attenuated over the whole rev range, or just on top? Or only in 6th gear? Is it simply overgeared? KAWASAKI IS NOT SAYING."
A restrictor designed only to limit obtainable top speed would have no effect on hp, torque or acceleration up to the preset limit. This is the area where the truth is shown.
Cycleworld listed 156.6 hp @ 9500rpm and 90.3 ft lbs of torque @ 7500rpm for their 12.
June 99 they listed 160.5 hp for the Busa and about 100 ft lbs of torque. Gee - I wonder if that would make a difference?! Do you suppose it's possible that the 12 won't run 9.3 sec quarter mile times and hit 208 mph on the top because IT DOESN'T MAKE ENOUGH POWER?! I wish they had published same day dyno numbers from the 2000 Busa they had on hand that outran the 12. I think there was a good reason they didn't. They did say they don't believe their US 00' Busa was restricted since it hit 191.
It all seems so simple some people just can't comprehend. The power required for the bike to exceed the Busa is just not there. IF there were a top speed limiter in place then it is at minimum a 191 mph limiter since we know of two run's where the 12 has seen > 190 < 191. If a 191 mph top speed limiter was installed then why did Kawasaki themselves spend the better part of a day attempting time and time again to better an early 190.8 mph run on the 12? That would be pretty silly wouldn't it? Kind of like beating your head on a brick wall in hopes the next headbash will break through knowing full well that is not possible.
Quarter Mile Runs - I wondered if at least one of the mags would request the services of one of the top professional drag racers in the world to test their 12. CycleWorld did - R Gadson. Not only is he a great dragracer but he has experience dragging a 12. I wouldn't be surprised if that decision was made after it became clear that the 12 fell short in dethroning the Busa on top speed. I believe they (CW) thought they could salvage something with an incredible 1/4 mile time by one of the best pro Kawasaki factory paid drag racers that would better the CW 9.86 sec Busa run last year. It flopped. Gadson could run no better than 10.06 @ 142 on CW's 12. Not only is that not as quick as the 99' Busa run but the trap speed is SLOWER. After MODIFICATIONS were made to the showroom stock 12 Gadson's best was 9.89 @ 142 - still not as quick as the 99' CW STOCK Busa. Also - the CW 99' Busa tests were NOT performed by a pro drag racer. If they had been the difference would have been greater.
Another item of interest(controversy) on the 12: CW - "Catalyzer actually BOOSTS engine output by allowing more aggresive cam timing"
I don't know whether that is true or not but I do know for fact that more aggresive cams do raise emmission output levels. It appears to me that the 12 would NOT have passed EPA standards with the cams that were selected without a cat. In other words the cat was neccessary - not something that was added specifically to restrict or just to be nice to the environmentalists.
In summary - the 12 has come up short in hp and torque required to surpass the goal. (The Busa). If restrictions were used to limit the performance of the 12 they would have to be limiting the hp and torque output of the motor since that is the real shortcoming. (aerodynamics and ram air aside)
In other words the claim would/should be that the 12 originally made so much power it would run 208 mph and 9.3 sec 1/4 mile but it was purposely DETUNED so it wouldn't outrun a Busa. Does this read as ridiculous as it appears when writing?! The 12 makes about the same hp as the Busa and less torque. There is no mystery to me in the stats.
The REAL question is whether this was Kawasaki's intention all along or not? No independently certified STOCK 12 has ever run above 190.8 mph [Kaw made that run themselves] and the very high 9 run by Motorcyclist is the only ZX12 1/4 mile test I've seen published that was not in the low 10 second range. Did I miss a test? I'm glad I don't have to worry about it. I'll just keep my Busa and sleep well at nights.
I found it amusing that CW used an entire full page/separate segment to outline the reasons that top speed aren't really that important after all. We didn't get one of those on the Busa tests!
My favorite part of the CW article:
Quote from R Gadson after falling short on his 1/4 mile runs: " Maybe the conditions could have been better - but anything I say is going to come across like a lie or an EXCUSE. And I don't want that."
That's what is known as CLASS. How can you not like that guy?
