engine mods

[1badasbusa]

OK guys, I have been looking at all the different post and trying to come up with a set up that would offer alot more horses than stock. I spun a rod bearing in mine and now im trying to come up with a winter plan.I have a 2000 and bone stock with 20k on it. The only thing that I did was slip ons for a little noise.
I'm seeing all different numbers with different options of mods. One is getting over 200hp with just head work and cams. Another is about the same with the 1397 kit. Another not far from them with the 1397 kit and crank. Then I find a post to just do a 5mm stroker crank and stock bore. I was first think of just doing a big bore kit 1397. Then the reserch leads me to the 08 crank and bump it to a 1441. Being I will probably need a crank,thats not a bad idea.
So I narrow it down to the 1397 kit with the 08 crank and find out the hp #s arnt far off from the good head work and cams. SO is it worth the extra $$$$ to do the 1397 kit a crank? I will also need an exhaust,all the little mods,pair and air filter,power commander.THEN, while I have the motor open I should get the tranny cut,get the swivel oil pick up so I dont spin another rod bearing, the clutch will need help.I wasnt expecting to have to take a second morgage out.All the mods add up to more than the bike is actual worth,BUT its my baby and plan to keep it for a long time so Im figuring on doing this once.
I would like to hit around 220-230hp. I would like reliability.Like we all do. I am more of the twisty guy and track day. I read up on the turbos and dont want to go that way. Like someone posted in the many post I read. You never see a turboed bike in road racing. I use it daily for transpartation to and from work. I do road trips occasionally,and back road blast.
SORRY for rambling. ANY THOUGHTS,OR COMMENTS THAT MAY HELP? Maybe something I forgot?

 

[BIKE DUDE]

Like you said, if you need a crank then you might as well go with the 08.

 

[1badasbusa]

Like you said, if you need a crank then you might as well go with the 08.

True, BUT....what went through my head was to get a good used stock one for $300-$400 or the 08 for $900. Get the stock one and put the extra money towards the good head porting,or trans cut. If adding the crank doesnt do all that much for power then put the money somewhere useful. Waiting to hear from anyone that did the 08 crank swap to see what they think.

 

[Johnnycheese]

find a good bilder and disscuss the pros and cons of everything.

 

[1badasbusa]

find a good bilder and disscuss the pros and cons of everything.

I talked to a few already. I get the sales part of it. Yep we can do that! Oh, ya that will work too. We can do that too. I already got contradicting stories from the same builder. I asked if the 08 crank bumps the compression up and if it was still ok for the street. I got, Oh no you dont want to run that on the street.Call back and talk to the owner and he says, Oh sure we can do that. Thats not a problem for the street. That just added to my confusion. Are you back up and running? What are your thoughts on running the 1397 kit and 08 crank,port the head, cams? Do what is necessary to make it a good reliable high horse power motor. The bottom line of all of this is tuning. One for the most reliable power and two to keep it alive. How is it that you can get a good ported head and cams and make dam near as much as as 1397 with cams and slight port?

 

[Johnnycheese]

hell I am running a 1507 with 13.8:1 and boost.
yep I am up and running but I have to want to do the motor.

Every customer I build one for has to go through what I call an interview, so I know what the customer is going to do with the bike. then you pick their brains untill you know what they are looking for.
you have to remember anyone can build a motor but if it is usless for YOU what good is it.

 

[1badasbusa]

hell I am running a 1507 with 13.8:1 and boost.

you have to remember anyone can build a motor but if it is usless for YOU what good is it.

That is so true. The key to keeping them running and the reason your 1507 stays running is tuning. Your signature says it all.


Johnnycheese Performance

Master map making

I'll have to give you a call and you can pick my brain? I'm not sure how it would work though. You are only 1408 miles from me.

 

[Commuta_Busa]

since you've got to pony up for a new crank you might as well get the Gen II crank. Forget about your 220-230 hp goal and stick to street reliable/durable. You don't want to have to change valve springs every year or every other year. My 1585 was setup for the street (safe tune, mild cams) and lived for four (4) years and about 45k miles. I finally tore into it and the only thing that needed to be replaced were springs and some tappets. As long as it's built right and tuned right you'll be happy with whatever setup for the street. Just don't start chasing high hp numbers.

 

[1badasbusa]

since you've got to pony up for a new crank you might as well get the Gen II crank. Forget about your 220-230 hp goal and stick to street reliable/durable. You don't want to have to change valve springs every year or every other year. My 1585 was setup for the street (safe tune, mild cams) and lived for four (4) years and about 45k miles. I finally tore into it and the only thing that needed to be replaced were springs and some tappets. As long as it's built right and tuned right you'll be happy with whatever setup for the street. Just don't start chasing high hp numbers.

