I caught my dealer service in FRAUD!!

[eynlai]

Some of us may have wondered if we are getting ripped off when we bring out bikes into the dealer for service. Thanks to this board I caught my dealer, with video evidence.

When I first got my busa in March, I was reading this board and I'm glad I did! Following the general advice that 600 mile was kind of late for a first oil change, I did it myself and put on a Fram filter at 400 miles. I bought it in my dealer for the 600 mile "service" anyways, and at 2200 miles I decided to do another oil change myself before the scheduled visit to the dealer at 4000 miles for the next service.

Strangest thing is when I took off the fairing I noticed that the oil filter on there was still a Fram! I thought the dealers used not thing but OEM, then thought they might just have been cheap about it and used a Fram like I did. The more I thought about it the more it seem odd. So before I put on the next oil filter for this change at 2200 miles, I had my friend video tape me performing the oil and filter change. What he video taped was the odo miles, the time and date stamp on our Sprint phones (sprint phones automatically pulls the time and date from the towers and the handsets can't be adjusted), the VIN # (since I've not received my lic plate from the DMV yet), and me etching my initials, the current date on the top side of this Purolator oil filter before I put it on my busa. This was segment 1.

Now it's a month later, yesterday I video taped my busa with it's miles on the odo, the time and date again on the Sprint handset before bringing it in to my dealer for 4000 mile service. This was segment #2.

Just like the 600 mile work order, they wrote up 4 qt of Moto drum 10-40 w oil, and OEM oil filter totaling $25 + $148 for labor. When I got my bike back, we had lunch first, then got the camera and proceded to see if they changed the oil filter. We filmed the odo miles on the bike, which is just a few miles since I filmed it that morning before bringing it in, the time and date on the Sprint handset. Even before I got the filter off I knew they didn't change it. Purolator stared at me in mid-screw off, and when I got it off, it was the same filter that I put on myself about 1 month ago, with my initials and the date etched on it. All caught on tape. This was segment #3.

We went back to the dealer an hour later and explained what we found. We even offered the service manager to show him the video segements on the camera that we bought with us, he refused to see it. He went and just put a flashlight to the fairing opening to see the filter, came back up and asked if I wanted them to do it over again. AGAIN?? Then never did it the first time!!! I asked to talk to the owner of the dealership, he went and pretended like he went to call him. He only came back to say he can't get in touch with him.

I like to have opinion from you all on: What's next? I prepaid by service and repair with them under their program when I bought the bike from them. How much trouble are they in at this point? They are a authorized Suzuki dealer and service, as well as Honda, Yamaha, Kawi. It's the largest bike dealer in the county.

Your thoughts? Thanks

 

[phatjoe]

DUDE THAT IS SOME FUNKED UP SHEOT!!!!! get a lawer and see if you got a case you never know. i only got 300 miles on my bike now im gonna pull the right fairing off and stamp my initials on the oil filter if the same crap happens to me ima blow that mofo up

 

[BigBSBusa]

Couldn't tell you for sure, but it sounds like he's got some xplainin' to do! I prefer to start at the bottom and talk to the store owner and see what you can get. And I don't mean that like you should go around and see who offers you the best deal, but that's just flat wrong of them to do! If he doesn't offer you something you feel is appropriate, you don't feel like he will hold up his end or you just don't think the work will be done properly I would call Suzuki and start talking to folks up there about that dealership. I wonder how many other folks he has done that to? Obviously it's a great way to have a profitable dealership, but come on!

 

[jfksmith]

Lucccccccccccy, YOU GOT SOME SPLAINEN TO DO. Unfortunately you really have to catch the dealers putting the screws to you. Everyone should know basic maintenance of their bike so you can double check this kind of thing. Call the better business bureau and file a complaint and demand to see the owner of the dealership. And there is a little thing called TV. Call you local tv station and ask to talk to the consumer fraud reporter and show them what you have and ask for some televised help.. good luck

 

[badassbusa]

get a lawer, that is messed up, do you know on how many people they lied & scammed? you work hard for your money & no body should still. if the mangere cared about what happen, he would talk to you & try to make it clear that it was not his fault, he would blamed it on the tech that worked on it. i bet you he is putting all the money in his pocket. i work at a car dealer ship & stuff like that should never happen, call a lawer & call you local TV, make a big deal out of it cause it is.