[End Review]
[Begin Review]
CycleWorld doesn't provide any real tangable evidence to prove a restriction is in place. That is their hypothesis and the only explanation they can print other accusing Kawasaki of months of BS. That is the reason they put forth for the shortcomings. They reference an unnamed Kawasaki "source". (Probably the same source they used in the past that helped cause these problems in the first place.) Of course no official acknowlegement has ever come from Kawasaki. They point to the engine control unit and "possibly" final gearing. No hard evidence is provided and no reference to Muzzy being unable to locate a restrictor.
CW does say this : "Exactly how the power output of the engine was reduced we DON'T KNOW. Was bhp attenuated over the whole rev range, or just on top? Or only in 6th gear? Is it simply overgeared? KAWASAKI IS NOT SAYING."
A restrictor designed only to limit obtainable top speed would have no effect on hp, torque or acceleration up to the preset limit. This is the area where the truth is shown.
Cycleworld listed 156.6 hp @ 9500rpm and 90.3 ft lbs of torque @ 7500rpm for their 12.
June 99 they listed 160.5 hp for the Busa and about 100 ft lbs of torque. Gee - I wonder if that would make a difference?! Do you suppose it's possible that the 12 won't run 9.3 sec quarter mile times and hit 208 mph on the top because IT DOESN'T MAKE ENOUGH POWER?! I wish they had published same day dyno numbers from the 2000 Busa they had on hand that outran the 12. I think there was a good reason they didn't. They did say they don't believe their US 00' Busa was restricted since it hit 191.
It all seems so simple some people just can't comprehend. The power required for the bike to exceed the Busa is just not there. IF there were a top speed limiter in place then it is at minimum a 191 mph limiter since we know of two run's where the 12 has seen > 190 < 191. If a 191 mph top speed limiter was installed then why did Kawasaki themselves spend the better part of a day attempting time and time again to better an early 190.8 mph run on the 12? That would be pretty silly wouldn't it? Kind of like beating your head on a brick wall in hopes the next headbash will break through knowing full well that is not possible.
Quarter Mile Runs - I wondered if at least one of the mags would request the services of one of the top professional drag racers in the world to test their 12. CycleWorld did - R Gadson. Not only is he a great dragracer but he has experience dragging a 12. I wouldn't be surprised if that decision was made after it became clear that the 12 fell short in dethroning the Busa on top speed. I believe they (CW) thought they could salvage something with an incredible 1/4 mile time by one of the best pro Kawasaki factory paid drag racers that would better the CW 9.86 sec Busa run last year. It flopped. Gadson could run no better than 10.06 @ 142 on CW's 12. Not only is that not as quick as the 99' Busa run but the trap speed is SLOWER. After MODIFICATIONS were made to the showroom stock 12 Gadson's best was 9.89 @ 142 - still not as quick as the 99' CW STOCK Busa. Also - the CW 99' Busa tests were NOT performed by a pro drag racer. If they had been the difference would have been greater.
Another item of interest(controversy) on the 12: CW - "Catalyzer actually BOOSTS engine output by allowing more aggresive cam timing"
I don't know whether that is true or not but I do know for fact that more aggresive cams do raise emmission output levels. It appears to me that the 12 would NOT have passed EPA standards with the cams that were selected without a cat. In other words the cat was neccessary - not something that was added specifically to restrict or just to be nice to the environmentalists.
In summary - the 12 has come up short in hp and torque required to surpass the goal. (The Busa). If restrictions were used to limit the performance of the 12 they would have to be limiting the hp and torque output of the motor since that is the real shortcoming. (aerodynamics and ram air aside)
In other words the claim would/should be that the 12 originally made so much power it would run 208 mph and 9.3 sec 1/4 mile but it was purposely DETUNED so it wouldn't outrun a Busa. Does this read as ridiculous as it appears when writing?! The 12 makes about the same hp as the Busa and less torque. There is no mystery to me in the stats.
