To all the LEO's

that is a crappy situation to be in and i hope i never have to deal with it. as you know different circumstances call for different enforcement actions and thankfully, outside of a few statutes here and there, we are afforded the ability of discretion. hell... they give us a gun at least they can allow us to exercise our own judgement at times.

not that any of the following really matters but what time was it? how crowded was the roadway? how far from his destination was he? again, totality of the circumstances can dictate enforcement. like you stated, even though he was nice about it that doesn't make it easier to do what you did and people who aren't on the job can never fully understand what that feels like (i have arrested a current sworn LEO for domestic battery so i know from experience). even we at times do not like the job we hve to do but it is what we took an oath to do.

no matter what anyone says to the contrary you did the right thing and protected the citizens you were on duty to protect. now... a dangerous driver was taken off of the roadway like should have been done, but that also doesn't mean that you can't talk to the prosecuting attorney when it comes to court time and make sure the suspension and fines are minimal for someone who put his life on the line every day/night he went to work for 20+ years.
 
Thanks for all the kind words everyone. As far as where the line is drawn for cops on things such as speeding citations or things of that nature, there is a definite line. A speeding citation is a civil infraction, i let plenty of people off with warnings, more than what i write. Do cops get breaks, for sure. On the other side, a DUI is a misdemeanor criminal infraction, and arrestable offense, so no breaks there. As everyone else said, driving with that kind of BAC could have been a fatal mistake for him or many other people, luckily it wasnt this time. :rulez:

Do i feel bad, of course, do i think i did the right thing, yes.
 
You did the right thing. My uncle arrested my cousin (both cops for the same dept.) and my cousin ended up losing his job over the situation. It was hard for my uncle to do, but they both got over it and still talk to each other. My cousin was an outstanding cop and had earned many of awards, but he got the unfortunate end of dating a girl that was underage and her dad found out.
 
muskrat said:
that is a crappy situation to be in and i hope i never have to deal with it. as you know different circumstances call for different enforcement actions and thankfully, outside of a few statutes here and there, we are afforded the ability of discretion. hell... they give us a gun at least they can allow us to exercise our own judgement at times.

not that any of the following really matters but what time was it? how crowded was the roadway? how far from his destination was he? again, totality of the circumstances can dictate enforcement. like you stated, even though he was nice about it that doesn't make it easier to do what you did and people who aren't on the job can never fully understand what that feels like (i have arrested a current sworn LEO for domestic battery so i know from experience). even we at times do not like the job we hve to do but it is what we took an oath to do.

no matter what anyone says to the contrary you did the right thing and protected the citizens you were on duty to protect. now... a dangerous driver was taken off of the roadway like should have been done, but that also doesn't mean that you can't talk to the prosecuting attorney when it comes to court time and make sure the suspension and fines are minimal for someone who put his life on the line every day/night he went to work for 20+ years.
Click to expand...

So, because he's a former officer, he deserves a break? I'm sorry, I know it's a tough job, and I respect all the good cops out there. It's not a job I would want and I appreciate everyone out there that does it. But I can't tell you how mad it makes me when I see a cop cruisin down the hwy at 85 in a 65 just because he can. If it were me, I'd be getting a ticket, but just cause he has a badge and a car he gets a break. No blue lights, no emergency, just feels like driving faster. But then I've been told by some EMT's that they've been pulled over before for speeding while having a patient in the back on the way to the hospitle. I'd be pretty pissed if I was the family of that person if they died on the way to the hospitle because some officer decided to pull em over. I don't mean to sound disrespectful or anything like that. As I stated before I have the utmost respect for good cops. On the other hand, I don't think there should be any breaks for cops. Lead by example. If you're going to hand out tickets for speeding, then don't speed unless you're on the way to a call blue lights flashin. Needless to say I think Brian did the right thing taking that guy to jail and stopping an inevitible crash, most likely fatal. And I don't think that distance from home or anything like that should have any influence on the decision to take a drunk in. If you do that, you're just rewarding them for getting that far while drunk, and basically giving them another, better, reason to do it again. I'm sure I'm going to get some flaming for this post, but please remember what I've stated 2 times already and am about to state a 3rd. I have complete respect for good officers. HOWEVER I have no respect for blatant dissregard for the law simply because you wear a badge. And that includes speeding. It is the LEGAL LIMIT. Just like .08 is the LEGAL LIMIT. So if you're going to give me a ticket for speeding, then you had better not speed. After all, without me, you wouldn't have a car to pull anyone over in. I keep your cars working. (along with several other people out there. I'm a service tech)
 
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BUSA159 said:
you did the right thing, never think other wise, a drunk is a drunk. and will kill randomly.

He has a serious alcohol problem. He may get some help now.

Remember the statistics relating to BAC over .15 and fatality/serious injury crashes.

Remember this, at minimum you saved his life,,,,, who knows who's father, mother,sister, brother, friend you saved. Innocent people are now going to live the rest of their lives with one less funeral or debilitating traffic collision related injury.
This is the thankless part of the job. You altered peoples lives and there is no way to know it.

Thank you for your service brother.
Click to expand...