 

[eynlai]

Lawyer is my first thought. These people at the dealership didn't even take me seriously when I went back there with tape in hand, and telltale oil filter on bike! Tell have a reputation for being snotty. By the way, my buddy just finished digitizing the tape and is on his computer now. I'll see the lawyer first and if he/she okays it I'll post it somewhere so you guys can see it for yourself, if you're interested. Of coarse, there will be more to follow up, because they are a very large dealer (considering it's bikes) and the showroom is the size of a Target store and the high volume of business (since this is a very heavily populated biker community), this one Purlator filter may very well be Pandora's box for them. I'll keep you all posted. But keep the opinions and replies coming in. I'd appreciate it.

 

[STUNNAH]

If you paid for some sort of service program up front I would be looking for reimbursement of that money...Doesn't sound like much else to do...Yeah you could sue them in civil court but the result would be the same as if they just gave you your service money back...Plus it would cost you time to do that...Report them to the BBB and to Suzuki...Although Suzuki probably will tell you that it is an issue between you and the dealer...Even though these dealers are authorized by Suzuki to sell their bikes, do warranty work and maintenance Suzuki has no control of their day to day operations...I would strongly suggest a meeting with the owner to recoup your money and then expose them for what they are and have done...You might make 60 Mins...Sounds like you can do the basic maintenance yourself and you really don't need them...

 

[BulletTrain]

Everyone is quick to scream "Get a lawyer" but what the fug do you stand to gain? You could get your $173 back, but unless you can show a judge some sort of other monetary or physical loss you prolly ain't gonna get shid more than that. What is a lawyer gonna charge you to get yer $173 back?

Yeah, there is the issue of Suzuki possibly voiding the warranty if the oil wasn't changed as recommended, but at this point you can't show a monetary loss on that. All you have claim to is what you paid for the oil change you didn't get. Go to the dealership owner and demand your money back. If he balks on that tell him that you are going to the local news stations with the video. The news folks usually eat that shid up if your "evidence" is strong. Most dealers don't want to get free television advertising by that means.

Also, contact the better business bureau.

It never ceases to amaze me how quick some folks are to snag an attorney in shid like this.

 

[BulletTrain]

If you paid for some sort of service program up front I would be looking for reimbursement of that money...Doesn't sound like much else to do...Yeah you could sue them in civil court but the result would be the same as if they just gave you your service money back...Plus it would cost you time to do that...Report them to the BBB and to Suzuki...Although Suzuki probably will tell you that it is an issue between you and the dealer...Even though these dealers are authorized by Suzuki to sell their bikes, do warranty work and maintenance Suzuki has no control of their day to day operations...I would strongly suggest a meeting with the owner to recoup your money and then expose them for what they are and have done...You might make 60 Mins...Sounds like you can do the basic maintenance yourself and you really don't need them...  

Hehehehehe... I was typin' while you were. Sounds like we're on the same page, bro.

 

[STUNNAH]

If you paid for some sort of service program up front I would be looking for reimbursement of that money...Doesn't sound like much else to do...Yeah you could sue them in civil court but the result would be the same as if they just gave you your service money back...Plus it would cost you time to do that...Report them to the BBB and to Suzuki...Although Suzuki probably will tell you that it is an issue between you and the dealer...Even though these dealers are authorized by Suzuki to sell their bikes, do warranty work and maintenance Suzuki has no control of their day to day operations...I would strongly suggest a meeting with the owner to recoup your money and then expose them for what they are and have done...You might make 60 Mins...Sounds like you can do the basic maintenance yourself and you really don't need them...  

Hehehehehe... I was typin' while you were. Sounds like we're on the same page, bro.

Great minds think alike!!!

 

[eynlai]

Actually, I believe it goes beyond that. I know for a fact that the BAR (bearau of automotive repairs, covers bikes in CA) can fine them and force them to close down for at least 1 month. It happened to my landlord's auto repair shop, and the evidence isn't even as strong against him.

Yes, monatery loss here is small in comparision. But in cases where there is demonstrated willfull and intent to commit fraud by a business, there is something called punative damages. And past cases shown that to be a lot more significant than the actual damage.

Refund my prepaid?? That's like a thief that got caught stealing and he offers to pay for the merchandise AFTER he/she got caught! I had friends that work LP in dept stores, and they aren't that kind.

