Since 1999 A Busa codes to c31 6Fixed

[2busa]

If you want to quantify what happens to the GPS, OR ANY SENSOR WIRE, you can pull a single (any sensor) wire out of the weather connector's rubber boot and watch the effect. For example, 3 signals run off a different wire from the GPS. I cannot tell you the WHY the ECU incorporates using the 186plus/(6) Maps/10.6K/(Subs WOT on the 14). If I use my theory to explain the, "Race Set" in the abstract, I Can say... "Holy (chocolate) Pancake Batter" (the day u ate off the Roach Coach), would you look at that! Those sweet engineering teams coming up with a simple disconnect, way back in 1999. I don't know how you (Suz) figured out how to combine the 6fixed/400rpm/186 sets together, (13.5= being basically the same GPS signals) but looks like the 'physics' says; every computer bike might be using a generic GPS 3 wire signal... This is how the computer ties it all in the, ABSOLUTE.

If I continue in the abstract, I can throw my own spin and say...

The engineering says to me, "Would you like to go, RACING'? The theory continues working the book(s), by saying, "Lets ride the Busa to the track in (analog) street trim'. 'When I prep the bike for race trim, I disconnect the GPS for the race set.' The engineering continues to tell me, 'Close the (analog) water temp file and bring up the, Tw 80c (digital) file, then continue the, "Deep Set" (opening and closing the ECU's Backup Files'). 'When the racing day is over, I reconnect whatever set I used; working the atmosphere (for that day), making sure all sensor connections are plugged in and ride the bike home."

If you begin to understand the theory, the race set is a rideable set home as well.

The theory keeps rolling, because no matter what, the analog maps and digital F/Safe maps are calculating the same basic mathematical atmospheric calculations. If the bike is triggered in any coded backup map, the failed sensor codes do not all of a sudden run rich, (for safety reasons). They would fail emissions, load the plug, carbon the piston,etc. Theory says the backup fuel plot is within emissions, because the bike simply can do (the calculation) it in analog as well as in the digital a/N method. Read the way the 02 functions for the automotive A/N method and how it is used, (for more practical theory).

The practical theory keeps exposing the 2-Click System in the shop manual(s) = 1. Sensor is running fine until failure is caused by a: Signal bloc/wire out/connector loss/Volt value out of spec at the end of the sensor, (diode in the bake). The voltage resistance defaults to the built-in design.. the 2nd Click to trigger the Backup mode. The ECU backup system takes over the failed/blocked signal. I can see both bikes (Busa/13.5) use the generic standard; 3 wires from the GPS. Once I understood what the 3 wires do (unplugging the GPS connector, or the 270 ohm tied in, or the aftermarket/Busa websites perpetuating a fallacy about a 5th gear map), I thought I'd challenge the,1999 5th gear map scenario and keep the 14 focused on how the abstract works.

Ask the theory if you can hold any map in place on the 14, let alone finding a 5th gear map. Ask the theory in the abstract if a Busa can reprogram an ECM to hold an altered GPS unit in 5th map.

Am I to believe the 5th gears abstract...
"I changed the way c31 reads my 5th gear map mod...I don't give a **** what the shop manuals describe in the abstract or what the code reads.... I don't understand the ******* book anyway, so I changed the way the computer defaults to 6fixed by tearing out the whole clutch basket, pulled the GPS out by the short hairs... then welded a different diode in the unit. ****... the computer is too stoopid anyway, so I (literally) "shorted" the Busa's GPS assembly to read 5th when it's in 6th or any other gear... See, the Busa's been reading the 5th map mod since 1999... ******* manual was never updated. That 6fixed reading in your ZX-14 shop manual too? It's a LIE!"

The correlation between the Busa's 1st wire granting 400 more RPM from the ECM; is equivalent to the 14 granting the same single wire to lock the subs.
The 2nd GPS signal wire the Busa uses is the universal standard 6fixed triggering their ECM; is equivalent to the 14's ECU triggering the (6) Locked in the shop manual.
The 3rd wire is used to disconnect the 186 lockdown for both bikes.

Ping: is a computer term used to reference a specific signal from point A (ECU) to point B (sensor). The 3 wire ping would look like this:

E ------------[ main harness connector to ]------------GPS Sensor = 186
C ------------[ main harness connector to ]------------GPS Sensor = (6) Lock
U ------------[ main harness connector to ]------------GPS Sensor = 400 Plus RPM.
This is the stock GPS wire harness connection with zero (no digital) codes, zero mods, (analog is OK). To watch the ECM work in full "hard code FI flashing mode" you would have to disconnect the Sensor at the, [ ] connector to capture all 3 signals. If you want to see a hard code, install the 270/tre/wire-out; to the (6fixed) wire...

