Question for LEO's

[Southside Playa]

To any board members that are law enforcement, I am trying to weigh my options. I have a buddy that I let "borrow" a firearm (.380 handgun) well over a year ago. At the time he had just moved into a new house and had no protection, and asked to borrow some till he got some extra $$ together. I have asked for him to return my weapon now several times and he has been noncompliant. He no longer lives in the house he where he was at the time and his cell number doesn't work. He does still talk to a mutual friend, though. I asked the mutual friend today to have him to give me a call. He has one opportunity to return my gun, or I am going straight to HPD and reporting it stolen.

My question is, whether not this is something that the police will get involved in, or would they consider it a civil issue?

I used to consider that guy a friend. We used to ride together and everything. It is sad that an issue like this only shows, that he is/was never really a friend, just another roaching MF, trying to take advantage. Besides getting my gun back, I have nothing else to talk to the dude about. He doesn't have a bike right now, even if he did, I wouldn't ride with the guy.

Thanks in advance for any assistance.

 

[PDBusa]

Would be a civil issue with common property. However, being a firearm I'm not sure what local PD would do. Do you need a carry permit in Texas? If one is  required and he does not possess same, it's a different matter all together. Doesn't hurt to stop by a local PD and talk to the OIC about it. The fact that it was loaned verbally would make a tough case for "stolen". You can try that route to get them to hop on it though, and also CYA with any possible wrong doings with the weapon. It's registered with you being owner I'm sure?
Sorry, not much help from NY. If both parties were legal to possess, it'd be a civil matter.
Bastids, can't trust anyone theses days...

 

[CrashBomb]

I'd be careful with getting law enforcement involved. I'm sure you didn't pay a transfer tax or go through a class III dealer. Every time a weapon changes hands the feds want their cut, even if it's just a temporary loan. The police are probably just going to turn it over to BATF and you'll be lucky if the bureau doesn't come after YOU for "dealing without a license."

I'm not sure that "loaning firearms" has ever been tested in court, but ATF regulations do say that the term "dealer;"

"extends to anyone (not a manufacturer) engaged in buying, selling, renting, leasing, or loaning, giving away, or disposing of firearms."

That made you a "firearms dealer" the moment you handed your friend your pistol to borrow. You were operating without a license and without paying the transfer stamp. The BATF loves to hassle individuals for seemingly pointless and meaningless minutia, and the moment you start thinking to yourself "it's only $200, they don't care about small time stuff like that," you'll find yourself on the receiving end of some pretty severe litigation.

Be VERY careful and make sure you have plenty of documentation in case you do wind up in court.

 

[Southside Playa]

Thanks.

I have a CHL, he doesn't. And yes it is registered to me.

I am really trying to be cool-headed about the situation. Part of me wants to beat it out of him, but I know that won't solve anything.

 

[craigntx]

I'd be careful with getting law enforcement involved. I'm sure you didn't pay a transfer tax or go through a class III dealer. Every time a weapon changes hands the feds want their cut, even if it's just a temporary loan. The police are probably just going to turn it over to BATF and you'll be lucky if the bureau doesn't come after YOU for "dealing without a license."

I'm not sure that "loaning firearms" has ever been tested in court, but ATF regulations do say that the term "dealer;"

"extends to anyone (not a manufacturer) engaged in buying, selling, renting, leasing, or loaning, giving away, or disposing of firearms."

That made you a "firearms dealer" the moment you handed your friend your pistol to borrow. You were operating without a license and without paying the transfer stamp. The BATF loves to hassle individuals for seemingly pointless and meaningless minutia, and the moment you start thinking to yourself "it's only $200, they don't care about small time stuff like that," you'll find yourself on the receiving end of some pretty severe litigation.

Be VERY careful and make sure you have plenty of documentation in case you do wind up in court.

"class 3 dealer"--it aint a full auto.
also in tx, as in all free states, guns can be sold or given to another person without a dealer license

 

[CTA_Busa_LE]

I would talk with your local law enforcement agency about the matter. How it is handled will depend upon your states laws and your local law enforcement agency's policy and procedure. I do not see any issue with ATF on this one at all unless they've changed something I didn't hear about and I keep up on firearms related issues pretty closely. As PDBusa stated it is going to be more of a civil matter than anything, but with it being registered to you, you don't want it showing up at a crime scene. Make sure and cover your tail. If I were betting I would say the guy no longer has your gun and that is why he won't give it back.

 

[CrashBomb]

"class 3 dealer"--it aint a full auto.
also in tx, as in all free states, guns can be sold or given to another person without a dealer license

Must be a lot different in Texas than is in PA.

Here you have to go through an FFL dealer (class III) to transfer any kind of firearm, borrow/loan/buy/sell...it doesn't matter, if a gun changes hands you better believe that the man wants his take. Even if it's not actually a class 3 weapon (as in full auto/short barreled shotgun/AOW) you still have to go through a licensed dealer. And buying a gun from an individual in another state? That's an absolute bureaucratic nightmare.

Of course PA has always been a little backwards when it comes to legislation.