Dayum, you are up early and posting too. LoL. That was kind of the point I was trying to get at, with what you said. I would deffinatly rather have reliable and durable over high hp. It just seemed weird that the hp #s between all of those are fairly close.Give or take 15-20hp or less. So wouldnt it make more sence to just put a stock crank in and get a good head porting done with cams. That would save $$$ too. I'm leaning toward the 1397 and crank though. That is kind of where my head is for now. I still have plenty of time to do more research and talk to builders.

 

[Commuta_Busa]

The Gen II crank is a "stock crank". If you can get either for about the same price I don't see why you wouldn't go with the longer stroke. Porrting is important but really depends on the cams. For everyday street use and tons of miles I wouldn't get cams that are to aggressive. If you go that route then the head doesn't need much porting work.

Also consider in your budget any fuel system changes that may help based on what you end up getting. Also you may want to consider aux fan and 24v start.

 

[1badasbusa]

The Gen II crank is a "stock crank". If you can get either for about the same price I don't see why you wouldn't go with the longer stroke. Porrting is important but really depends on the cams. For everyday street use and tons of miles I wouldn't get cams that are to aggressive. If you go that route then the head doesn't need much porting work.

Also consider in your budget any fuel system changes that may help based on what you end up getting. Also you may want to consider aux fan and 24v start.

Sounds good.Thanks for your thoughts. On top of the aux fan and 24v start ,I also would need an exhaust and power comander. I'm totaly stock.

 

[GoldenChild]

Every customer I build one for has to go through what I call an interview, so I know what the customer is going to do with the bike. then you pick their brains untill you know what they are looking for.
you have to remember anyone can build a motor but if it is useless for YOU what good is it.

Man I tell you what those words should sound like a parrot to you by now...

If a builder doesn't do this for you turn and walk away or hang up the phone...most guys that want big bore this and that are track guys,build this exact setup for the street and you will have issues.

 

[johnnycrash]

True, BUT....what went through my head was to get a good used stock one for $300-$400 or the 08 for $900.

That is what I did - partly because I saved ~$500 and partly because I was having a hard time finding 08 cranks back in January - that might not be the case right now though.

My builder got me 213 (at least on that particular dyno) out of a 13:1 1397 with Web cams and a ported head. It pulls as hard as my stock motor did with a 50 shot and so far so good on reliability - about 6k hard street miles on it so far.

The only thing I should have done differently was go directly to 24v starting.

 

[1badasbusa]

That is what I did - partly because I saved ~$500 and partly because I was having a hard time finding 08 cranks back in January - that might not be the case right now though.

My builder got me 213 (at least on that particular dyno) out of a 13:1 1397 with Web cams and a ported head. It pulls as hard as my stock motor did with a 50 shot and so far so good on reliability - about 6k hard street miles on it so far.

The only thing I should have done differently was go directly to 24v starting.

Thats good to know and hear. Thanks I would be happy with that. What size cams did you go with?

 

[99'busa]

True, BUT....what went through my head was to get a good used stock one for $300-$400 or the 08 for $900. Get the stock one and put the extra money towards the good head porting,or trans cut. If adding the crank doesnt do all that much for power then put the money somewhere useful. Waiting to hear from anyone that did the 08 crank swap to see what they think.

im probably one of the ones you read up on. i have no headwork YET or crank. i opted for an oem crank for the same money reasons. im right at 200 on a concervative dyno. i dont think you need to cut your tranny though. i went with some hd clutch springs and valve springs. i paid 4800 for the kit, oem crank, carillo rods (800.00 of it) je pistons and misc. stuff.

 

[99'busa]

oh i also went with 385 385 cams to still be everyday rider friendly

 

[1badasbusa]

im probably one of the ones you read up on. i have no headwork YET or crank. i opted for an oem crank for the same money reasons. im right at 200 on a concervative dyno. i dont think you need to cut your tranny though. i went with some hd clutch springs and valve springs. i paid 4800 for the kit, oem crank, carillo rods (800.00 of it) je pistons and misc. stuff.

Sounds good. I was thinking of doing the tranny just from everything I have been reading. I figured that since I was in there I mite as well do it. I also never had a hint of trouble or missed a gear with my trans.Now you got me thinking. It sounds like you went with the brock kit. His is a little higher than the others with all the preventive saftey items.
Why did you opt for rods insted of head work? I was thinking stock rods and get a good head port.Or stock rods and the stroker crank.

 

[1badasbusa]

Oh, I thought that wiseco pistons were the only ones that are 12:1 ?

 

[Johnnycheese]

Oh, I thought that wiseco pistons were the only ones that are 12:1 ?

you never go by what is on the box you have to measure to find out what it is at and then set it for what you want.

 

[GoldenChild]

you never go by what is on the box you have to measure to find out what it is at and then set it for what you want.

Correct we found this out at the wrong time,never trust a # on a box...