Anti-Muslim film results in death of American Ambassador

Discussion in 'Random Thoughts' started by Blanca BusaLess, Sep 13, 2012.

  1. Blanca BusaLess

    Blanca BusaLess Suffers from PBSD Donating Member

    Two days later and we are still not talking about it? Tired of the same old same old that goes same way? Ok I can understand that. So I want to discuss a certain angle of this whole mess.

    Filmmaker Sam Bacile in hiding after anti-Muslim film sparks violence in which American diplomat was killed | Fox News

    Truth in the film or not my problem with this is we have one living in USA who identifies himself as an 'Israeli Jew' whom with funds largely donated by Jews makes a film in English that results in anger against us. Now he is in hiding rightfully so. I'm sorry and take it anyway you want but we should not be letting foreigners create these things here and bring this upon us. Why didn't he make it in Israel? Why isn't the film in Yiddish? He knew from get go the result of his actions and went ahead. Why? Not to enlighten anyone but to do and accomplish exactly what has happened. To create further hatred toward Americans from Muslims. Plain and simple. The us ambassadors blood is on his hands. It is his fault, period. Yes he has freedom of speech and all that but same thing as yelling fire in a movie theater you know the result before you act. So there is only one reason this guy did this and that he accomplished. Now the idiots rioting worldwide are idiots because they aren't intelligent enough to attack the correct people or places. But then again there aren't any Israeli embassies in these countries so lets go destroy something, anything.

    Let's say a Muslim director with donated funds from Muslims made a film portraying Jews and their religion in a bad way.
    Do you think it would be allowed? Do you think local police would be protecting the director from harm?
    Why do we as Americans constantly allow these things to be done? Once again we have shot ourselves in the foot. By allowing that film to be made and put out in English has brought this upon us. It's a two faced double standard I'm tired of. The director of the film should be arrested and charged with the death and all deaths because it is as a direct result of his actions this has happened. Now a self proclaimed 'Israeli Jew' sits in hiding and watches Americans die. Total BS!

    I speak as an American.....

    And please before you respond realize that almost ten Libyan Muslims died trying to defend our Ambassador in Libya. This was a coordinated attack orchestrated foreigners.
  2. Skydyvyr

    Skydyvyr Registered

    I understand, and share your frustration here. At first, I agree with your thoughts, but then I'm reminded of the hundreds of thousands who have given their last full measure to protect our freedoms, including the freedom of speech.

    To borrow a line from another (less radical) movie:

    "You want free speech? Let's see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil, who's standing center stage and advocating at the top of his lungs that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours. You want to claim this land as the land of the free? Then the symbol of your country can't just be a flag; the symbol also has to be one of its citizens exercising his right to burn that flag in protest. Show me that, defend that, celebrate that in your classrooms. Then, you can stand up and sing about the "land of the free".

    So ok, my next thought is to let the director speak his mind through his film and pay the consequences of the exercising his freedom of speech by offering him up to those who would destroy him. But then again, if we were to do or demand that, it would have a more chilling effect on the freedom of expression than outright censorship.

    George Washington said:
    If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter.

    I think it is deplorable that presumably good people lost their lives to a group of radicals over a film; one that they will most likely never see and in a language they will never speak. I am frustrated just as you are that this tool of a person had to release a film that would flame the fires of hatred enough to have this result.

    I'll leave with one more quote; fron C.K Chesterton (It's something I say all the time, but his words are more eloquent than mine):
    “To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it.”

  3. Blanca BusaLess

    Blanca BusaLess Suffers from PBSD Donating Member

    So Sky I ask you, flip the coin over. If a Muslim with Muslim contributions made an anti-Semitic film mocking them, their prophet and their religion would you and the majority protect under same sentiment, free speech?
    Whether its this or burning Qurans by the army I'm just tired of everyone looking at the action and not the actor. The actor being the maker of the film who identifies himself as a foreigner based here. The Ambassadors blood is on his hands and he's responsible. At least it looks that way. May turn out to be more media spin and this attack was planned long ago to be done on 9/11?

