if they did that-all airlines would shut down n go out of business!!
becuz NO WOMEN will ever ride an airplane again!
United implements obese policy
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if they did that-all airlines would shut down n go out of business!!
becuz NO WOMEN will ever ride an airplane again!
ibified
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I dont hate someone because they are overweight. I'm not even going to go into all the arguments here about what could be done differently, because it doesnt matter. My only point is that because I am a normal weight, and fit in one seat, i shouldnt be punished by having to share half my cushion with somoene who doesnt fit into one seat.
In this case, i feel your rights end at the edge of my cushion.
CrashTestDanny
Registered
Well, we did everything in our power... maybe we were overbearing about it sometimes... but at the end of the day, she did have to make the choices and she will have to live with the results of those choices. Sometimes she had the opportunity to make better choices than she did, but I think everybody can say that...
I hope you all understand that I don't hate anybody for what was said here, but people that are fat like me - or even bigger maybe - have been beat up all our lives about it and nobody has ever presented a solution that has truly worked for most of us. Some people in our society profited by helping us to get this way while pretending to be our friends. Others entertained themselves at our expense while helping us to stay this way. And now others want to profit more from our misfortune - or maybe from our gullibleness (or is it gullibility?) Either way, there's nothing to gain by treating obese people cruelly or harshly - except perhaps to weed some of them out from heart attacks...
By the by - anyone ever try to sit across two of the airline seats? I have plenty of padding and I'd rather cram into one than sit across two...
F=MA, what kind of equipment are you on? On the Cessnas I fly (T-210, 182, 172) my weight means one empty seat... I can see where you'd have to fly with empty seats on the smaller planes - ERJ, CRJ, etc, but seems like the larger aircraft have enough capacity to spare, especially if they have reduced-density business and first class sections...
CrashTestDanny
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Wasn't talking about me - I was talking about a 7th grader. Giving access to someone whose ability to judge is limited by age or disability will result in problems. Absolutely I blame the school and the junk food industry for my daughter's situation. Did she have the opportunity to make better choices? Sure! But why on Earth should a middle school be promoting this poison to our kids just so they can raise a few bucks?
Now, if you argue that obesity is a self-imposed punishment that invites bigotry, here's one for you... I've observed that a lot of these morons on Hayabusas are terrorizing law-abiding cagers who just want to drive in peace while eating their big macs, putting on their makeup, and talking on their cell phones - all perfectly legal activities, it seems, since I've never seen anybody pulled over for them. The Hayabusa riders are doing wheelies around them and passing them at speeds in excess of 200MPH, causing the cagers significant distress. I think we should add a 100% gas tax for Hayabusa riders in order to discourage this behaviour and make them ride tamer motorcycles... This will reduce the stress for the cagers and make them feel better... The tax is really self imposed, because you're not being forced to ride a Hayabusa...
I forget which place it was we were stationed but there was a 10 or 11% tax on fast food. So when you would drive thru Taco Bell or McDonalds, the sales tax was it's own bill.
Not sure where you're going with the Hayabusa tax analogy because it has absolutely nothing to do with what I'm attempting to get across here. Reference your daughter; I would speculate that you being 350# probably does not provide the best example. Did you get there by pounding healthy food? How about packing a healthy school lunch for her to take? I don't know, sounds to easy to blame others for the situation. Take control of your own lives is all I'm saying.
CrashTestDanny
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She always had a great example from her mother - I've always struggled with my weight. Her mother always packed her a healthy lunch to take and she was never given money for the junk food machines - but she always figured out a way to get it. Usually from the same morons who now ridicule her for her obesity - go figure... Self imposed? Not entirely.
jerseybusa
Registered
CTD - everything that you described that the cagers are doing is ILLEGAL -- inattentive driving. I think, per the law, you are only allowed to drive while driving, no eating, no drinking, and the like.
Also, was every child at your daughter's school obese? Getting fat -- even with a medical condition - is a personal choice. I am a personal trainer and I am in the military, I currently have no one on the fatboy program, I left for Iraq with 6. I helped them at the beginning showing them what/how to eat and helping them with their PT (to the point I was at the gym twice a day every day to accomodate their schedules) but now they do it all on their own and even help out people still on the fatboy program.
