turbo vs big bore

(him @ Mar. 22 2005 said:
(Cloud9 @ Mar. 21 2005 said:
I was going to build a big bore and there are a lot of hidden costs to do it... ;)

I went turbo.... bigger back for the buck and still got room to grow.
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HOw much of a hidden cost...there is a hidden cost in everything...

Get a new rear tire...differnt model have to change the front
Get a Full system...bike wont run right without a pc
Go nitrous...need a controller so you dont blow yourself up
Got a turbo...need bigger injectors so i can get 300 hp need a swingarm so i dont loop the thing...need a smaller rear so i dont loop the thing...need to have the front lower so i dont loop it at the strip.

There is a post about a guy on this board who threw 25k into his bike because his turbo kept blowing up.  Id go with teh motor work
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Your probably referring to Doc Busa's bike...What you've got to remember is that he bought that bike as a boost bike and did not build it himself...So apparently the bike had significant problems when he bought it that he was not aware of...And his current builder was not able to find the root cause of the problem i.e. kept blowing motors...The same can happen with a build motor...

There are hidden cost in everything that you do to the bike, as you have noted...

I looked at it from this point of view...Go turbo on stock motor absolutely no internal upgrade with more available HP or go with the big bore with major internal upgrades and still need NOS to even approach the HP of the turbo...

Simply put you get what you pay for and/or you pay for what you get...
 
(him @ Mar. 22 2005 said:
(Cloud9 @ Mar. 21 2005 said:
I was going to build a big bore and there are a lot of hidden costs to do it... ;)

I went turbo.... bigger back for the buck and still got room to grow.
Click to expand...
HOw much of a hidden cost...there is a hidden cost in everything...

Get a new rear tire...differnt model have to change the front
Get a Full system...bike wont run right without a pc
Go nitrous...need a controller so you dont blow yourself up
Got a turbo...need bigger injectors so i can get 300 hp need a swingarm so i dont loop the thing...need a smaller rear so i dont loop the thing...need to have the front lower so i dont loop it at the strip.

There is a post about a guy on this board who threw 25k into his bike because his turbo kept blowing up.  Id go with teh motor work
Click to expand...
Turbo bikes generally blow up because they are not tuned correctly... I have seen the horror stories too, but more times then not it is because they made a mistake...

If you are going to go turbo, go all the way, and don't have ass it...

Buddy of mine on this board ran his boost hose too close to the fan blade and it got chopped on the dyno and he went super lean and burnt pistons... Usually people are blowing engines up because they go lean in some way or another and usually it is not the turbos fault... My 2 cents.
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The hidden costs are hidden with a big bore, but once you start building her up and getting parts, you need all kinds of stuff you hadn't thought about... (When you start to look into it you will see what I mean.) I couldn't find a kit like a turbo that came with everything for the big bore. It was kind of piecing it together. Those that say they have kits don't have enough in it to say thats all you need...

With big bore and NOS, I was going to be lucky to hit 270HP with a good 5k into it. I could do that with the smallest turbo kit...

Key to turbo is find someone that knows what they are doing... (Some of the turbo kits are not that great as well and I would stick to kits that people seem to have less problems with.)

Do your homework and analyse the issues people are having... Most of hte issues I have seen people list are user error if you ask me...
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Cloud

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Well im not looking for super big power im looking for 200 hp thats rideable and that i can take on some twisty roads and run at 8-9k all day and i just dont think you can do that with a turdbo can you...after a while doesnt heat get the best of the bike. I need reliablity cause i dont have casue to be fixing shid everytime something goes out
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. Does anyone have probs out of their motor work?
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(him @ Mar. 23 2005 said:
Well im not looking for super big power im looking for 200 hp thats rideable and that i can take on some twisty roads and run at 8-9k all day and i just dont think you can do that with a turdbo can you...after a while doesnt heat get the best of the bike.  I need reliablity cause i dont have casue to be fixing shid everytime something goes out
wink.gif
. Does anyone have probs out of their motor work?
rock.gif
Click to expand...
It's my understanding that a boosted bike will do exactly what your referring...Run infinitely at a moderate rpm level with no problems...But at the same time you wouldn't want to hold it at the rev limiter as you would not any bike...There are boosted bike that ride the "Gap" all the time and they love it...That's not my style of riding however...And if you are concerned about costly repairs you may need to stray from either...Not saying that you would have any problems just that you need to be prepared should you have problems...
 
I dont mind repairing but id rather be riding than reparing and i think the motor work will give you the best chance to do that
 
so you make 179 hp with motor work or were you saying you make 179 on the motor? ANy torque increses and what was the cost?[/QUOTE]

I made 179 HP on motor big bore to the rear wheel
Now here was my cost though $4800 for a 1363 motor with carrilo h beam rods and weisco pistons, yosh cams, port and polish work and the nitrous setup.

