The role of the site admins moderating

[captain]

Generally we police ourselves pretty well and weed out those that are most offensive.

I admit I have sent PMs to the Admin only to advise them there could be an issue to watch for.

I believe extremists should not be given a platform from which to launch their hatred.

Here we go again, your definition of "Extremist" and their hatred... I try to balance freedom of speech with common sense..

Just because you disagree with it doesn't make it hate...

 

[TallTom]

Generally we police ourselves pretty well and weed out those that are most offensive.

I admit I have sent PMs to the Admin only to advise them there could be an issue to watch for.

I believe extremists should not be given a platform from which to launch their hatred.

Extremist become extremist because they aren't corrected before they become extreme. I'll use Ali as an example. He had a style of pressing the limits. The more he got away with the more extreme he became. At some point he crossed some line and was banned. Again it came way to late in my opinion. But ignoring him was effective for me until he eventually crossed some unknown line and was gone. I didn't even know he was until it came up on a thread. I get the whole freedom of speech notion. But there are rules that are posted here about member conduct as well.

 

[captain]

And that's fair. You send an IM when you feel it's needed. I see the same people doing or saying the same offensive things with apparent impunity.

We don't know if anything productive comes from reporting. We don't know how the whole process works. Anything I've ever reported has never even been acknowledged by anyone from the board. Like, "We reviewed and took the following action". Or "We don't feel the report violated any site rules".

Like one mod may get the report and do nothing. The next report goes to a different mod and they take action. All based on a personal view on the report. We never know if reporting really does anything.

I'll use the Brent saga since he's gone. He was a constant abuser to people here. I just blocked the dude after no action was taken on him. He never made it about me, he was generally just abusive to members. I don't even know what he did to no longer be here.

After awhile you just figure the posted rules aren't really enforced. He should have been gone long before it finally happened.

There are two admins these days, JWCFBD (Jim) and myself. Most all of the other admins and mods moved on to other hobbies or just left the site years ago. There are a few admins that I will never remove access from because they were fundamental in the creation of the site when it was at it's peak.

• Omslaw
• Vabusa
• Professor
• JWCFBD
• MC_Mustang

We have had mods in the past but again they moved on to other things and life just took over priorities. We have attempted to replace in recent years with some folks that were still active but it takes a lot of time and to be honest it's a hard job to deal with people and not just hit the ban hammer all day every day. It grinds on you trying to help people when they are morally opposite to you in just about every possible way.

If you report it using the report feature I assure you we look at it.

 

[TallTom]

There are two admins these days, JWCFBD (Jim) and myself. Most all of the other admins and mods moved on to other hobbies or just left the site years ago. There are a few admins that I will never remove access from because they were fundamental in the creation of the site when it was at it's peak.

• Omslaw
• Vabusa
• Professor
• JWCFBD
• MC_Mustang

We have had mods in the past but again they moved on to other things and life just took over priorities. We have attempted to replace in recent years with some folks that were still active but it takes a lot of time and to be honest it's a hard job to deal with people and not just hit the ban hammer all day every day. It grinds on you trying to help people when they are morally opposite to you in just about every possible way.

If you report it using the report feature I assure you we look at it.

I get it Cap. It becomes a job. Takes the enjoyment away.

I had no idea there were only 2.

 

[Bumblebee]

Here we go again, your definition of "Extremist" and their hatred... I try to balance freedom of speech with common sense..

Just because you disagree with it doesn't make it hate...

I'm not talking about disagreeing with their point of view, I'm talking about bonified extremists in this case political extremists rather than the ideologic or religious extremists I have dealt with in the past.

There has been at least one example of this extremism on this site from an individual of whom I notice hasn't been posting for quite some time.

It all boils down to a balance of keeping people posting or closing the site altogether and it must be a very hard decision some days.