What you described about people looking at the obese as bigotry and likening it to race or national origin or hadicap and what not is wrong. Those things the people cannot change -- people can change their weight.
I would be more than happy to give you a true diet (no fad crap) and exercise plan that could help out (not a solicitation, I am FREE-PM me (anyone that wants help can) with an e-mail address if you want a plan) -- I do not focus on weight loss, I focus on body composition -- weight is just a number, many of my clients actually gain weight but lose inches where they want. I worked with a guy that was 525lbs when we started (in less than a year he is below 400) - he just did not know how to eat properly and I made a couple of dietary changes and gave him some exercises to do. He had all the excuses - dad died, bad high school, crappy job, etc.
Also, was every child at your daughter's school obese? Getting fat -- even with a medical condition - is a personal choice. I am a personal trainer and I am in the military, I currently have no one on the fatboy program, I left for Iraq with 6. I helped them at the beginning showing them what/how to eat and helping them with their PT (to the point I was at the gym twice a day every day to accomodate their schedules) but now they do it all on their own and even help out people still on the fatboy program.
What you described about people looking at the obese as bigotry and likening it to race or national origin or hadicap and what not is wrong. Those things the people cannot change -- people can change their weight.
I would be more than happy to give you a true diet (no fad crap) and exercise plan that could help out (not a solicitation, I am FREE-PM me (anyone that wants help can) with an e-mail address if you want a plan) -- I do not focus on weight loss, I focus on body composition -- weight is just a number, many of my clients actually gain weight but lose inches where they want. I worked with a guy that was 525lbs when we started (in less than a year he is below 400) - he just did not know how to eat properly and I made a couple of dietary changes and gave him some exercises to do. He had all the excuses - dad died, bad high school, crappy job, etc.
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MelodicMetalGod
Registered
CrashTestDanny,
Please understand that this is not about hating overweight/obese/out of shape people b/c of their condition. It's about not penalizing those around them for not being in the same condition.
From your posts, it sounds like the issue of weight has been a challenge for you and your daughter, and I don't doubt that it is challenging. I've know folks on both sides of that coin, some can't lose weight and are ridiculed for being fat, some can't gain weight and are ridiculed for being skinny. It is particularly unfortunate when there is a truly overwhelming medical condition that imposes an unwanted body composition. However, IMHO and in my experience, that VAST majority of folks that are not in the shape that they wish to be in are there b/c of the choices they have made. Are those choices influenced by marketing and peer pressure? Absolutely! But, nonetheless, ultimately, those choices are made by the individual, regardless of why.
In my own experience, I have never been in a given shape, good or bad, and not known exactly how I got there and exactly what I needed to do to get out it and into the shape that I wanted.
In my observations of EVERY single family member of mine, their shape has been determined 100% by their choices. Some have particular conditions that make their choices more difficult, but none have conditions that make getting into decent (not great, just decent, moderately healthy shape) markedly difficult IF they made it a priority to do so. Still, many have chosen to NOT make it a priority.
My observations of virtually EVERY friend and acquaintance has been the same. All have the ability, through choices, to achieve whatever shape/level of health that they wish, yet most choose to not make the effort.
Ironically, considering your comments of biggotry, those who do make the effort are often completely discredited by those who don't make the effort. The in shape folks often receive from out of shape folks such back-handed compliments as "Oh, you look great! I WISH I had your metabolism." or "You're one of the blessed folks that can eat anything they want and not gain an ounce.". Such statements are, of course, just as ludicrous as "If I eat a carrot, it goes straight to my hips.".
My point here is that 99% or more of us have the ability to direct our level of health through choice. Some folks have harder choices to make than others, no question, but we all have choices. I make good and bad choices all the time, but I lean towards good choices and when I make bad choices I know that I'm inviting the consequences of those choices. If I'm not prepared to suffer the consequences, I make a different choice.
Again, the idea here is not to penalize overweight folks. The agenda is to NOT penalize smaller folks for the choices of overweight folks who DO have a choice in their health and have chosen to make choices that result in their being overweight.
