EV vehicles

[Bumblebee]

The insurance industry has not been friendly to insuring EVs. Musk has Tesla backed casualty coverage for his cars.

Tesla Insurance | Tesla Support

With Teslas on auto-drive going off the road, getting into accidents and running over pedestrians and bicycles and spontaneously catching fire it's little wonder insurance companies have been unfriendly to them....

Of course insurance companies aren't friendly to almost anyone...

If Musk keeps going, maybe he'll run for president......be good except he's South African...

 

[TallTom]

With Teslas on auto-drive going off the road, getting into accidents and running over pedestrians and bicycles and spontaneously catching fire it's little wonder insurance companies have been unfriendly to them....

Of course insurance companies aren't friendly to almost anyone...

If Musk keeps going, maybe he'll run for president......be good except he's South African...

Just because he's offering insurance, doesn't mean he intends on paying out any damages. He's just trying to bring the cost of TESLA ownership down.

 

[Red05]

Exactly what problem do they solve?
Is there a shortage of oil we don’t know about?
Is there a shortage of ICE vehicles?
Is the air anywhere in the USA still not light years cleaner than any over China, India or Pakistan?
Are Teslas affordable to the masses?

No
No
Ye
Annnnd No

The exhaust gases pushing out of the millions of cars on the road don't just disappear. Yes the air is cleaner here but not as clean as it could be, especially in more populated areas. I believe it's up to our generation to start this change. I get that you don't agree but don't think for a moment either one of us is way more correct than the other. What will your grandkids and great grandkids know about the availability of oil? As far as affordability, do you remember the first bag phones? Who had them? The better off. Things change and evolve. I've said several times, internal conbustion engines gave me a good career and I absolutely love the science behind it. I'm not anti ICE in ANY way.

 

[Tb3]

 

[Bumblebee]

I personally think there are better uses for governmental and private citizen's time and money than the huge drive towards EV....

We look around the globe and the only initiative toward EV tech is the west (and China I suppose only to sell to the west)....all the other global countries have made no progress towards any sort of climate change activity...

The entire global populace has to get on board with fighting pollution both airborne, ground and water...many waters of the world are toxic with huge amounts of toxins and pollutants going into them each and every day yet where is the outrage? Billions of gallons of sewage and industrial waste is going into the very life-blood of the earth but there is nary a peep....

Mining operations (many to gather materials for EV tech) are destroying virgin rain forests and waterways but the drive towards this tech has blinded people to this fact....it is no better for petroleum but we all know about that already.

People go out and buy and EV feeling smug that they are doing their part to save the planet....where in fact this has not been a proven fact....if these people were indeed so concerned, they'd live, work and occupy an area in which they can either bicycle (not E-bike) or walk to their destinations....that is closer to a zero carbon footprint than owning ANY vehicle...

I blame governments to begin with...governments which have allowed urban sprawl and commuting for work...governments which have made it a necessity to use some sort of conveyance to work or live...but people wouldn't accept any sort of work/live policy imposed by a government....the fact there is such a thing as a "commuter flight" is laughable at best....what's the carbon footprint on that?

Finally I find it sort of amusing that people especially in the United States are very much against governmental interference yet roll over for EV tech that the government itself is planning to force upon it's citizens.......there is no constitutional right to own and drive a car so the government is able to do whatever they wish with zero opposition.

 

[TallTom]

I personally think there are better uses for governmental and private citizen's time and money than the huge drive towards EV....

We look around the globe and the only initiative toward EV tech is the west (and China I suppose only to sell to the west)....all the other global countries have made no progress towards any sort of climate change activity...

The entire global populace has to get on board with fighting pollution both airborne, ground and water...many waters of the world are toxic with huge amounts of toxins and pollutants going into them each and every day yet where is the outrage? Billions of gallons of sewage and industrial waste is going into the very life-blood of the earth but there is nary a peep....

Mining operations (many to gather materials for EV tech) are destroying virgin rain forests and waterways but the drive towards this tech has blinded people to this fact....it is no better for petroleum but we all know about that already.