The REAL question is whether this was Kawasaki's intention all along or not? No independently certified STOCK 12 has ever run above 190.8 mph [Kaw made that run themselves] and the very high 9 run by Motorcyclist is the only ZX12 1/4 mile test I've seen published that was not in the low 10 second range. Did I miss a test? I'm glad I don't have to worry about it. I'll just keep my Busa and sleep well at nights.
I found it amusing that CW used an entire full page/separate segment to outline the reasons that top speed aren't really that important after all. We didn't get one of those on the Busa tests!
My favorite part of the CW article:
Quote from R Gadson after falling short on his 1/4 mile runs: " Maybe the conditions could have been better - but anything I say is going to come across like a lie or an EXCUSE. And I don't want that."
That's what is known as CLASS. How can you not like that guy?
[End Review]
Yea....well i heard that ricky gadson was holding his foot on the rear brake during those test. cycle world set this up with him because they're planning to retest in 45 days. They did it like this so all the hee's and hoho's will run and buy thrie magazine again to boost sales before mid year. smart move i'd say! I'm not real sure if i trust gadson though, he told all of us on dragbike.com that the 12 will show us all. he said, you'll see.
well, i don't know if i should like you or laugh at you rickey gadson. you should tell us if it was you or kawasaki this time ricky?
well, i don't know if i should like you or laugh at you rickey gadson. you should tell us if it was you or kawasaki this time ricky?
OB_Ninjaknight
Registered
Clap clap clap Thank you Todd!
Once again it is Todd who sees through the smoke screen set up by Kawasaki and Cycle World and all the other malefactors who attempt to steal the top speed crown from Suzuki.
I would not give Cycle World Todd's number Frank he is way ahead of them. Todd needs to start his own magazine and I already have the name.
"Todd's World"
The only problem I see with circulation is that each months edition would be the size of a NY City phone book by the time he gets around to his point.
Once again it is Todd who sees through the smoke screen set up by Kawasaki and Cycle World and all the other malefactors who attempt to steal the top speed crown from Suzuki.
I would not give Cycle World Todd's number Frank he is way ahead of them. Todd needs to start his own magazine and I already have the name.
"Todd's World"
The only problem I see with circulation is that each months edition would be the size of a NY City phone book by the time he gets around to his point.
OB_Dirty Pete
Registered
Todd, you're a tenaciously logical debater. Good stuff. And BTW I agree with Frank...certainly in this instance.
IF the 12 were speed-limited in any way other than by gearing, it would be in Kawasaki's best (sales) interests to disclose that fact.
When speed limiters are put into place, either by voluntary manufacturers' agreements or by politicos, it becomes public knowledge. Everyone understands that European BMWs, Porsches and Mercedes are "electronically limited" to 155 mph.
I have driven speed limited bikes and cars, and the effect is so self-evident that there's no need for speculation.
The 12 isn't limited. It's just short on torque and aeros.
Until someone credible states that the bike is limited and by what means it's limited, it's not limited.
IF the 12 were speed-limited in any way other than by gearing, it would be in Kawasaki's best (sales) interests to disclose that fact.
When speed limiters are put into place, either by voluntary manufacturers' agreements or by politicos, it becomes public knowledge. Everyone understands that European BMWs, Porsches and Mercedes are "electronically limited" to 155 mph.
I have driven speed limited bikes and cars, and the effect is so self-evident that there's no need for speculation.
The 12 isn't limited. It's just short on torque and aeros.
Until someone credible states that the bike is limited and by what means it's limited, it's not limited.
OB_Ninjaknight
Registered
"Tenaciously logical"! That is a perfect description! I personally liked doggedly stupid or profoundly delusional but I would never argue with DP.
DP says that the 12 is not limited as well! Now two of the worlds greatest authorities on motorcycles have spoken. Neither of them has even so much as ridden the 12. But they have made their decision and that is good enough for me.
I am canceling my subscription to Cycle World. They have been unearthed for what they really are.....conspiritors against the mighty Hayabusa!
DP says that the 12 is not limited as well! Now two of the worlds greatest authorities on motorcycles have spoken. Neither of them has even so much as ridden the 12. But they have made their decision and that is good enough for me.
I am canceling my subscription to Cycle World. They have been unearthed for what they really are.....conspiritors against the mighty Hayabusa!