As others have mentioned, it takes more space and more fuel/energy to provide for a larger person.
Finally, I ask these questions:
1) Why shouldn't heavier folks pay more/lighter folks pay less to fly given the add'l fuel needed to move them?
2) Why should heavier folks be allowed to squeeze into the seat space of smaller folks? They paid for only their own space, not a portion of someone elses space.
3) Why should smaller folks not insist on having the use of their entire seat space. Again, they paid for that space, shouldn't they have every expectation of having full use?
With respect.
Please understand that this is not about hating overweight/obese/out of shape people b/c of their condition. It's about not penalizing those around them for not being in the same condition.
From your posts, it sounds like the issue of weight has been a challenge for you and your daughter, and I don't doubt that it is challenging. I've know folks on both sides of that coin, some can't lose weight and are ridiculed for being fat, some can't gain weight and are ridiculed for being skinny. It is particularly unfortunate when there is a truly overwhelming medical condition that imposes an unwanted body composition. However, IMHO and in my experience, that VAST majority of folks that are not in the shape that they wish to be in are there b/c of the choices they have made. Are those choices influenced by marketing and peer pressure? Absolutely! But, nonetheless, ultimately, those choices are made by the individual, regardless of why.
In my own experience, I have never been in a given shape, good or bad, and not known exactly how I got there and exactly what I needed to do to get out it and into the shape that I wanted.
In my observations of EVERY single family member of mine, their shape has been determined 100% by their choices. Some have particular conditions that make their choices more difficult, but none have conditions that make getting into decent (not great, just decent, moderately healthy shape) markedly difficult IF they made it a priority to do so. Still, many have chosen to NOT make it a priority.
My observations of virtually EVERY friend and acquaintance has been the same. All have the ability, through choices, to achieve whatever shape/level of health that they wish, yet most choose to not make the effort.
Ironically, considering your comments of biggotry, those who do make the effort are often completely discredited by those who don't make the effort. The in shape folks often receive from out of shape folks such back-handed compliments as "Oh, you look great! I WISH I had your metabolism." or "You're one of the blessed folks that can eat anything they want and not gain an ounce.". Such statements are, of course, just as ludicrous as "If I eat a carrot, it goes straight to my hips.".
My point here is that 99% or more of us have the ability to direct our level of health through choice. Some folks have harder choices to make than others, no question, but we all have choices. I make good and bad choices all the time, but I lean towards good choices and when I make bad choices I know that I'm inviting the consequences of those choices. If I'm not prepared to suffer the consequences, I make a different choice.
Again, the idea here is not to penalize overweight folks. The agenda is to NOT penalize smaller folks for the choices of overweight folks who DO have a choice in their health and have chosen to make choices that result in their being overweight.
As others have mentioned, it takes more space and more fuel/energy to provide for a larger person.
Finally, I ask these questions:
1) Why shouldn't heavier folks pay more/lighter folks pay less to fly given the add'l fuel needed to move them?
2) Why should heavier folks be allowed to squeeze into the seat space of smaller folks? They paid for only their own space, not a portion of someone elses space.
3) Why should smaller folks not insist on having the use of their entire seat space. Again, they paid for that space, shouldn't they have every expectation of having full use?
With respect.
Maybe the next generation of planes needs to be built for a more accurate "average" size for its' passengers? People are not only heavier now but they are also taller. Just think of the difference between a man and womans' average size, if the seat size is built to the average then most men will be cramped in a seat built to that average. Maybe there should be mens seats and womans seats? My point is that perhaps when future planes are being designed they should be made about 12 inches wider and about 6 feet longer. Instead of cramming more people into that new space they should give all the seats 2 more inchs of width and some more leg room. That wouldn't solve 100% of the problems but who could say that they wouldn't be more comfortable with just a little more personal space? I know it would cost a bit more to build these slightly larger planes and use a bit more fuel but, with the cost of flying already pretty high, how much more would it take to cover the cost per ticket over the life of the plane? $20? So instead of $400 to fly to somewhere it is now $420 and everyone on the plane has bussiness class seating space. Don't we as customers deserve some comfort for that kind of money.