ECU------------[ 270 ohm/06tre/wire pulled ] ---------------GPS sensor (itself) is now being blocked by the ping. The ping instead; signals into a resistor, or a tre, or a wire not fully connected in it's connector housing = will throw the (6) F/safe.

Say you want to remove the wire that moves the 400 plus RPM? The wire being used looks like this:
ECU-----------[ 270/tre/wire pulled ]-------------No Sensor ping to the GPS (unit's wire at the end).
E ------------[ main harness connector to ]------------GPS Sensor = 186
E ------------[ main harness connector to ]------------GPS Sensor = 6fixed
So now, the 10.6K is locked in a hard code (showing 6fixed) because I can follow the abstract and point to a code that replicates the effect of the abstract in the shop manual. I can say in the abstract, "Beats me why no hard codes show. I'll deduce the wires are still connected, but the, 'single wire disrupt" not only duplicates the exact code, it tells me enough info in the book to look at the practical happen just like the book says. I can say there is no hard code present on dash, but, THE PRACTICAL CODE is in play none the less".

 

[05BusaLe]

So what are you trying to say you broke your bike? JK
You must be a rocket surgeon. Didnt understand any of that!

 

[pward76]

Too abstract for me - can ya dumb that down a little for me?

 

[MN72Busa]

Can someone Ping Johnny Cheese on this...lol. Way above my head, but sorta sounds like the making of a home made TRE in the works

 

[dadofthree]

 

[cougar694u]

He's basically saying if you tamper with the GPS circuit in any way it will trigger failsafe, and is saying a TRE doesn't do what it claims it does.

What I don't understand is why you had to explain it the way that you did. It's so much easier to say, "The ECU is programmed to look at the GPS circuitry to see if it's been tampered with in any way. If it has been tampered with, it automatically puts you in failsafe, even though it may not throw a code. No matter what you do, it won't work."

Just remember, the earth was once flat AND the center of the solar system.

 

[BA BUSA]

 

[05BusaLe]

(cougar694u @ Jan. 19 2007,17:15) He's basically saying if you tamper with the GPS circuit in any way it will trigger failsafe, and is saying a TRE doesn't do what it claims it does.

What I don't understand is why you had to explain it the way that you did.  It's so much easier to say, "The ECU is programmed to look at the GPS circuitry to see if it's been tampered with in any way.  If it has been tampered with, it automatically puts you in failsafe, even though it may not throw a code.  No matter what you do, it won't work."

Just remember, the earth was once flat AND the center of the solar system.

Wow another rocket surgeon, Thanks for explaining that to me. BTW from everything I have read the TRE does do something, smooths out lower RPM's I dont know about no top speed limiter cause who in their right minds would go that fast (me me me me me)

 

[Don Hardcastle]

Having said all that, my bike registered 190mph on the dyno top speed run with a smart TRE installed.

Don

 

[05BusaLe]

(USN05LE @ Jan. 19 2007,21:43) Having said all that, my bike registered 190mph on the dyno top speed run with a smart TRE installed.

Don

Yes it works it really really does work!

 

[2busa]

Cougar, How is it, no one read the same manual I read. I read the factory shop manual. It dumbs you down so bad, the abstract in the book couldn't explain it better. How come no one understands every boost (400rpm/6map/186+) from the GPS signal takes a simple disconnect at the GPS harness? Where was the correlation between an open connector exposing the 3 f/safe maps and that is all she wrote. No 5th to be had.

There was never any map but the 6fixed you felt, or the 400rev clutch needing one wire removed from the GPS connector. Who knows how many GPS clutch jobs that were a waste of time to do. Don proves the f/safe 186+ is triggered; having blocked the needed signal down at the GPS diode, not what is now blocking the signal.

Coug, I walked the theory you can see in the practical. No answer is vague. The controversy explains in the absolute, the absolute explains the controversy. I bought a computer bike in April'06. I never heard of this tre unit. Guys were making a resistor to ground for the 6fixed. I made one, studied the findings. Looked in the shop manual showing a code set on the dash and lost the shift display to a 6. I then started pulling up the f/safe files (sensor codes) by disconnecting the sensor wires, feeling the crisper digital maps.
I concluded the computer will accept no other signal than designed. I can show the book example throwing the f/safe code... Take an ohm meter, set it to Ohms, cross the black and red leads to set infinity. You have now set the computer (meter) to read the only signal (touch leads) the bike will use or it it will signal the backup...