Frank Adams
Registered
BadBoy, "hehe's and hoho's"....would you by chance be a Bull rider?
Also, you should click & paste your reply on Dragbike.com, I'm sure Rickey would enjoy answering up that reply??
I've said all along that the zx-12 wouldn't hold to the Busa, but that was just in comparing the two motors. The spec's were never there for the zx-12.
As far as being limited, (if it is at all) I'd say it's in the gearing or transmission?
But showroom for showroom, the zx-12 failed to make the grade to be in the same class as the Busa.
Cycle World needs to roll the zx-12 to the
R-1 camp next time?!
Nice Posting Todd!
Also, you should click & paste your reply on Dragbike.com, I'm sure Rickey would enjoy answering up that reply??
I've said all along that the zx-12 wouldn't hold to the Busa, but that was just in comparing the two motors. The spec's were never there for the zx-12.
As far as being limited, (if it is at all) I'd say it's in the gearing or transmission?
But showroom for showroom, the zx-12 failed to make the grade to be in the same class as the Busa.
Cycle World needs to roll the zx-12 to the
R-1 camp next time?!
Nice Posting Todd!
That is the page I was referencing all along Ninjaknight. Fast Bikes mentions it also.
Fast Bikes mentions that the JAMA-Japanese Auto Manufacturing Assoc. got together to ponder the course of action and, after much pondering over imposing a voluntary 300KMH upper speed limit to appease the critics (a smidge lower than the top speed of the current speed king the Hayabusa), no "official" verdict was reached (or at least publicised.
We don't know for sure, but I wonder.
Fast Bikes mentions that the JAMA-Japanese Auto Manufacturing Assoc. got together to ponder the course of action and, after much pondering over imposing a voluntary 300KMH upper speed limit to appease the critics (a smidge lower than the top speed of the current speed king the Hayabusa), no "official" verdict was reached (or at least publicised.
We don't know for sure, but I wonder.
G
Guest
No we don't know for sure. I'm sceptical that one exists since no one seems to be able to produce such device in place specifically to limit. The stock gearing and exhaust used on a bike are preferential decisions made by the manufacturer. The simple truth is that the 12 is not making the torque/hp in any gear to exceed the multitude of test results published. I noticed that a Kaw engineer was quoted in a Canadian publication claiming +12 hp for the 12 ramair setup. That's also a far cry from some of the claims we've seen here. 2001 is supposed to bring real restrictions for both bikes. It will be interesting but sad to see how that is done and how it compares to the current models. Will the 2001 restrictions affect top speed only in 6th gear or will other areas be compromised as well? Will this restiction be removable? Will it be a consistant restriction where the limitation is seen at about the same point on every production model? Cars that are currently resticted are easily reecognized, repeatable and consistant. You won't see 6-8 mph difference from one model to the next or different speeds on different days. They are abrupt when they kick in and the only instance where the limit can be exceeded is by momentum between the time the limiter activates and the car begins to slow. Even then it is only a very small amount - like 2 mph. That is due to the lag time waitng for the car to slow and due to the acceleration the car was still under when the limiter activated. You can bounce off of the governer over and over much the same as a rev limiter - but it's a slower process at top speed of course. They are also removable via ECU modifications/governer removal. Peak output is not compromised.[like quarter mile runs] Fuel and/or timing is cut at a specified top speed. Even a Honda Civic has a limiter due to the speed rating of the tires and it is clearly evident when the limiter is hit. It feels as if the car has been shut off or the clutch pedal was pushed in. Factory warranty is also voided if ECU is modified.
[This message has been edited by Todd (edited 25 April 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Todd (edited 25 April 2000).]
OB_Ninjaknight
Registered
Well.....there you have it! The 12 is not restricted. I am glad that Todd knows everything because that Cycle World article sure had me fooled.
What do the editors at Cycle World know. I mean the only actually rode the bike and tested it. Then they went to all the trouble to clearly state that the bike was limited and dedicated a whole page to why it was limited.
I think that Cycle World wastes too much time testing bikes. What they should do in the future is just ask Todd because he knows everything.