 

[craigntx]

"class 3 dealer"--it aint a full auto.
also in tx, as in all free states, guns can be sold or given to another person without a dealer license

Must be a lot different in Texas than is in PA.

Here you have to go through an FFL dealer (class III) to transfer any kind of firearm, borrow/loan/buy/sell...it doesn't matter, if a gun changes hands you better believe that the man wants his take. Even if it's not actually a class 3 weapon (as in full auto/short barreled shotgun/AOW) you still have to go through a licensed dealer. And buying a gun from an individual in another state? That's an absolute bureaucratic nightmare.

Of course PA has always been a little backwards when it comes to legislation.

we can get any hardware, short of c3 goodies, at gun shows from unlicensed individuals, thru newspaper ads, or off the 'net.
i frequent www.glocktalk.com and it's like a small gunshow there, lotsa tx guys sellin their goodies.

like i said, "free state"

 

[Mr Bogus]

dang, I just go to the coliseum here on one of the 3 Gun/knife shows and I can buy/sell/trade without any hassle at all... no paperwork, no nothing... just gotta be 21..

 

[99'busa]

Randy that is the longest sig. I've seen in a long time

 

[craigntx]

View attachment 1592851

 

[Southside Playa]

Nope, but the guy that has it probably has about as much since as the ******** in the picture.


edited language

 

[BusaCruise]

I would still make a record of it with the local PD...that firearm is no longer in your possession or someone's that you can trust.
If that weapon is used in a crime...they are coming to you first.
Even if you aren't taking action against him, at least make it known ahead of time so they aren't ramming your door in, looking for the gun where it's registered.

Or just report it stolen, that way if it gets pawned...you stand a chance of getting it back.

 

[WuzzaCBXRider]

I would still make a record of it with the local PD...that firearm is no longer in your possession or someone's that you can trust.
If that weapon is used in a crime...they are coming to you first.
Even if you aren't taking action against him, at least make it known ahead of time so they aren't ramming your door in, looking for the gun where it's registered.

Or just report it stolen, that way if it gets pawned...you stand a chance of getting it back.

If you're not going to go and get your gun back, I'd agree with Busacruise's first suggestion. As for the suggestion that you lie to the police and report it stolen, don't. If you let him 'borrow' your lawnmower and he didn't return it, you wouldn't report (it) stolen right? You should have civil remedies for non criminal matters but their success rate may not be acceptable to you. Even when you're awarded a judgement, you still have to be able to collect it.

 

[big franks]

have you tried talking to your mutual friend and find out where the guy lives, then just show up at his house and demand the pistol back? do that and tell him you are about to go to the police.... since he is not the registered owner, the police should be able to do a search and confiscate the weapon. kind of like it is an unregistered/illegal gun and he has possesion of it

 

[Aceshigh]

To the originator of the thread, if I were you, I would fill out some
paperwork PRONTO listing the gun as stolen. Because from the date of that
paperwork forward, if anything happens WITH That gun you are no longer liable.

If your friend did something stupid with it, and dumped it, guess what???
You're on the hook for it if you can't remember where you were the night
anything happened....so file a report immediately.

Must be a lot different in Texas than is in PA.

Here you have to go through an FFL dealer (class III) to transfer any kind of firearm, borrow/loan/buy/sell...it doesn't matter, if a gun changes hands you better believe that the man wants his take. Even if it's not actually a class 3 weapon (as in full auto/short barreled shotgun/AOW) you still have to go through a licensed dealer. And buying a gun from an individual in another state? That's an absolute bureaucratic nightmare.

Of course PA has always been a little backwards when it comes to legislation.

\ IL is one of THE strictest gun states and one of only two that
do not even permit ANY kind of CCW. We don't even have to use an
FFL dealer UNLESS it's coming in from out of state.

All we have to do is keep a receipt with a FOID card number showing whom
we sold the gun to, and the FOID card must have been valid or you are in
deep doo doo. No special license is required to sell your property.
Guns are not registered, People are.

 

[UncleSteve]

Laws vary so much from state to state. Contact a lawyer and local LE. Find out if you have any liability if he shoots someone or himself.

I would be more concerned with liability than the cost of the gun.

Not to preach, but loaning a firearm to anyone ....... scares me.

Like the old saying if someone wants to borrow your Busa.

Never loan out your girlfriend or Busa, they may throw a rod in one of them.

 

[SHADiGUY1]

UMM im really hoping it was transfered into his name when he "BORROWED " it if not you could be in some trouble going to the police. At worst case report it stolen.

 

[GPW]

Its a handgun.....someone will atleast take a report (unless they are a lazy azz there are many) indicating the dates and period in which he was in possession of the firearm and that he is failing to return the property. If your lucky he is a convicted felon. Some guys don't like CYA reports but if a felony occurs with that gun in the future they will be knocking at your door.

Retired-

 

[jefferycarman]

As many have said CYA. Personally I will never loan one of my hand guns to anyone. Just not willing to take that chance. Something like what happened to you happens, and I would probably be going to jail for a crime he commited, or the beating he recieved.