 

[Bumblebee]

Extremist become extremist because they aren't corrected before they become extreme. I'll use Ali as an example. He had a style of pressing the limits. The more he got away with the more extreme he became. At some point he crossed some line and was banned. Again it came way to late in my opinion. But ignoring him was effective for me until he eventually crossed some unknown line and was gone. I didn't even know he was until it came up on a thread. I get the whole freedom of speech notion. But there are rules that are posted here about member conduct as well.

Forgive me in advance but that is a poor example of an extremist.

I have dealt with several actual extremists over the years in my former profession and to be honest they are quite frightening to deal with even for me as their ideology is unwavering and nothing short of sending them to meet their God will ever change that.

I have experience with extremists and I have run across at least one on this site and have reported that person. Free speech is fine and dandy, I fought for that, letting an extremists to run free is not what I fought for.

If this person had continued posting, I would have left this site.

 

[jellyrug]

Interesting thread, it almost reminds me of what Elon Musk is facing on his acquisition of Twitter.
I think moderation is one of those disciplines where it is impossible to satisfy everyone.

Personally, I am surprised that I have never been warned on the great org, as I have been outspoken many times and many times the debate turned personal. For me though, it was always an intellectual challenge, nothing more. I enjoyed debating with folks about being factual and rational and those who always have to be correct due to ego often take exception. My biggest weakness is, when I debate with folks who don't like the truth based on physics and rational thoughts, I start having fun with them. Often that does not end well. Sometimes I am wrong, but always regard that as perfectly OK and I change my opinion based on learning new information.

In the end, I always believe none of us, irrespective of our ethnicity, or our values, have the right to judge anyone. We do however have the right to choose who we associate with personally.

The site does not belong to a public corporation, it belongs to a person, who has the right to do as he wishes.

As to Cap's questions, I don't believe there will be a right (correct) or a wrong answer for each of those.

 

[TallTom]

Bee. I think the point is we all have our individual definitions of terms. For some extremist means who's shooting at me in a uniform. Others consider extremist as our current SCOTUS decisions. And in that same vein the extremist that attempt to do harm to a SCOTUS judge are widely accepted as A OK in some people's eyes.

In that light, I was invited to a holiday gathering my neighbor was having. He is retired Army WO4 Special Forces. All of his military buddies were there. I felt honored to be included. We sat around the big fire pit and talked. They all unanimously felt the America they defended for an entire career, is crumbling. They saw the quality of recruits diminish. The quality of our government diminish. Around that pit represented a lot of tactical skill and discipline. Any one of them is a serious force to reckon with. And I was in a group of ten. In some circles on the outside I was in a group of extremist. Simply because they hate our current government. Would these guys act upon their verbal outpourings? I hope not. Any one of them could take many lives acting alone. And they have a lot to lose if they acted on it. I think that is part of what governs sensible people. What would they lose if they acted on their feelings? In this case a lot. They are all well pensioned and have moved on to private sector well paid positions.

Extremist typically can't moderate themselves and largely are extremist have nothing to lose except an ideology. They come here because nobody else listens to them anywhere else.

 

[jellyrug]

Bee. I think the point is we all have our individual definitions of terms. For some extremist means who's shooting at me in a uniform. Others consider extremist as our current SCOTUS decisions. And in that same vein the extremist that attempt to do harm to a SCOTUS judge are widely accepted as A OK in some people's eyes.

In that light, I was invited to a holiday gathering my neighbor was having. He is retired Army WO4 Special Forces. All of his military buddies were there. I felt honored to be included. We sat around the big fire pit and talked. They all unanimously felt the America they defended for an entire career, is crumbling. They saw the quality of recruits diminish. The quality of our government diminish. Around that pit represented a lot of tactical skill and discipline. Any one of them is a serious force to reckon with. And I was in a group of ten. In some circles on the outside I was in a group of extremist. Simply because they hate our current government. Would these guys act upon their verbal outpourings? I hope not. Any one of them could take many lives acting alone. And they have a lot to lose if they acted on it. I think that is part of what governs sensible people. What would they lose if they acted on their feelings? In this case a lot. They are all well pensioned and have moved on to private sector well paid positions.