    Who knows? Anyone?
  4. Skydyvyr

    Skydyvyr Registered

    I'll go you one further, I'm LDS, and in my own country, there are many who make a mockery of things I hold sacred. It is done in film, on broadway, in print and any other media. I absolutely believe in the right of those who disparage my beliefs to free speech and would never desire or attempt to censor them in any way. In fact, if their expressions against things I believe placed them in danger, I would expect them to be similarly protected.

    I just fear the loss of our freedoms. We are sacrificing more and more of them every year under the banner of security. To quote Benjamin Franklin; "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety". I hope the time never comes where we relinquish our freedom of expression for security.

    Again, all that being said, I tell my kids all the time, "Just because you can doesn't mean you should". Do I believe that the person who released that film should have done it, absolutely not! No more so than I believe that those who ridicule my beliefs should do so. Ultimately, I do believe in their right to speak their mind in a public forum. That right should protected at all costs.

    Above and beyond all that, I place the ultimate blame for all of this on those who stormed the embassy and took the lives of those who were there. I hope they are found and destroyed.


    MC MUSTANG Peace Keeper or Ban Hammer; it's up to you... Administrator Donating Member

    Let's discuss -
    I don't care what movie was made or where; the attacks did not begin with the release of the movie, or even the leak of the movie. The Embassy in Cairo was assualted on the 11th of Sept. The Consulate in Libya was assaulted on the 11th of Sept. RPGs, Grenades and Machine guns were used in the assault. This was not simply a religous theme that caused an angry mob; the Ambassador, the Yemeni Security and the American staffers were killed in a calculated attack that was coordinated. I think the one thing that caught everyone by surprise was the Ambassador being there to begin with. That he was killed, I believe was something of a mistake in this action. Quite frankly, I don't accept that it is this guy's movie that is to blame for all this - it may be a catalyst, but I think it is more of a convienient excuse.
  6. m_ridgeway

    m_ridgeway pipeline trash Donating Member

    The dead peoples blood is on nobodies hands but the idiots that kill over a movie. I don't care who funded it, its a movie. If I don't like the movies I don't go killing people I don't watch it, only solution to this problem is to stop policing the world and worry about the problems we have here.
  7. Skydyvyr

    Skydyvyr Registered

    Just a quick note to clarify lest anyone be confused,
    --I do not advocate Flag burning in any way other than the properly executed retiring of a flag.
    --I am not a pacifist in any way. I fully support my second amendment rights and am trained and prepared to defend my family if need be.
    --I believe that we all should be entitled to the same rights, but one person's rights end where another's begin.

  8. Blanca BusaLess

    Blanca BusaLess Suffers from PBSD Donating Member

    Mc that's why I said it may be just media spin. And I agree with the fact it is really on the hands of the ones who acted out violently. But how many times must we condone or allow things we know will aggravate the simpletons? It does seem that these were planned coordinated attacks. I do somewhat doubt any of what's going on is a result of this film solely but I look at it as more gas on a fire we should be trying to put out.
    While we should justly accuse and be upset at the perpetrators of these acts I feel we should still lay blame on the ones pouring the gas.

    MC MUSTANG Peace Keeper or Ban Hammer; it's up to you... Administrator Donating Member

    I do agree that there is some responsibility to stand behind his work; excercism of free speech does not absolve responsibility for it...
  10. GsxrBots

    GsxrBots Motorboatin' Moonpies, Gangnam Style Registered

    Perfect quote MC.. ::4
  11. Blanca BusaLess

    Blanca BusaLess Suffers from PBSD Donating Member

    So then arrest him for inciting violence which resulted in death of innocent folks. Or because he's ...... nothing will happen and we will keep being directed to concentrate on the lunatics?

    Do you think if this guy made a film here in USA would he be in hiding or in jail?

    Would the same folks who extend support to the director of the film in question extend same to him?
  12. DaCol.

    DaCol. D' Colonel Donating Member

    This coordinated attack had NOTHING to do with the film. That was used just an excuse, just like in Egypt. It took months to set up and accomplish a full military attack on 9-11 in Libya.

