Tuning when adding exhaust?

[Klutch556]

Ok guys, I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, I’m about as bright as a Kentucky lightbulb when it comes to bikes. (And a lot of other poop my wife just informed me)
So I was under the impression that when I install my akrapovic exhaust (full system) that I need a tune and that tune could be fine with a ecu flash.

But today my little world of perceived understanding was crushed when I was told that I also need a power commander (or equivalent) for the fuel mapping portion of the tune. That you can’t really map out the fuel through a ecu flash.

TL/DR
one guy says stick on exhaust and send ecu to be flashed for that specific exhaust.

Other dude says you have to have the ecu flashed as well as a fuel management system and it needs to go on a dyno.
Also, I’m in the Cincinnati area, who around here has a dyno and is reputable?

 

[Sandow]

It all depends if you replace it with a full system or just slip ons.

full system - tune! (and no- not just a flash!)

slip ons - nope

 

[busabobh]

An ecu flash can do many things, yes it can be tuned thru ecu ( still need the dyno) . You can tune with a PC (still need the dyno) and can flash ecu, I preferred the PC tune, matter of choice and what you believe

 

[c10]

We have all seen my bike , and many videos right ? The bird is real rich 11.8 was my AFR no tune with a full system that I ran for two years , and 20,xxx miles . No tune , no junk power commander to fail . I did have a flashed ECU from @Boosted Cycle Perf , but this just unlocks top speed , and a few other things are changed .
Fueling was still stock from Suzuki . No damage , and bike ran great . Last month we finally got RJ on the dyno for a custom tune . I gained 5 hp over all , but more than 10 hp / Tq over a 4800 rpm range .
Night , and day difference . So here it is in a nut shell .

Will you blow your bike = NO
Will you gain power = Yes
Maximum power = NO
Will you save weight = Yes
Will it sound good = Yes
Do you need PCV = NO
Will PCV solve my problem of no tuner = Maybe

FYI Dyno Jet does have a base line map for the Bird with the Akro system .

 

[fallenarch]

Here's the poop:

If you add a full exhaust you should have the bike tuned on a dyno for best results and safety for your engine. There are two ways to actually map the tune into the bike:

First is with a "piggy back" unit like a power commander or Bazzazz or something similar (I recommend the PC5). What these things do is take the stock signals your ECU sends to the engine and alter them by adding fuel. On a dyno, the tuner creates a map that resides in the PC5 (or other) and that adjusts the signals sent to the engine to maintain optimum tune. Most tuners will be familiar with the PC5, it is the most common way bikes are tuned on a Dyno and many dynos are actually from Dynojet, who makes the PC5. PC5's are very reliable and proven but must be installed on the bike (very easy). Note that if you want to run a map from a manufacturer, you'll probably need a PC5 to load the map.

Second way is an ECU flash. This actually goes into the ECU and re-programs it based on the dyno tune. This means you won't need any additional hardware for the bike. Finding a tuner that can do a flash might be more difficult, but it's a clean way to get a custom tune.

Both methods are acceptable and work equally well. You don't need to do both just the one you prefer. All of this is just adjusting the engine control mapping. You can also get the ECU flashed to remove things like the top speed limiter or to raise the redline. This is also an ECU Flash but is independent of the mapping part. You can send you ECU to tuners like Powerhouse to get this done after the bike is tuned.

So, for a tune with your new pipe you need either a ECU Flash or a PC5, either one will require a dyno tune. Then if you want some additional features you can get Flashed to adjust the features you want.

 

[busabobh]

Arch, we said the same thing but you explained it better, you the sprained.

 

[Sandow]

Arch, we said the same thing but you explained it better, you the sprained.

mine was the shortest and still true

 

[busabobh]

Some how the last part didn’t come out right “ you the esplainer”.

 

[fallenarch]

mine was the shortest and still true

A man asked for a fish, I taught him to fish. Ha ha ha ha

 

[Klutch556]

I think i'll go the ECU route. So if i sent it to Frank at powerhouse, got it flashed and reinstalled then i would need to take it to a shop with a dyno and they can adjust the fuel to be richer or leaner?

Did i understand everything right?

 

[ottafish]

Question....
On a dyno tune, how many tuners play with timing maps as well as fuel maps?

Reason I ask is a PC5 alone can't do timing, (needs add on module) but tuning the ecu I would assume allow you to change the timing across all gears?

 

[Sandow]

A man asked for a fish, I taught him to fish. Ha ha ha ha

I gave him the prepared fish which he only had to warm up in the microwave...