And to all you small to average size people that think that the extra $20 is unfair to you, maybe we should raise all counters, water fountains, ATM machines and whatever else that I find too short and make you buy stepstools so you can use them? Just food for thought.
And to all you small to average size people that think that the extra $20 is unfair to you, maybe we should raise all counters, water fountains, ATM machines and whatever else that I find too short and make you buy stepstools so you can use them? Just food for thought.
Projekt
Registered
I just ate a large meal at McDonalds. If I continue to do so I will become obese or even morbidly obese in a matter of time.
The "woah is me" mentality is extremely overused in America when it comes to obesity. And people, STOP BLAMING IT ON YOUR THYROID!
Having grown up in a household of obese people, I know first hand what obesity causes and what causes it. A feeling of helplessness about the condition is common. The obese people I know would never show me the extent of their food consumption. My obese diabetic type II sister was never seen eating but she was always very large. We learned that she hid her binging and overeating only to join us for regular meals at home and at restaurants claiming to be unable to finish so much food. ??? Puhleeze! So, Danny.. Odds are that your mom was sneaking food when nobody was looking.
It is a commonly understood phenomenon that the people you are around will influence your body composition. That is why fat people have fat friends. Similarly, regions of the USA tend to have higher rates of obesity because when a majority of people in town are obese, it all starts to look normal.
If you shop at WalMart it is only a matter of time before you look like a walrus.. Okay, okay, a little humor but you get the picture.
Overall, the American expectation of being coddled and everything being PC has much to do with the current state of affairs. Add to that a predatory capitalist mentality and you have a lot of gullible people believing that "They just can't help it and it is a disorder".
And that folks is a giant pile of BullSh!t...
The "woah is me" mentality is extremely overused in America when it comes to obesity. And people, STOP BLAMING IT ON YOUR THYROID!
Having grown up in a household of obese people, I know first hand what obesity causes and what causes it. A feeling of helplessness about the condition is common. The obese people I know would never show me the extent of their food consumption. My obese diabetic type II sister was never seen eating but she was always very large. We learned that she hid her binging and overeating only to join us for regular meals at home and at restaurants claiming to be unable to finish so much food. ??? Puhleeze! So, Danny.. Odds are that your mom was sneaking food when nobody was looking.
It is a commonly understood phenomenon that the people you are around will influence your body composition. That is why fat people have fat friends. Similarly, regions of the USA tend to have higher rates of obesity because when a majority of people in town are obese, it all starts to look normal.
If you shop at WalMart it is only a matter of time before you look like a walrus..
Okay, okay, a little humor but you get the picture.Overall, the American expectation of being coddled and everything being PC has much to do with the current state of affairs. Add to that a predatory capitalist mentality and you have a lot of gullible people believing that "They just can't help it and it is a disorder".
And that folks is a giant pile of BullSh!t...
I think we just uncovered the Number One way to make everybody's Busa Faster
Hmmmm...waitaminute-I could stop eating so much...OR-I could drop $4000 for a turbo kit, $3500 for Carbon Fiber rims, $300 for ceramic bearings, $500 for NOS; and THEN I can do an 11-sec 1/4mile!!!
That sounds WAAAAAAY easier than sticking to a diet that would keep me healthy, NOT eating all that garbage that I see at every Quik-poison Depot *my new terminology for Fast-food joints* and hmmm...mebbe EXCERCISING after work for 30min-oh, but wait- "my fav. tv show is on!" "Im too stressed out from work today" "I have too much to get done tonight" "My kids need me to do their homework for them again" "My tummy hurts" "My ankle is still sore from tha last time"........
Excuses for NOT doing anything about a weight problem are just like BigDiesel...I mean A**holes
: Everybody's got one-it just depends how you use it
Hmmmm...waitaminute-I could stop eating so much...OR-I could drop $4000 for a turbo kit, $3500 for Carbon Fiber rims, $300 for ceramic bearings, $500 for NOS; and THEN I can do an 11-sec 1/4mile!!!