My second bike will be stock boar with crower rods and je turbo pistons cost is looking to be about 7000to8000 but i am doing motor work and capable of over 500HP if i so desire but on pump gas i'm shooting for 310

On my overboar bike i have had no problems with heating what so ever but my comp ratio is only 12.5:1 which is not really on the high side i have about 4000 miles and about 50 drag runs on it.

you could run pretty safely with a 1397 bike and compression lower then 13:1 you will have starting ease along with no heating probs and longevity you can figure the more you go past 1397 and higher the 13:1 compression the hotter it's gona run but with that setup i think you could hit 200Hp on the rear wheel and be pretty satisfied

But for cost bang for the buck a ghetto turbo installed and tuned was about $5500 give or take a bit i belive where my motor build was $4800 Now look at the diffrence in power

179 to 241 with a shot for $4800 Or
250 easily reliable with no overload for $5500
$700  and you have good reliable power all the time with out maxing injectors or probs with detination as long as tuned right where as the over boar you have to keep refillin NOs bottles to get somewhat close and it's only for a brief seconds

If your worried about other turbo stuff add a spacer plate for extra security on the stage one kit and run the lower HP and you will be good to go.

If i had it all to do over again i'd probly go with Boost over the Big bore just cause of cost effectiveness

But otherwise i'm really happy with my Big bore bike and will never trade it or sell it unless someone give me a ungawdly awful amount of money for it cause i have stuck way to much into it

Now here is my dyno sheet from my bike same dyno place did all the testing only diffrence is the time of the year

Stock run was with HMF dual Highs no PC
overboar run had HmF single High with K&N and small box mod
and last run was with the Nos



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Dyno_02busa2.jpg
 
i was looking at spazracing .com and he has a 1360 kit that is supposed to put 205-210 to the ground like i said i only want about 200 hp but for 4800and only getting 179 its not worth it...ill wait till next year and probably go turdbo i guess...ill just run low boost cause i dont want too much more than 200hp
 
yeah mine shoulda pushed alittle more but with the lower comp is where ya can lose alotta horse power and well i think low boost application of 240 would work great kinda hard to do just 200 on boost i have heard of them going as low as 220
 
May be something to look into for teh winter time
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Something else I was just thinking about, A big Bore is ALLWAYS a BIG BORE... A Turbo can be tuned to just about nothing, and is really only cranking away with high boost when your Cranking away with high RPMS, HIGH Boost settings. SO, in theory you could run alot of boost just once in awhile, and the rest of the time jsut have a mean sounding Busa that is pretty damned reliable running 2LBS of boost or so..... Hmmm....
 
(Revlis @ Mar. 23 2005 said:
Something else I was just thinking about, A big Bore is ALLWAYS a BIG BORE...  A Turbo can be tuned to just about nothing, and is really only cranking away with high boost when your Cranking away with high RPMS, HIGH Boost settings. SO, in theory you could run alot of boost just once in awhile, and the rest of the time jsut have a mean sounding Busa that is pretty damned reliable running 2LBS of boost or so.....   Hmmm....
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And on that note I've been contemplating toning the "STUNGUN" down to about 4pds...I just don't need the 6pds which is about 250hp...I just a bit wild for me and my current riding style...But it's nice to know it's there if I call on her...Maybe I'll just stay out of the throttle...
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so 2lbs of boost will get more than 200 hp
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hmm cool deal didn;t think they could go down to 200hp thats kinda of nice to know deal from what i heard though most everyone ran 220 to 240 on the low side guess it's nice to know you can turn it down lower though well there ya go Him looks like turbo is best bet all around ya can go from mild to wild if ya like on that setup.

Main reason i did overboar this first year was 1 my bike blew up and 2 there really is no good turbo guy for at least 400 miles away from me so i wanted more snap without haveing the worry But now i'm gona have a turbo too so at least if the turbo bike has a prob i still have something to ride
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I got to start saving my pennies now...my triplie tree will be my last mod till next winter
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ok reading this post I have come to the conclusion that more compression brings more heat, why not drop to a 8 or 8.5:1 piston? Go with a 1397 or 1500, turbo nitros and their ya go, whoops got to remember that intercooler.
 
You're calculating based on a car. Larger pumps, more surface area to cool, not as much exposure to air cooling capabilities, materials which don't disipate heat as quickly etc. In the middle of summer you can remove your thermostat on a Hayabusa and it will operate FINE. ONLY in the cooler months should anyone argue this at all due to the fact the bike will require allot more time and usage to get its operating temps into range. HOWEVER most big bore and turbo guys are running synthetic oil, which also somewhat helps negate the need to have such a high operating temp compared to using fossil fuels.

[/QUOTE]

I've never understood the whole synthetic oil/coolant thing. Synthetic oils don't cool quicker, they deal with heat break down better. But I digress.

IF you get away with running no t-stat on a bike, then thats all hunky dorry, but its not how the system was designed, and you're still bandaiding the system for a problem that shouldn't be bandaided IMO. You are right that I'm mostly related to the car world on that issue, but most of the time when I've seen bikers trying to pull the t-stat out of their bike, they had another issue that was obviously a problem that they either hadn't successfully diagnosed, or were avoiding.



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