 

[POWERHOUSE]

I know right! I watched this bike on craigslist for almost a year, it would be posted then come off, the price kept dropping and I said well this one must be meant for me! When I picked it up the seller said he had tons of interests but not many would come see the bike they thought it was a scam or something given the miles and price. Funny part he is in law enforcement. Worked out great for me and I've already put 1700 miles on it since I've bought it

I think i'll go the ECU route. So if i sent it to Frank at powerhouse, got it flashed and reinstalled then i would need to take it to a shop with a dyno and they can adjust the fuel to be richer or leaner?

Did i understand everything right?

No you didn’t. First off, it would take three times as long on the dyno - easily 6 hours - to develop a fuel tune through the ecu as opposed to maybe an hour to do a more precise and much more accurate tune using a pc. I would put one of my custom tunes up against any sh*t ecu fuel tune any day of the week. Remember this started when you were considering one of Schnitz-heads ecu “acrapovic” flashes as the way to go to get an accurate fuel map. Not so. But then again, I’ve only been tuning over twenty years, what do I know. Btw, the OP is miles from me, I have nothing to gain by giving what I consider to be good advice. I will no longer help, opinions should be based on experience, you should consider the source, always. I’m done, carry on!

 

[c10]

Power commander is going the way of the dodo bird. It's all in the ECU already.
Fuel tables are fuel tables.
Frank likes the PC, but most others tune through ecu today. If you go ecu you need a harness that pig tails into the ecu. This allows ECU tuning while on a dyno.

 

[fallenarch]

No you didn’t. First off, it would take three times as long on the dyno - easily 6 hours - to develop a fuel tune through the ecu as opposed to maybe an hour to do a more precise and much more accurate tune using a pc. I would put one of my custom tunes up against any sh*t ecu fuel tune any day of the week. Remember this started when you were considering one of Schnitz-heads ecu “acrapovic” flashes as the way to go to get an accurate fuel map. Not so. But then again, I’ve only been tuning over twenty years, what do I know. Btw, the OP is miles from me, I have nothing to gain by giving what I consider to be good advice. I will no longer help, opinions should be based on experience, you should consider the source, always. I’m done, carry on! ✌

I simply gave the OP the options. If he is close to you by all means drop the bike off to Frank and you're done. Maybe I didn't say I have a PC5 that was tuned 8 years and the bike has been perfect every since.

 

[fallenarch]

Power commander is going the way of the dodo bird. It's all in the ECU already.
Fuel tables are fuel tables.
Frank likes the PC, but most others tune through ecu today. If you go ecu you need a harness that pig tails into the ecu. This allows ECU tuning while on a dyno.

I have to be careful here because @c10 is far ahead of me on this issue. I know 3 tuners in my area that won't touch an ECU flash. Only one will flash. If you wanted to run a stock Akropovic map until you can get a bike specific dyno map, I bet they only have PC5 maps. PC5 is easy and my recommendation if you don't want to get into the technical of the ECU. Pretty sure that's solid advice.

 

[POWERHOUSE]

I have years of experience doing both ecu fuel tunes and fuel tunes with PCs and other platforms. Fuel tables are not the issue, the software used to interact with those tables is. If you have not done both, your opinion is useless as to which way is better and why. And stating what “most” are doing is useless, as well. Stating what you do and what experience you have had over the years on the other hand is very useful, which is what Arch did. I am personally tired of this pissing match every time this subject comes up. And it always ends up the same way : advising that the op find a reputable tuner and go with whatever that tuner recommends. You know what they say about opinions!

 

[c10]

I have years of experience doing both ecu fuel tunes and fuel tunes with PCs and other platforms. Fuel tables are not the issue, the software used to interact with those tables is. If you have not done both, your opinion is useless as to which way is better and why. And stating what “most” are doing is useless, as well. Stating what you do and what experience you have had over the years on the other hand is very useful, which is what Arch did. I am personally tired of this pissing match every time this subject comes up. And it always ends up the same way : advising that the op find a reputable tuner and go with whatever that tuner recommends. You know what they say about opinions!

My experience is better than you think it is.
Remember I never stand to make $$$, but rather save some one $$$. It's not a Turbo bike in this thread. Just another NA bike.
I tune old school with jets

 

[fallenarch]

Carbs and ECU's are to different animals right?

 

[michael parris heuberger]

Here's the poop:

If you add a full exhaust you should have the bike tuned on a dyno for best results and safety for your engine. There are two ways to actually map the tune into the bike:

First is with a "piggy back" unit like a power commander or Bazzazz or something similar (I recommend the PC5). What these things do is take the stock signals your ECU sends to the engine and alter them by adding fuel. On a dyno, the tuner creates a map that resides in the PC5 (or other) and that adjusts the signals sent to the engine to maintain optimum tune. Most tuners will be familiar with the PC5, it is the most common way bikes are tuned on a Dyno and many dynos are actually from Dynojet, who makes the PC5. PC5's are very reliable and proven but must be installed on the bike (very easy). Note that if you want to run a map from a manufacturer, you'll probably need a PC5 to load the map.