Again, This has nothing to do with pissing contests. This has everything to do with regulation of our sport.
[This message has been edited by Ninjaknight (edited 25 April 2000).]
What do the editors at Cycle World know. I mean the only actually rode the bike and tested it. Then they went to all the trouble to clearly state that the bike was limited and dedicated a whole page to why it was limited.
I think that Cycle World wastes too much time testing bikes. What they should do in the future is just ask Todd because he knows everything.
Again, This has nothing to do with pissing contests. This has everything to do with regulation of our sport.
[This message has been edited by Ninjaknight (edited 25 April 2000).]
Frank Adams
Registered
Ninjaknight, will you send
"Cycle World" todd's ph# so they can get the right info?
I'd rather read Todds stuff anyways!
"Cycle World" todd's ph# so they can get the right info?
I'd rather read Todds stuff anyways!
G
Guest
Hey Bill instead of making new bets maybe you should pay up on the one you already owe on?! Nick is waiting and wants new mods!
OB_Bill Koz
Registered
Todd, I didn't see your name as the winner of any money. I don't think its any of you business, so please don't insinuate that I haven't paid my bet. I'd like to hear/see your apology after you find out if I paid.
Koz
[This message has been edited by Bill Koz (edited 26 April 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Bill Koz (edited 26 April 2000).]
Koz
[This message has been edited by Bill Koz (edited 26 April 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Bill Koz (edited 26 April 2000).]
OB_Bill Koz
Registered
I guess if you don't own a busa or don't agree with busaland's option, your not welcome here. I hope this is not the way it is!
Koz
Koz
OB_busa 2000
Registered
hello, i have a reply to everyone who thinks the 12 is limited. it seems to be limited only when it doesn't perform too well, what's it limited to? 185? it ran 182 for mcn, 187 for cycleworld, 190.6 for mcn again so what is it supposed to be limited to? any takers? i just read somewhere that the 12 was
going to run 217mph and turn low 9's,we all know that was a joke! hell with gadson riding it only turned low 10's not 9's because i don't count straping down the front to count for stock, why didn't they have gadson ride the 1300 on that day with it straped down and then with out being straped? they say the 12 didn't run to red line hell when the busa ran 194 and 195 mph for cycleworld and then a spanish mag it didn't pull red line either but you don't hear me complaining about it nor did cycle word report it but the spanish mag did. this bike was so hyped from the start i suprized cycle world didn't retract the story and modify the 12 then test it. the restriction i see is from cycle world dedicating a page to make all the excuses in the world why the 12 didn't beat the busa.
koz give it a rest the busa is still the king you want to modify go ahead modify the 12 i'll modify the busa we'll still have more cc's to work with than the 12 will .
going to run 217mph and turn low 9's,we all know that was a joke! hell with gadson riding it only turned low 10's not 9's because i don't count straping down the front to count for stock, why didn't they have gadson ride the 1300 on that day with it straped down and then with out being straped? they say the 12 didn't run to red line hell when the busa ran 194 and 195 mph for cycleworld and then a spanish mag it didn't pull red line either but you don't hear me complaining about it nor did cycle word report it but the spanish mag did. this bike was so hyped from the start i suprized cycle world didn't retract the story and modify the 12 then test it. the restriction i see is from cycle world dedicating a page to make all the excuses in the world why the 12 didn't beat the busa.
koz give it a rest the busa is still the king you want to modify go ahead modify the 12 i'll modify the busa we'll still have more cc's to work with than the 12 will .
G
Guest
Hey tough guy - the bets and payments are publicly posted as specified in the rules that you agreed to when you made the bet.
Unless your money arrived since yesterday then you still owe Nick for the bet you lost. You're the one who foolishly highly overestimated the 12 not us. Find someone else to cry to.
Gixx1300R
Bad *** Member posted April 25, 2000 03:19 PM
I recieved my first 2 payment from the betting pool.Thanks Ducmanic,Johnny cheeze.I will keep you guys posted as I recieve the checks or money Orders.Thanks Again guys.So far I have not heard from.