Yeah, I think the people at the dealership is thinking along that same line that you two mentioned above. In due respect, I don't think it's as simple as that. We've all seen or been unknowing participants in class actions where we got like $2 as a settlement, but for that company involved, you can imagine what the total cost is. We're not taking about that many customers for this dealership, dispite them being the largest in the county, but multiple $180 / oil change by however many people over a coarse of a year? 2 years? 3 years? hmmm adds up, doesn't it. It's not so much as what I can get out this, but what will hurt them for hurting us as bike customers.

Incompetency is bad enough, but nowhere as bad as fraud. Basically, they stole from me. Incompetency will definitely warrant no more than a refund and maybe a couple of free services (provided nothing big happened because of it), but Fraud is intentional will to steal. If they stole from me twice, imagine how many people they've done this too. And if a Suzuki went in (or a Honda, or a Yammy) for warranty service and Suzuki paid out to them for performing it because they said they did the recommended maintanence service on it but the bike still failed... They are also stealing from Suzuki.

I hate to sound like I'm blowing this out of proportion, but think about it. Does it sound like the only lost they will incur is just a refund of my prepaid service fee?

 

[busabrother]

Call your local tv station and tell them about it. Bad press = dealer getting your poop straight with some perks.

 

[captain]

I would first let everyone on this board know who it was so that you can potentially save another member the same experience, stop the bleeding your might say. Then I would send a certified letter to the dealership owner and manager re capping the situation, requesta meeting with them and see if they accept. Creating a paper trail is good for you no matter what direction you go. When they get them mail they will know that you are serious! If they decline then you have a document trail for an attorney to use in court that you were not sue happy that you were attempting to resolve the situation in a professional manner and that you were giving them the benefit of explaining to you the CUSTOMER what had happenned. I agree with you in the fact that they could be held negligent in the fact that they did not fix the problem once it was identified. There may not be any actual damages but there are absolutely potential damages, can you see a Suzuki certified mechanic on the stand explaining the damages that could occur if your oil wasnt changed as per the Suzuki Manual. This is the fastest most engineered sportbike in the world, and the dealership couldnt even change the oil filter? Take the high road first and see where that gets ya,

CAp

 

[BulletTrain]

Actually, I believe it goes beyond that.  I know for a fact that the BAR (bearau of automotive repairs, covers bikes in CA) can fine them and force them to close down for at least 1 month.  It happened to my landlord's auto repair shop, and the evidence isn't even as strong against him.

Yes, monatery loss here is small in comparision.  But in cases where there is demonstrated willfull and intent to commit fraud by a business, there is something called punative damages. And past cases shown that to be a lot more significant than the actual damage.  

Refund my prepaid??  That's like a thief that got caught stealing and he offers to pay for the merchandise AFTER he/she got caught!  I had friends that work LP in dept stores, and they aren't that kind.

Yeah, I think the people at the dealership is thinking along that same line that you two mentioned above.  In due respect, I don't think it's as simple as that.  We've all seen or been unknowing participants in class actions where we got like $2 as a settlement, but for that company involved, you can imagine what the total cost is.  We're not taking about that many customers for this dealership, dispite them being the largest in the county, but multiple $180 / oil change by however many people over a coarse of a year? 2 years? 3 years?  hmmm adds up, doesn't it.  It's not so much as what I can get out this, but what will hurt them for hurting us as bike customers.

Incompetency is bad enough, but nowhere as bad as fraud.  Basically, they stole from me.  Incompetency will definitely warrant no more than a refund and maybe a couple of free services (provided nothing big happened because of it), but Fraud is intentional will to steal.  If they stole from me twice, imagine how many people they've done this too.  And if a Suzuki went in (or a Honda, or a Yammy) for warranty service and Suzuki paid out to them for performing it because they said they did the recommended maintanence service on it but the bike still failed... They are also stealing from Suzuki.

I hate to sound like I'm blowing this out of proportion, but think about it.  Does it sound like the only lost they will incur is just a refund of my prepaid service fee?

Sure it goes beyond that. You could cost them more, as in fines, lost bidness, etc... It's just that you prolly aren't gonna get anything more than you have a receipt for. I'm not sayin' they don't deserve to be slammed for what they done. I'd be pissed and want blood, too. My point was that it's silly to scream lawyer like so many people do these days.

Give 'em hell if it's worth it to you. I prolly would if I were in your shoes. However, I would NOT hire and pay a lawyer to handle it for me. You just don't stand to gain enough to make payin' an attorney a prudent thing to do. Just my $.02, though. If you want to spend a thousand or more to only get $178 back, have at it.