    For me, I'am tired of all our aplogys to everyone after all our money and lives have been spent on THEIR FREEDOMS. If they don't like us, fine, CUT OFF THE MONEY and Military Support for an unappreciative Government and/or Populist and leave. We have better things to spend it on, like RIGHT HERE ! Have you notice that the New BROTHERHOOD PRESIDENT of Egypt has said NOTHING, nor sent additional security troops to the Embassy ? These guys just look for something to blame their actions on, which has NOTHING to do with the real reason.


    My Opinion !!! :laugh:
  13. zukracer

    zukracer I'm somewhere but dont know where Donating Member

    The film was used to ignite the masses by those seeking to do harm to the US. They know they cannot attack us at home easily so they chose to attack in places they could more easily pull off. The ones responsible for the attack are to blame for fanning the flames caused by the film, which I argue would never likely have been much of an issue without someone championing it as evil in those countries. We face yet another attack today in Yemen. We have 2 battle ships of some form sitting off the Libyan coast and 50 elite Marines heading to secure that embassy. We are supposed to be using drones to find those responsible. Obama and Romney have said their bits.

    Why are we a reactionary force in all of this? We have ample resource deployed in the region. Why the hell don't we increase the military presence in the regions embassies now. Stock them up with ammo and soldiers. Either have it done quietly or very publicly. Do it quietly and perhaps when the next one is attacked and 400 pissed off, heavily armed, well supported Marines come around the wall they will think much harder about pulling this crap again.

    We need to be mindful of the region and politics but we also need to stop saying "oh ok, well lets not offend anyone". That's crap and we need to take a very big stick and beat some heads. If things continue, cut off support, all support. See how long they allow stupid crap to happen in their streets when they are missing the billions in aid the US provides.
  14. Blanca BusaLess

    Blanca BusaLess Suffers from PBSD Donating Member

    I agree. The president blamed the film and laid none on his own people?
  15. Flicka

    Flicka Professional Booga Flicka Moderator

    Saiid, maybe I'm not quite understanding you, but it sounds like you're saying we, the Americans, "had it coming" for this film. Who cares where the film-maker is from, or even where the film was made... It sounds like you're saying that we have a duty to abridge our First Amendment rights in order to prevent hurt feelings in other countries thousands of miles away, and if we fail to do so, then it's okay for others to kill us in return. We should have known better, right? Do hurt feelings justify murder?

    Is that what you're saying?
  16. Skydyvyr

    Skydyvyr Registered

    No doubt (& I agree with Bots that this is a great quote), but what exactly would we hold the individual who distributed the movie responsible for?

    In our society if I say "You Suck" to someone and they decide to hit me for it, they are clearly at fault (Whether I deserve it or not). If however, I yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater, I am at fault. In the first case I expressed an opinion and someone else decided to take action on it, in the second, I created havoc by causing people to fear for their lives. Neither is well advised. I'll admit that there is a fine line between the two, and I don't fully know how to articulate where it is or should be drawn.

  17. Gpmo

    Gpmo Registered

    I blame religion, Seems to me fantastic religious ideals are the problem. I think we should get rid of that before people making movies.

    Intelligence Squared had a great round table debate a few weeks back on if our world would be better off with out religion. It's worth a listen.
  18. Skydyvyr

    Skydyvyr Registered

    So, after all this discussion, I finally actually read the article linked in the OP.

    The full film has been shown once, to a mostly empty theater in Hollywood earlier this year, said Bacile.

    You have got to be kidding me. They are rioting over a film that more people will see as a result of the riots than ever would have without them? I'm glad neither neither my neighbors nor I are so easily offended (or prone to violence).

  19. chrisjp

    chrisjp GM of Haya's in the Hills Donating Member

  20. dadofthree

    dadofthree Seasoned Beef Donating Member

    Wow, the ones responsible are those that perpetrated the acts. I don't think any religion takes more hits than Christianity. In your thinking terrorist have won.

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