Fast Eddie
VIOL8R
BADBUSA
YNGVE
KOZ-is this Bill Koz?
PHANTOM
[This message has been edited by Todd (edited 26 April 2000).]
Unless your money arrived since yesterday then you still owe Nick for the bet you lost. You're the one who foolishly highly overestimated the 12 not us. Find someone else to cry to.
Gixx1300R
Bad *** Member posted April 25, 2000 03:19 PM
I recieved my first 2 payment from the betting pool.Thanks Ducmanic,Johnny cheeze.I will keep you guys posted as I recieve the checks or money Orders.Thanks Again guys.So far I have not heard from.
Fast Eddie
VIOL8R
BADBUSA
YNGVE
KOZ-is this Bill Koz?
PHANTOM
[This message has been edited by Todd (edited 26 April 2000).]
OB_Ninjaknight
Registered
Good thing we have Todd here to tattle on people!
Uh DanaT…..? Couple of problems. First show me where I stated that I owned a 12? I can show you where I stated that I had no intention of buying one this year. In fact I stated that I would never buy a first year production bike I have been there and done that and it wasn’t pretty. I have also stated on numerous occasions that I may purchase a Hayabusa or a 12 or a bike made by another manufacturer I do not believe in brand loyalty because they all have made junk. I can assure you that if and when I do buy another new bike top speed will not be the deciding factor. Do you know why Dana? Because unlike many of you I am honest with myself. I realize that I generally do not even get my bike over 90mph on my commute to work. The reason for this is because my daily commute does not begin on a starting grid with someone holding an umbrella over my head. My day starts in a garage and ends up in a parking lot where I work. I have in the past touted the 12 and I have even quoted the commercial because I enjoy watching some people foam at the mouth because some of you get silly if another bike is mentioned.
As for dyno racing DanaT knock yourself out. My brother in law calls the dyno in his shop the “cash cowâ€. He laughs about the number of idiots who are willing to pay huge amounts of money for him to pummel their bikes, destroy tires and keep his service area busy putting on aftermarket pipes just to get a “brag sheet†from him that says whatever he wants it to.
I know that you are a rocket scientist but re-read your own half-baked litmus test. How would a dyno unearth a limitation with the gearing?
Feel stupid yet?
My point for the fifteenth time has been about misguided politicians not the pissing contest. The pissing contest for most of you is based upon the fact that your personal self worth is solely based upon the performance of a motorcycle that anyone can buy. You are so delusional that some of you think that CW is part of the conspiracy against the Hayabusa.
Earl: I was being facetious when I said I was canceling my CW subscription I have enjoyed CW for over 20 years. I don’t really believe that DP and Todd know more than CW editors. I don’t take issue with CW for criticizing the 12 because I did not build it.
Now let’s see if we can get 50 more members who have never even ridden the 12 explain why they know that CW is lying about the 12 being limited.
Remember “Oh my god†is in the details!
Hahahahahaha
Uh DanaT…..? Couple of problems. First show me where I stated that I owned a 12? I can show you where I stated that I had no intention of buying one this year. In fact I stated that I would never buy a first year production bike I have been there and done that and it wasn’t pretty. I have also stated on numerous occasions that I may purchase a Hayabusa or a 12 or a bike made by another manufacturer I do not believe in brand loyalty because they all have made junk. I can assure you that if and when I do buy another new bike top speed will not be the deciding factor. Do you know why Dana? Because unlike many of you I am honest with myself. I realize that I generally do not even get my bike over 90mph on my commute to work. The reason for this is because my daily commute does not begin on a starting grid with someone holding an umbrella over my head. My day starts in a garage and ends up in a parking lot where I work. I have in the past touted the 12 and I have even quoted the commercial because I enjoy watching some people foam at the mouth because some of you get silly if another bike is mentioned.
As for dyno racing DanaT knock yourself out. My brother in law calls the dyno in his shop the “cash cowâ€. He laughs about the number of idiots who are willing to pay huge amounts of money for him to pummel their bikes, destroy tires and keep his service area busy putting on aftermarket pipes just to get a “brag sheet†from him that says whatever he wants it to.