People go out and buy and EV feeling smug that they are doing their part to save the planet....where in fact this has not been a proven fact....if these people were indeed so concerned, they'd live, work and occupy an area in which they can either bicycle (not E-bike) or walk to their destinations....that is closer to a zero carbon footprint than owning ANY vehicle...

I blame governments to begin with...governments which have allowed urban sprawl and commuting for work...governments which have made it a necessity to use some sort of conveyance to work or live...but people wouldn't accept any sort of work/live policy imposed by a government....the fact there is such a thing as a "commuter flight" is laughable at best....what's the carbon footprint on that?

Finally I find it sort of amusing that people especially in the United States are very much against governmental interference yet roll over for EV tech that the government itself is planning to force upon it's citizens.......there is no constitutional right to own and drive a car so the government is able to do whatever they wish with zero opposition.

I have no problem with concerned citizens spending their resources, financial or otherwise, in the name of the environment. Anyway they want. But EV is no different than other good causes. There has to be positive $$ come out of it. Not -$.

For a time there was a push to recycle paper, plastic, glass. Then suddenly it was stopped. Being the curious type I asked why. Well paper was profitable enough it paid for the rest that wasn't $+. When the price of recycling paper tanked, so did the rest of the recycling.

EVs will thrive, once it makes economic sense.

China is building 6 times more coal fired power plants than anyone else in the world.

 

[Bumblebee]

I have no problem with concerned citizens spending their resources, financial or otherwise, in the name of the environment. Anyway they want. But EV is no different than other good causes. There has to be positive $$ come out of it. Not -$.

For a time there was a push to recycle paper, plastic, glass. Then suddenly it was stopped. Being the curious type I asked why. Well paper was profitable enough it paid for the rest that wasn't $+. When the price of recycling paper tanked, so did the rest of the recycling.

EVs will thrive, once it makes economic sense.

China is building 6 times more coal fired power plants than anyone else in the world.

My concern is all the other outlandish pollution happening right in front of our faces which is doing more to destroy the ecosystem and eliminate habitats for creatures to live in....while on OP in Central America we came across a mining operation and the area looked like the lunar landscape-devoid of all life and the smell was intense...we had to go miles and miles out of our way to skirt around it.

Yet this is seemingly being ignored and the focus is on ICE in western countries...I say western countries because I don't see any countries other than the west getting on the EV train....

Is smog still a thing in North America? I recall back in the day there were smog warnings and not just from wild fires but the burning of fossil fuels...

I do however remember seeing pictures of China before the pandemic and it looked like it was foggy and during the pandemic when no cars were driving it was crystal clear.....did the same thing happen in the US?

 

[Red05]

I do however remember seeing pictures of China before the pandemic and it looked like it was foggy and during the pandemic when no cars were driving it was crystal clear.....

You've listed several forms of pollution. Cars and trucks outnumber every other form. Basic math really.

 

[Bumblebee]

You've listed several forms of pollution. Cars and trucks outnumber every other form. Basic math really.

Basic math be damned, all one has to do is visually witness the destruction of waterways, forests and habitats...and not by airborne pollutants by by man in his quest to find resources and expand.

When you can't go in almost any body of water without it being hazardous to your health or read about how many species are either going extinct or losing their habitat due to humans, or how many forests are being cut down for cities, it's hard to fathom a math figure to equate to this...

......and does this complex math equation take into effect volcanic and wild fire impacts on global warming...

.....and what about the smog question I asked? We are focusing on EV tech for the west, what about other more densely populated countries who's citizens drive many 2 stroke or other non-emission regulated vehicles.....what is being done to sort all that out....?

Not to mention these places both heat, cook and power their grid with coal/ wood or fossil fuels....

North America and the west are small cogs in a very big, nasty wheel but seem to have to carry the weight of the world on our shoulders which makes me wonder just how much money is in this for politicians and big industry........this seems to be the root of all evil, not ICE vehicles.