 

[BulletTrain]

There may not be any actual damages but there are absolutely potential damages, can you see a Suzuki certified mechanic on the stand explaining the damages that could occur if your oil wasnt changed as per the Suzuki Manual.

CAp

Yeah, I can see that. I can also see the defendant's attorney rippin' 'em a new one on it. How many times have you seen courts reward anything for potential damages?

Never seen or heard of it. You still have to prove a loss to get compensated for it in a civil tort, no?

Yeah, there are a few cases where people are compensated for mental anguish and shid like that, but I don't think it was over a friggin' oil filter not bein' changed on a bike. Maybe if it blew an engine and caused a crash, but that's not the case here.

If we could sue others for something they *could have* done to us, the world of civil suits would be even more outta hand than it is now! Everyone you cut off in traffic could sue you because your actions created a potential for them to suffer some sort of financial loss, even though it *DIDN'T*! Let's hope that the civil courts maintain at least enough common sense to require proof of a loss to award compensation. If they start awarding those who are subjected to potential damages but didn't incur any then we're all phuq'd.

What'd be next? Jailin' people because they have the potential to commit a crime against another?

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[Johnnycheese]

Okay I didn't read every word. but to clue you in some dealers do not use OEM. They can make more $$ off an aftermarket (althought they usually use the black one so you don't know) .

Second being I work in So. Cal foer many years The BBB or the BAR is a waste of time. sure they will file a report but don't think they shop will be closed for doing work. The state nor you have that much money.
Just get your money back and write a letter to the owner (if they even have one, most likely some corp owns it) and the GM and the Service manager. stating that you will not come to the dealership ever again.AND MAKE SURE YOU DON"T. even if they have gas for 25 cents a Gal.
also put in the letter that every person you meet on a bike you will make sure they hear your story.
That is all you have to do.

 

[manatrader]

Contact the Better Business Bureau and the local TV network. Bad press does wonders and a bad record with the Better Business Bureau hurts the dealer too.  If they get to many complaints they can shut them down and it hurts the business when they want to get loans and stuff like that.  For sure you should get your money back, anything beyond that would cost you more than your busa did in lawyer fee's.

 

[ks-waterbug]

I'm with Johnny on this one.. Send them a certified letter stating just what you've told us here and ask for compensation! I would request 100% refund for parts/labor and to be compensated for time lost? If they baulk at this forgo the attorney and take em to small claims. By representing yourself you save a ton of cash and will more than likely get the same results..... Plus I'd tack on an additional 25-30% over and above your total for neglect of the maintenance of your bike... In Ks small claims is good for up to roughly $2500.

 

[groundzero]

i,d just like to throw a little thought into the disscussion..you dont need a layer..and hold off with the tv,tabloids etc (for now)..you need to speak to suzuki customer services ..let them know what one of thier franchised dealers has been caught doing..let them have a copy of your evidence..they may seem a little indifferent at first but you can believe the dealer will get full force scrutiny from the manufacturers...i.e service shedule returns, warranty claims etc to the point where i feel the dealer will be in touch with you to sort out the "missunderstanding"

 

[MET]

I would first let everyone on this board know who it was so that you can potentially save another member the same experience, stop the bleeding your might say. Then I would send a certified letter to the dealership owner and manager re capping the situation, requesta meeting with them and see if they accept. Creating a paper trail is good for you no matter what direction you go. When they get them mail they will know that you are serious! If they decline then you have a document trail for an attorney to use in court that you were not sue happy that you were attempting to resolve the situation in a professional manner and that you were giving them the benefit of explaining to you the CUSTOMER what had happenned. I agree with you in the fact that they could be held negligent in the fact that they did not fix the problem once it was identified. There may not be any actual damages but there are absolutely potential damages, can you see a Suzuki certified mechanic on the stand explaining the damages that could occur if your oil wasnt changed as per the Suzuki Manual. This is the fastest most engineered sportbike in the world, and the dealership couldnt even change the oil filter? Take the high road first and see where that gets ya,

CAp

Yes, and don't ask to talk to the owner find out the owners name and call and talk to him and send him a cerified letter.  Tell him what you found and then tell him you would like some satisfaction that this is not the norm.  Tell him you would at the very leaset want to be compendated for what was not done, both service and parts. Don't threaten to make this public, but in part of the conversation, let it be know that 1,000,s of members are waiting to hear the out come to figure out what the next steps will be.



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