Extremist typically can't moderate themselves and largely are extremist have nothing to lose except an ideology. They come here because nobody else listens to them anywhere else.

Definition of an Extremist: A concept used to describe religious, social or political belief systems that exist substantially outside of belief systems more broadly accepted in society

Interesting thought. In my circle of friends, a mostly retirement community, everyone thinks I am an extremist because I ride a Hayabusa and at some point must break all State and Federal laws when I ride it on public roads.

LOL, maybe that is why I come here, because I can't talk to them about my Busa. So Tall Tom, you must be absolutely correct with your last sentence.

 

[greg3852]

I find it personally funny that we are on such a small site with this many people being “offended”.

I personally have people in this thread blocked. It’s easy.

I also find it funny to make everything about race. Everything is racist to people. It’s 2022. Some people are just jerks. Doesn’t matter their color. Also we used to have a saying. Everything is a nail to a hammer. If all you look for is racists you will find them in every single person if you look hard enough. It’s tiresome. That’s why it has lost its effect. Call me racist I don’t care. That’s an excuse now for poor behavior or ways. Let go of some anger or perceived slight and you’ll live a much happier life.

If you’re offended walk away and man up. No one is personally attacking each other on here. World isn’t the place I was born into. I was raised to work hard, be a man, have integrity etc. not to worry about my feelings on an online site with people I’ve never met. Jesus.

 

[TallTom]

The site does not belong to a public corporation, it belongs to a person, who has the right to do as he wishes.

This is the sticking point. The current winds are blowing in the direction of "We will tell a private business how they will conduct itself now.

The baker who didn't want to provide a LGBTQ themed cake was national news as a negative private America. Yet when a restaurant owner did not want to seat a Republican White House staff member it was portrayed as a positive private America.

The idea of a private business being run as that owner sees fit is being stripped away. Elon Musk is the current target because he is tearing down a left leaning social media platform. It's his company. Get over it.

 

[hayabuser]

Being offended is a failing of the person offended, and not the person doing the so-called offending. If you're so weak that words hurt you, you have personal issues... and the internet might not be the place for you.

Unlike many in society today, I was taught very young by my parents that "Sticks and stones may break my bones but names can never hurt me."... and that remains with me.

People are so quick to throw out labels like "racist", "Nazi" and "fascist" that they've lost all meaning. No one cares anymore.

 

[jellyrug]

This is the sticking point. The current winds are blowing in the direction of "We will tell a private business how they will conduct itself now.

The baker who didn't want to provide a LGBTQ themed cake was national news as a negative private America. Yet when a restaurant owner did not want to seat a Republican White House staff member it was portrayed as a positive private America.

The idea of a private business being run as that owner sees fit is being stripped away. Elon Musk is the current target because he is tearing down a left leaning social media platform. It's his company. Get over it.

Federal law in the US states that businesses have a right to refuse service to anyone, unless it is discriminating against a particular class under federal, state, or local law.

Not sure that has anything to do with a bike forum?

 

[fallenarch]

Good to see you posting up....

But let me fire this back at you... Everything you just posted about Britney Griner is your opinion and speculation. Not that it's right or wrong, another opinion based on your experience, knowledge research and insights.

Actually not true. I stated that:

1. Britney was only holding a spent Vape cartridge, which is a reported fact.
2. I stated that she was charged with trafficking (impossible to do with a single spent vape cartridge), which is a reported fact.
3. I stated it was not advisable to plead not guilty in a Russian court, also a fact.
4. I stated that many athletes use pot as a pain killer, I did not say this was the case for Britney, but she has also declared this.

I decided not to post the rest of this post, haha. All I'll say is that I don't generally report anything.

 

[TallTom]

Federal law in the US states that businesses have a right to refuse service to anyone, unless it is discriminating against a particular class under federal, state, or local law.