Place a dime resistor (from Radio Shack) in between the meter leads. Did the ohm needle swing to infinity, or does the resistor move the needle. Guess who defaulted to f/safe, (every time).

Any advance/fuel improvement came from your computer's secondary (a-N/D-J) maps, not from a short placed in between the connections. You might as well shove a screwdriver in between the connectors, (if you keep missing the concept).

Have you read enough to understand the book has been misinterpreted as to how the computer functions. That's why the TRE controversy. To many theories but the books interpretation

 

[dadofthree]

(USN05LE @ Jan. 19 2007,18:43) Having said all that, my bike registered 190mph on the dyno top speed run with a smart TRE installed.

Don

Would your bike have ran 190 without the TRE ?

I've heard about half and half about the performance improvements of a TRE installation. Half good and Half bad.

I've also heard that it messes up fuel mileage. I kinda like the rough idle and running at low RPMs.

 

[heavybusa]

whats a TRE

 

[heavybusa]

this post would make good sense after 3 crown on the rocks

 

[2busa]

You need a basic handle on the computer system and what it took away from your tuning ability. The computer is telling you, "If you want this bike to run forever, maintain the compression, we will take care of the other 2 (of the 3) variables that make an engine run, (comp/spark/fuel)".
If you look at the 3 variables (to make the inturn-combust-eng run), they ring true in the most, ABSOLUTE way possible. As true as if you removed one of the 3 variables, the manual says, 'If you disrupt my electronic, my digital signal, my one and only signal, I will default (THAT SENSOR) to the (EFI/DUI industry standard) backup system.

I now have a 4th variable to deal with... The Computer System. The bike becomes easier to diagnose, because your only concern is compression. The computer on the other hand, lets you know if fuel or spark is down; by throwing a code to the dash.

If you compare the, 'steps to failure' ... it takes one step to disable compression, (bent valve/head gasket). It takes the computer, 2 steps (basically) before the ECM fails. The sensor fails first. If the backup system cannot be thrown, then the computer is faulty.
Here is a typical compression/ECM troubleshoot diagnostic tree :

COMPRESSION: Bent valve/head gasket/tight valve/hole in piston dome/rings/bore taper/ring stuck in piston groove/flat cam lobe/more variables = No Start.
ELM: Sensor signal drops out(*)/fail-safe takes over until../ELM burns out = No Start.
ELM: *Crank Sensor drops out/ELM is good = No Start.

Once you understand the basics, the computer bike is a breeze to troubleshoot.

It's that easy to diagnose the computer. The manual expects you to understand the concept to diagnose the bike, or you'll never understand that... "Every step follows the practical theory in the absolute".

Quote: cougar694u "...and is saying a TRE doesn't do what it claims it does."....
Please, do not put words in my mouth. I am describing how to diagnose a computer bike with a trouble code. I am also following a phantom code triggered, without the hard code flashing. I use the manual to follow the abstract in the book.
It is up to you to decide if the aftermarket represents it's product correctly. It is up to you if I'm making correct sense out of the book, or if you want to believe any, 'Jonny Cheeze Scenario' that comes along. Your Choice.

Dadof3, ask yourself the question, "Do I see Don exceed the 186 restriction by using a device that blocks the signal, that reverts to a default system, that exceeds 190, or will an untouched GPS reach 186 and stop? Ask yourself if a tampered signal sent the computer into a slightly richer fuel map. If the computer signals the 6fix to pop a fuel file, do you not see the computer plan in the absolute, "Looks like we are going 186 plus. I'm going to compensate by adding a touch more fuel for the extra 400rpm, to exceed the 186 Plus ride, and let's make sure we plot in the digital. (since you fudged with the sensor somehow?).


You have the ability to tune the bike using the f/safe maps, but until you understand the basics, you'll be tuning in the world where they say it's flat.

Does the aftermarket sell an advancer tone ring for the crank end? Is that on your street bike? Do you know what happens when the ECM backs the timing off at idle and your tone ring is still advanced?

 

[cougar694u]

What I'm trying to do is build a controller that monitors everything and only changes 1 signal, nothing else. The ECU wouldn't know the difference. I guess it's similar to a 'smart tre'. I never read the manual, I'm going by what you're saying. If the ECU pings the GPS, I can use the controller to pick up the ping and respond accordingly, or simply pass the signal to the GPS. I need to hook a scope in-line and see what's actually going on, I just have more important things to do.

What I want to know is this, Is it actually effective?