+ 1 very well said.
 
gmmech07 said:
So, because he's a former officer, he deserves a break? I'm sorry, I know it's a tough job, and I respect all the good cops out there. It's not a job I would want and I appreciate everyone out there that does it. But I can't tell you how mad it makes me when I see a cop cruisin down the hwy at 85 in a 65 just because he can. If it were me, I'd be getting a ticket, but just cause he has a badge and a car he gets a break. No blue lights, no emergency, just feels like driving faster. But then I've been told by some EMT's that they've been pulled over before for speeding while having a patient in the back on the way to the hospitle. I'd be pretty pissed if I was the family of that person if they died on the way to the hospitle because some officer decided to pull em over. I don't mean to sound disrespectful or anything like that. As I stated before I have the utmost respect for good cops. On the other hand, I don't think there should be any breaks for cops. Lead by example. If you're going to hand out tickets for speeding, then don't speed unless you're on the way to a call blue lights flashin. Needless to say I think Brian did the right thing taking that guy to jail and stopping an inevitible crash, most likely fatal. And I don't think that distance from home or anything like that should have any influence on the decision to take a drunk in. If you do that, you're just rewarding them for getting that far while drunk, and basically giving them another, better, reason to do it again. I'm sure I'm going to get some flaming for this post, but please remember what I've stated 2 times already and am about to state a 3rd. I have complete respect for good officers. HOWEVER I have no respect for blatant dissregard for the law simply because you wear a badge. And that includes speeding. It is the LEGAL LIMIT. Just like .08 is the LEGAL LIMIT. So if you're going to give me a ticket for speeding, then you had better not speed. After all, without me, you wouldn't have a car to pull anyone over in. I keep your cars working. (along with several other people out there. I'm a service tech)
Click to expand...


i believe i said in my post that he did the right thing by arresting him... but maybe a break in court, absolutely. i have also told attorneys to go easier on people who were respectful and not LEO's as well, but depends on each case. and i was only asking the other questions as a matter to get a better feel of the entire situation (i'm a stickler for details that way).

as for the speeding without lights/sirens not every call requires a code 2 or 3 response (lights only, sirens and lights) but that doesn't mean that cops need to drive the posted limit on the way to a call that may require a little swifter of a response time. i'm not saying an LEO should go around driving mach 10 all the time either.

whether people like it or not, LEO's are afforded exceptions to following the law in the course of their duties. For example, here is the statute for IL (notice section C #3!):

(625 ILCS 5/11‑205) (from Ch. 95 1/2, par. 11‑205)
Sec. 11‑205. Public officers and employees to obey Act‑Exceptions.
(a) The provisions of this Chapter applicable to the drivers of vehicles upon the highways shall apply to the drivers of all vehicles owned or operated by the United States, this State or any county, city, town, district or any other political subdivision of the State, except as provided in this Section and subject to such specific exceptions as set forth in this Chapter with reference to authorized emergency vehicles.
(b) The driver of an authorized emergency vehicle, when responding to an emergency call or when in the pursuit of an actual or suspected violator of the law or when responding to but not upon returning from a fire alarm, may exercise the privileges set forth in this Section, but subject to the conditions herein stated.
(c) The driver of an authorized emergency vehicle may:
1. Park or stand, irrespective of the provisions of
this Chapter;

2. Proceed past a red or stop signal or stop sign,
but only after slowing down as may be required and necessary for safe operation;

3. Exceed the maximum speed limits so long as he
does not endanger life or property;

4. Disregard regulations governing direction of
movement or turning in specified directions.


(d) The exceptions herein granted to an authorized emergency vehicle, other than a police vehicle, shall apply only when the vehicle is making use of either an audible signal when in motion or visual signals meeting the requirements of Section 12‑215 of this Act.

... and if you look at section (d), a police vehicle is the only emergency vehicle that does not need to have an audible or visual signal on when using the exceptions listed in (c).
 
You did the right thing - you probably saved his life and someone elses. That's something I could put my head on my pillow and have a clean conscience about!
 
muskrat said:
i believe i said in my post that he did the right thing by arresting him... but maybe a break in court, absolutely. i have also told attorneys to go easier on people who were respectful and not LEO's as well, but depends on each case. and i was only asking the other questions as a matter to get a better feel of the entire situation (i'm a stickler for details that way).

as for the speeding without lights/sirens not every call requires a code 2 or 3 response (lights only, sirens and lights) but that doesn't mean that cops need to drive the posted limit on the way to a call that may require a little swifter of a response time. i'm not saying an LEO should go around driving mach 10 all the time either.

whether people like it or not, LEO's are afforded exceptions to following the law in the course of their duties. For example, here is the statute for IL (notice section C #3!):