Regardless this is a good discussion so far with lots of good points on all sides (in my opinion)

Ambient (outdoor) air pollution

WHO fact sheet on ambient (outdoor) air quality guidelines: includes key facts, definition, health effects, guideline values and WHO response.

www.who.int

 

[Bumblebee]

Now that being said, I once rode a Zero FXE bike which was in the form of an enduro and it was decent, it didn't have a lot of range but was fun....

It was supposed to be equivalent to a 450.

The owner bought a second battery pack and made a carrier for the back so he could take two with him...

It looked like this:

 

[Red05]

Basic math be damned, all one has to do is visually witness the destruction of waterways, forests and habitats...and not by airborne pollutants by by man in his quest to find resources and expand.

Avoiding air pollution and preserving forests and waterways are not mutually exclusive. Airborn pollutants are just as damaging and exponentially harder to pinpoint and control. Battery technology is changing at an amazing rate and soon solid state and sodium-ion batteries will make an appearance, which will cut down on the negatives of mining lithium. Interesting how people criticize mining lithium but not so much about coal. Whatever fits the agenda I suppose.
I'll give you this Bee, you're as hard headed and stubborn as anyone on here, but still maintain a good decorum.

 

[sixpack577]

lithium minining and coal mining aren't quite the same, that isn't a fair comparison in terms of enviromental impact.

 

[Red05]

Not saying they are; lithium is more damaging to mine. Just pointing out polarized debating. It seems to be this decade’s trend.

 

[Bumblebee]

I'll give you this Bee, you're as hard headed and stubborn as anyone on here, but still maintain a good decorum.

My determination is what kept myself and members of my team alive over the years....some call it stubbornness or hard headedness...

 

[Bumblebee]

Not saying they are; lithium is more damaging to mine. Just pointing out polarized debating. It seems to be this decade’s trend.

Throw in precious metal mining in that mix as well...some of the gold mines in Central America are like hell on earth.

 

[Bumblebee]

I don't know where this video is from but we see this person pour acid into the water, melt down lead and pour it without any containment to restore a lead/acid battery......pretty scary stuff and I can find many more such videos of recycling all kinds of electronics in a similar fashion....

These practices (and many more) should be brought under control before EV is mainstream or what's the point?

The air might (might) be better but the ground and water will not be habitable....

 

[TallTom]

I don't know where this video is from but we see this person pour acid into the water, melt down lead and pour it without any containment to restore a lead/acid battery......pretty scary stuff and I can find many more such videos of recycling all kinds of electronics in a similar fashion....

These practices (and many more) should be brought under control before EV is mainstream or what's the point?

The air might (might) be better but the ground and water will not be habitable....

It's like Pakistan or a place similar. They also do electric motors etc. Actually provide a decent product. But yeah it's cheap to use them. Because they don't have OSHA, EPA, etc governing them.

 

[pcs]

a f’in KIA…

 

[Bumblebee]

a f’in KIA…

EV has the torque and might be faster but they are without a soul......and it's only a matter of time that insurance companies demand they be restricted and locked.....

.....and give that EV a few years of daily driving and improper or even proper charging and it's battery range won't be long enough to drive to a dragstrip, drag anyone and drive home without charging.

The current ICE Kia Stinger will lay waste to many other brand vehicles..the thing is a monster...

Kia is owned by Hyundai which has poached a team from Germany for R&D of their vehicles...

 

[Red05]

.....and give that EV a few years of daily driving and improper or even proper charging and it's battery range won't be long enough to drive to a dragstrip, drag anyone and drive home without charging.

Not necessarily true. Just like ICE vehicles, there are better and worse examples. A guy at the gym, he's a real estate agent so drives quite a bit, has a '16 Tesla S with 180,000 + miles on it. He says the range may be down about 10% from when it was new, still gets over 200 miles on a charge. The car looks brand new; he keeps it clean. There's plenty of exmples like that, while not supporting your argument contra EV, they do make their owners glad they bought one. There's plenty of ICE vehicle owners that feel the same. By the way, I like the Stingers too. Good looking cars.