USN05LE stated he hit 190 on the dyno, but we don't know what factors were in play here. I want to put one on the dyno, do a 4th, 5th, and 6th gear run to limiter in stock trim. Then, install the TRE and do all three again and see if the limiter was extended in 6th gear. Ideally, that's what everyone's after. Then, install the controller I'm building and try it again.

I think we're discussing two different points, apples and oranges, if you will. I want to put together a controller to handle the signals, similar to general functionality of a power commander. The only way to get it done is trial and error, unless we know EXACTLY how it works.

 

[2busa]

I'm trying to download a video to explain the abstract. Hold off on the controller, unless you want to deliberately pull the maps up. Man, I hope you guys understand how simple this. You'll kick you own ass for missing the basics. I was tapping you on the shoulder to put a halt to the clutch sensor mod. It's not the sensor you mod. You disable the sensor completely.

If you run 186 plus, you need the rest. You need the rpm, plus the fatter map to run the higher mph. Yank the plug is the tune. You might understand to chase the water temp map. The bike doesn't overheat, so why not pull the Ta map and try the lower temp map.

 

[300Busa]

 

[CAT3]

Personally I think you need to try and figure out a way to type what it is your saying. You constantly refer to: abstract (sometimes meaning manual, other times meaning nothing); you talk all about this _ will cause/create or do this __ but you've never done it on a Busa, only a 13.5 and I wonder if you've even done on it on that bike. For someone claiming to be a dealer mechanic for so long, and a race pit mechanic etc. how could you have never heard of the TRE, modified GPS', or even not messed with a "computer bike" until 06' when Bikes with computers have been running around for over 2 decades? Reading b/w your lines, since your not the technical type of talker (hence you like using abstract etc..) your saying if someone wants the same "performance" (or claimed performance they think they are getting) with the TRE they simply need to unplug their GPS Sensor under the seat and viola save some money, still have 6th gear fixed (failsafe) etc..

2Busa, the ECM cannot differentiate the difference of input b/w 5th gear sending 100ohms when in 5th and 100ohms when in 6th. The ECM will not say in the abstract/abosolute or WTFE hey, I'm now in 6th gear but still seeing 5th...WTF? Something is wrong, I need to go to failsafe now! Why wont it? Cuz as long as the signal is a vaild signal, one w/i range of acceptable parameters, then it will think the clutch was pulled, and released with no gear change.

But let me step out of your fantasy thread about knowing how to tune a Busa by disconnecting the right sensors and stuff and get back to work.

 

[cougar694u]

Black wire's grounded 100% of the time. Blue wire's grounded in Neutral, open when not in Neutral. Red wire's ground with different resistances in 1-6th and open in Neutral.

The only wire we need to be concerned with is the Red wire, not sure why you have the three different wires showing three different functions.

A 10K Ohm resister on the Red wire to ground would probably cause the ECU to pick up 6th as 5th gear, maybe 5th as 4th, but it's such a small difference on the others that they'll probably pick up the rest as they are. I don't have one to test with, but here are the resistances for each gear:

1st = 560 Ohms
2nd = 820 Ohms
3rd = 1.5K Ohms
4th = 2.73K Ohms
5th = 6.79K Ohms
6th = 14.97K Ohms

1st & 2nd have such low resistance that 10K Ohms wouldn't make much difference (I don't have the formula handy to figure what the ECU would see), and would probably only make a difference in 5th & 6th.

**EDIT**
And I agree with Cat3, you need to be a little more articulate in your writings and try to explain things more clearly.

**EDIT2**
A 10k resistor in parallel would make each gear look like this:

1st = 529 Ohms
2nd = 758 Ohms
3rd = 1.30K Ohms
4th = 2.14K Ohms
5th = 4.04K Ohms
6th = 6.00K Ohms

However, in Neutral, the Red wire will have 10K Ohms resistance, where the ECU expects ∞ resistance.

And a 15K Ohm resistor will read this:

1st = 540 Ohms
2nd = 777 Ohms
3rd = 1.36K Ohms
4th = 2.31K Ohms
5th = 4.67K Ohms
6th = 7.49K Ohms

I think the 15k will be too much, so I tried 12k:

1st = 535 Ohms
2nd = 768 Ohms
3rd = 1.33K Ohms
4th = 2.22K Ohms
5th = 4.34K Ohms
6th = 6.66K Ohms

I think that's much more suited to what we're after, except there will still be 12K Ohms resistance in Neutral.

**EDIT 3**
Now, you can use a relay to open the red wire whenever the blue wire is grounded. This would open the circuit, thus showing the ECU ∞ resistance.