(625 ILCS 5/11‑205) (from Ch. 95 1/2, par. 11‑205)
Sec. 11‑205. Public officers and employees to obey Act‑Exceptions.
(a) The provisions of this Chapter applicable to the drivers of vehicles upon the highways shall apply to the drivers of all vehicles owned or operated by the United States, this State or any county, city, town, district or any other political subdivision of the State, except as provided in this Section and subject to such specific exceptions as set forth in this Chapter with reference to authorized emergency vehicles.
(b) The driver of an authorized emergency vehicle, when responding to an emergency call or when in the pursuit of an actual or suspected violator of the law or when responding to but not upon returning from a fire alarm, may exercise the privileges set forth in this Section, but subject to the conditions herein stated.
(c) The driver of an authorized emergency vehicle may:
1. Park or stand, irrespective of the provisions of
this Chapter;

2. Proceed past a red or stop signal or stop sign,
but only after slowing down as may be required and necessary for safe operation;

3. Exceed the maximum speed limits so long as he
does not endanger life or property;

4. Disregard regulations governing direction of
movement or turning in specified directions.


(d) The exceptions herein granted to an authorized emergency vehicle, other than a police vehicle, shall apply only when the vehicle is making use of either an audible signal when in motion or visual signals meeting the requirements of Section 12‑215 of this Act.

... and if you look at section (d), a police vehicle is the only emergency vehicle that does not need to have an audible or visual signal on when using the exceptions listed in (c).
Click to expand...

Then in my oppinion everyone should be allowed to drive over the maximum posted limit if not endangering life or property. Why should I be pulled over if I'm not endagering life or property if you can do it with no repercussions. It's a stupid law. And by the way, I've seen plenty of officers speeding for no reason other than just to go that fast. I've seen them speeding and then stop somewhere. . . not for a call. Or pull over on the side of the hwy to wait for and stop someone else for doing something that HE was just doing. I'm just saying I can't stand cops that abuse their power for speeding, and so many other things. Again, thank you to all the good cops out there that do their duty with honor.
 
And no, I don't mean I think everyone should be able to go drivin around at 120+ and all that crap. I'm sure that's probably where someone would take that statement, but if people were doing that then wouldn't that qualify as "endangering life or property"? Thereby allowing a citation or arrest? Of course. But 85 in a 65 or something similar, as long as they're not weaving tightly in and out of traffic narrowly escaping collision. . . I think that should be ok. If they're going to make it ok for you, then why not make it ok for me? I'm just really tired of power abuse.
 
gmmech07 said:
Then in my oppinion everyone should be allowed to drive over the maximum posted limit if not endangering life or property. Why should I be pulled over if I'm not endagering life or property if you can do it with no repercussions. It's a stupid law. And by the way, I've seen plenty of officers speeding for no reason other than just to go that fast. I've seen them speeding and then stop somewhere. . . not for a call. Or pull over on the side of the hwy to wait for and stop someone else for doing something that HE was just doing. I'm just saying I can't stand cops that abuse their power for speeding, and so many other things. Again, thank you to all the good cops out there that do their duty with honor.
Click to expand...

Like I tell my guys at work, "worry about yourself and not what everyone else does". Is it right that some cops break the law and then ticket us for doing the same, no. You could probably be pulled over everytime you go for a drive, but you are not either. It isn't a perfect world and never will be, but karma will catch up to everyone.
 
GMMech very well said +2 .. I watched a Trooper fly by me one day not too long ago, Then he did a turn around and went into a store/ gas station.. 1-2 minutes later I pulled in, He's in there getting a candy bar and soda. he was doing at least 80 -90 mph in a 55... I wish we had an honest list of Leos that admit they speed because they know they can get away with it. Being honest ( Crap I would!) . Also , if speed limits are there just for public safety( I'm sure $$ has nothing to do with it!) then why can a 50,000lb rig drive the same speed as a car ot BUSA , he can stop, turn or anything else as good as a smaller vehicle ..Yet he's allowed to do the same speed limit?! maybe they should allow the Mikes to go faster than the rest of the traffic( since its all about safety) , the bike can sure out handle most of abything on the road, yet it has to do the same speed limit as the RIG? I was begged to become a Leo when I got out the service as a 95B ( military police) I said no! why because most laws are no more than a way for the states to collect funds off the working people. You can look at the system right now hows it fallowing apart ,& whats the GOV doing bailing out the big boyz ( 700 million) bailing out million dollar co.s .. Whos going to pay back the GOV. funds YOU & ME .more taxes and revenue.
 
BrianKesler said:
Tonight i had to make a choice...i stopped a car for 68/45. As im following behind calling in the stop, i notice the guy drifting back and forth in the lane. I pull his d/l and find he has a prior DUI, so im thinkin for sure hes drunk. He stops, gets out and does field sobriety and fails miserably. Before i started field sobriety, he shows me his badge :banghead: He's a retired veteran from Chicago PD, retired as a Sargeant.

I did what i thought was right, and took him in. He blew a .202, the legal limit here in Florida is .08.

The guy was real good about it, said i had a job to do, and he understood. He also said he understood that he screwed up, and for me not to feel bad. I kinda wish he was a jerk about it, would have been a lot easier for me.

So the question for the LEO's, what would u guys have done? I know its easy to say you would make the arrest, but man its hard.
Click to expand...

You made the right decision and my hat is off to you. :bowdown:

To many lives are lost this way each year. I'll buy you a donut and coffee also.

r8
 
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