I know that you are a rocket scientist but re-read your own half-baked litmus test. How would a dyno unearth a limitation with the gearing?
Feel stupid yet?
My point for the fifteenth time has been about misguided politicians not the pissing contest. The pissing contest for most of you is based upon the fact that your personal self worth is solely based upon the performance of a motorcycle that anyone can buy. You are so delusional that some of you think that CW is part of the conspiracy against the Hayabusa.
Earl: I was being facetious when I said I was canceling my CW subscription I have enjoyed CW for over 20 years. I don’t really believe that DP and Todd know more than CW editors. I don’t take issue with CW for criticizing the 12 because I did not build it.
Now let’s see if we can get 50 more members who have never even ridden the 12 explain why they know that CW is lying about the 12 being limited.
Remember “Oh my god†is in the details!
Hahahahahaha
Ninjadude,
You are very cleaver.
The dyno does not take any consideration into account if the bike is limited on its top speed by gearing.
What we are talking about is not a gearing limited speed. What we are talking about is power (or drag) limited speed and speed restrictors. If you get rid of the drag you are then only limited to RPM and/or speed restrictors. If the ZX12 will pull near redline on a dyno and won't pull redline on the street we knwo the bike is power/drag limited up top. If it falls on its face short of redline on a dyno without drag at 186 then we know the speed restrictor is there.
This isn't a question of gearing. I am not the one taunting the disillusion that the ZX12 is artifically restricted. Why don't we have a ZX12 owner ready to nut up on this? This is simply a question of determining if a restrictor is on the 12s. My reasoning that no 12 owner wants to nut up is that they don't want to see the results.
-Dana
You are very cleaver.
The dyno does not take any consideration into account if the bike is limited on its top speed by gearing.
What we are talking about is not a gearing limited speed. What we are talking about is power (or drag) limited speed and speed restrictors. If you get rid of the drag you are then only limited to RPM and/or speed restrictors. If the ZX12 will pull near redline on a dyno and won't pull redline on the street we knwo the bike is power/drag limited up top. If it falls on its face short of redline on a dyno without drag at 186 then we know the speed restrictor is there.
This isn't a question of gearing. I am not the one taunting the disillusion that the ZX12 is artifically restricted. Why don't we have a ZX12 owner ready to nut up on this? This is simply a question of determining if a restrictor is on the 12s. My reasoning that no 12 owner wants to nut up is that they don't want to see the results.
-Dana
Ninjadude,
An open challenge for you. Saturday a local dealer (Twin Peaks Powersports) here in Denver is having a dyno day. $10 dyno runs. Heres the challenge. Have a ZX12 show up. If it pulls past 186mph...he pays for the dyno run and I get to post the dyno sheet. IF it falls flat at 186 then I pay for the dyno run and I will still post the dyno sheet and admit that I was wrong.
This is a great test as the Zx12 should be down about 25% on power so if it pulls past 186 here on a dyno we know for sure that it is not restricted but power limited.
-Dana
An open challenge for you. Saturday a local dealer (Twin Peaks Powersports) here in Denver is having a dyno day. $10 dyno runs. Heres the challenge. Have a ZX12 show up. If it pulls past 186mph...he pays for the dyno run and I get to post the dyno sheet. IF it falls flat at 186 then I pay for the dyno run and I will still post the dyno sheet and admit that I was wrong.
This is a great test as the Zx12 should be down about 25% on power so if it pulls past 186 here on a dyno we know for sure that it is not restricted but power limited.
-Dana
OB_Ninjaknight
Registered
Just post the address Dana!
I am going to send 5 green and 5 red 12's out there pronto.
When they are done on the dyno we will have them wrestle the Busa in a vat of Jello!
If the 12 is restricted Bill Koz gets to tattle on Todd to CW for saying they were conspiritors.
I am going to send 5 green and 5 red 12's out there pronto.
When they are done on the dyno we will have them wrestle the Busa in a vat of Jello!
If the 12 is restricted Bill Koz gets to tattle on Todd to CW for saying they were conspiritors.
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