That sounds WAAAAAAY easier than sticking to a diet that would keep me healthy, NOT eating all that garbage that I see at every Quik-poison Depot *my new terminology for Fast-food joints* and hmmm...mebbe EXCERCISING after work for 30min-oh, but wait- "my fav. tv show is on!" "Im too stressed out from work today" "I have too much to get done tonight" "My kids need me to do their homework for them again" "My tummy hurts" "My ankle is still sore from tha last time"........
Excuses for NOT doing anything about a weight problem are just like BigDiesel...I mean A**holes
: Everybody's got one-it just depends how you use it
Hayabusa2005
Registered
C.T.D., I fly a CRJ. Since you're already "paying" for an extra seat in the piston singles you fly I can see now we didn't need to go over the payload issue. As "Regional" Jets serve more markets in the U.S. than Narrowbody or Widebody jets, more passengers tend to be impacted by the increasing mass of Americans.
Yes, larger aircraft generally have a little more excess payload capacity available, but all aircraft are designed and built with a specific mission in mind. The aircraft I fly is rarely performance limited except at selected airports...the problem usually comes in the form of a landing weight limitation.
@insomniac - Welcome to the .org...thanks for posting.
You might want to google "MaxJet" to see what happens when an airline tries to give customers adequate space. Unfortunately the overwhelming majority of passengers focus on one thing alone when sitting in the comfort of their homes purchasing tickets...and it's not safety, comfort, or convenience. If airline "A" is a dollar cheaper than airline "B" and there's not frequent flier mile benefit to consider, guess which ticket is going to get purchased? Nevermind that airline A's pilots just graduated school. Nevermind that that connecting flight is physically impossible to make. Nevermind that no meal is served, or that our hypothetical passenger will arrive at their destination with a blood clot from being cramped. Because airline B has experienced flight crews that cost each passenger a couple of pennies more, or an extra half inch of seat pitch (the distance between seats measured on the longitudinal axis of the aircraft) airline B doesn't get the business.
As a result, we see a customer driven "race to the bottom" as airlines compete against one another to provide the least amount of service the customer will accept. To do anything else is not being in tune with customer needs and will ultimately result in the failure of the business.
It's the idiotic consumer who drives this economy, and their voracious appetite for Wal-Mart level product.
Yes, larger aircraft generally have a little more excess payload capacity available, but all aircraft are designed and built with a specific mission in mind. The aircraft I fly is rarely performance limited except at selected airports...the problem usually comes in the form of a landing weight limitation.
@insomniac - Welcome to the .org...thanks for posting.
You might want to google "MaxJet" to see what happens when an airline tries to give customers adequate space. Unfortunately the overwhelming majority of passengers focus on one thing alone when sitting in the comfort of their homes purchasing tickets...and it's not safety, comfort, or convenience. If airline "A" is a dollar cheaper than airline "B" and there's not frequent flier mile benefit to consider, guess which ticket is going to get purchased? Nevermind that airline A's pilots just graduated school. Nevermind that that connecting flight is physically impossible to make. Nevermind that no meal is served, or that our hypothetical passenger will arrive at their destination with a blood clot from being cramped. Because airline B has experienced flight crews that cost each passenger a couple of pennies more, or an extra half inch of seat pitch (the distance between seats measured on the longitudinal axis of the aircraft) airline B doesn't get the business.
As a result, we see a customer driven "race to the bottom" as airlines compete against one another to provide the least amount of service the customer will accept. To do anything else is not being in tune with customer needs and will ultimately result in the failure of the business.
It's the idiotic consumer who drives this economy, and their voracious appetite for Wal-Mart level product.
MelodicMetalGod
Registered
Excellent, and sadly true, points.
For the record, I have, on many occassion paid or been willing to pay up to 20% more to avoid an airline I didn't like (cough, cough, SW, cough, cough) or use an airline I did like. Paying for quality is almost always better than saving for crap.
huh? ???
then how do we explain Harley-Davidson's???
becuz I cant think of a better example of saving for CRAP
Rojo
Registered
Called "Nudity" "Porn" | Random Thoughts
I am still trying to figure out what the relationship is between riding a racing bike and women's bodies- particularly their breasts. Is it part of the culture i.e., big fatty breasts are desirable by men that ride? Also, I wonder how some guys here don't see this as sexual or sexist- rather...
#FaceBookJail *
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