Second way is an ECU flash. This actually goes into the ECU and re-programs it based on the dyno tune. This means you won't need any additional hardware for the bike. Finding a tuner that can do a flash might be more difficult, but it's a clean way to get a custom tune.

Both methods are acceptable and work equally well. You don't need to do both just the one you prefer. All of this is just adjusting the engine control mapping. You can also get the ECU flashed to remove things like the top speed limiter or to raise the redline. This is also an ECU Flash but is independent of the mapping part. You can send you ECU to tuners like Powerhouse to get this done after the bike is tuned.

So, for a tune with your new pipe you need either a ECU Flash or a PC5, either one will require a dyno tune. Then if you want some additional features you can get Flashed to adjust the features you want.

HI. Not to sound negitive

Here's the poop:

If you add a full exhaust you should have the bike tuned on a dyno for best results and safety for your engine. There are two ways to actually map the tune into the bike:

First is with a "piggy back" unit like a power commander or Bazzazz or something similar (I recommend the PC5). What these things do is take the stock signals your ECU sends to the engine and alter them by adding fuel. On a dyno, the tuner creates a map that resides in the PC5 (or other) and that adjusts the signals sent to the engine to maintain optimum tune. Most tuners will be familiar with the PC5, it is the most common way bikes are tuned on a Dyno and many dynos are actually from Dynojet, who makes the PC5. PC5's are very reliable and proven but must be installed on the bike (very easy). Note that if you want to run a map from a manufacturer, you'll probably need a PC5 to load the map.

Second way is an ECU flash. This actually goes into the ECU and re-programs it based on the dyno tune. This means you won't need any additional hardware for the bike. Finding a tuner that can do a flash might be more difficult, but it's a clean way to get a custom tune.

Both methods are acceptable and work equally well. You don't need to do both just the one you prefer. All of this is just adjusting the engine control mapping. You can also get the ECU flashed to remove things like the top speed limiter or to raise the redline. This is also an ECU Flash but is independent of the mapping part. You can send you ECU to tuners like Powerhouse to get this done after the bike is tuned.

So, for a tune with your new pipe you need either a ECU Flash or a PC5, either one will require a dyno tune. Then if you want some additional features you can get Flashed to adjust the features you want.

Hi. Not to sound negative, but.... A friend ra

Here's the poop:

If you add a full exhaust you should have the bike tuned on a dyno for best results and safety for your engine. There are two ways to actually map the tune into the bike:

First is with a "piggy back" unit like a power commander or Bazzazz or something similar (I recommend the PC5). What these things do is take the stock signals your ECU sends to the engine and alter them by adding fuel. On a dyno, the tuner creates a map that resides in the PC5 (or other) and that adjusts the signals sent to the engine to maintain optimum tune. Most tuners will be familiar with the PC5, it is the most common way bikes are tuned on a Dyno and many dynos are actually from Dynojet, who makes the PC5. PC5's are very reliable and proven but must be installed on the bike (very easy). Note that if you want to run a map from a manufacturer, you'll probably need a PC5 to load the map.

Second way is an ECU flash. This actually goes into the ECU and re-programs it based on the dyno tune. This means you won't need any additional hardware for the bike. Finding a tuner that can do a flash might be more difficult, but it's a clean way to get a custom tune.

Both methods are acceptable and work equally well. You don't need to do both just the one you prefer. All of this is just adjusting the engine control mapping. You can also get the ECU flashed to remove things like the top speed limiter or to raise the redline. This is also an ECU Flash but is independent of the mapping part. You can send you ECU to tuners like Powerhouse to get this done after the bike is tuned.

So, for a tune with your new pipe you need either a ECU Flash or a PC5, either one will require a dyno tune. Then if you want some additional features you can get Flashed to adjust the features you want.

Hi. Not to sound negative, but----- A friend raced a stock class. the bike was pushed to the max. He holed #2 or #3 piston ran lean #2&3 run hotter. I spent Sat night putting a new piston in it. You may never have anything go bad, but it can do it right that is the only way.

Carbs and ECU's are to different animals right?

Hi. I have been around bikes for 54 yrs. A frie

Carbs and ECU's are to different animals right?

Hi. I have been around motors for over 55 yrs. A friend ran a stock class, ran the bike to the max. put a hole in # 2 or 3 piston. . I worked sat night on the motor and carbs used a drill and some washers . We ran Sunday did not win but did not put a hole in the piston, You may never push it to the max and be fine. If you run lean you can hurt the motor!