Not sure that has anything to do with a bike forum?

Because Cap will be held liable for the content of this site due to new laws being considered. Doesn't matter if it's a motorcycle forum.

 

[jellyrug]

Because Cap will be held liable for the content of this site due to new laws being considered. Doesn't matter if it's a motorcycle forum.

Let's look at this rationally and practically:


1.) How would anyone know what particular class a person belongs to if the person is banned from the forum?
2.) How will unacceptable posts be linked to a particular class the poster belongs to?
3.) Are you perhaps confusing two guys holding hands and kissing walking into a restaurant with an internet forum?
4.) Could you link an example on this entire site, where someone has been banned due to belonging to a particular class?

 

[Bumblebee]

Bee. I think the point is we all have our individual definitions of terms. For some extremist means who's shooting at me in a uniform. Others consider extremist as our current SCOTUS decisions. And in that same vein the extremist that attempt to do harm to a SCOTUS judge are widely accepted as A OK in some people's eyes.

In that light, I was invited to a holiday gathering my neighbor was having. He is retired Army WO4 Special Forces. All of his military buddies were there. I felt honored to be included. We sat around the big fire pit and talked. They all unanimously felt the America they defended for an entire career, is crumbling. They saw the quality of recruits diminish. The quality of our government diminish. Around that pit represented a lot of tactical skill and discipline. Any one of them is a serious force to reckon with. And I was in a group of ten. In some circles on the outside I was in a group of extremist. Simply because they hate our current government. Would these guys act upon their verbal outpourings? I hope not. Any one of them could take many lives acting alone. And they have a lot to lose if they acted on it. I think that is part of what governs sensible people. What would they lose if they acted on their feelings? In this case a lot. They are all well pensioned and have moved on to private sector well paid positions.

Extremist typically can't moderate themselves and largely are extremist have nothing to lose except an ideology. They come here because nobody else listens to them anywhere else.

I'm not a weak kneed person who worships the sun in my underwear and falls prey to trends.....I can understand the internet is much different than real life but in one particular case on this forum, I (and we) ran into an ideologic extremist who by very definition isn't the sort of person I personally would want to interact with in any sense.

Political, ideological and religious extremists are all classified in the same breath, there are different levels of extremism, I have encountered the worst of the worst before. Extremism is a cancer that spreads and destroys...even on a forum such as this.

I am but one small voice in the millions of others and carry very little weight, of this I am well aware...

In my former profession, politics were irrelevant to me as I had a job to do and it didn't matter who sent me to do it. Much like now, although I am not really happy with the state of affairs within my and other countries, life for me will trudge forward as there is very little to be done other than to weather the storm as others before have had to.

 

[Bumblebee]

Being offended is a failing of the person offended, and not the person doing the so-called offending. If you're so weak that words hurt you, you have personal issues... and the internet might not be the place for you.

Unlike many in society today, I was taught very young by my parents that "Sticks and stones may break my bones but names can never hurt me."... and that remains with me.

People are so quick to throw out labels like "racist", "Nazi" and "fascist" that they've lost all meaning. No one cares anymore.

How many harassment courses have you taken? With your opening statement I'd say not many.

Like all places, the internet and forums on them are supposed to be welcoming places for people of all walks to visit and interact without being isolated or targeted.

Words hurt, it's easy to say they don't but they do, the old adage of "sticks and stones" worked on a school playground in kindergarten but in the real world, people get killed over words.

 

[Bumblebee]

I know for one, I'd be hard pressed to own and operate a site such as this and try to keep everyone happy and the site operating.

My hat's off to @captain for even doing this...at times I'm certain it would be far easier to flip the "off" switch.

This is my sole social media source and I seem to be on here quite a bit...maybe too much some times but I enjoy the interaction with people on here-even when we disagree we still carry ourselves with dignity (most of the time).

 

[jellyrug]

How many harassment courses have you taken? With your opening statement I'd say not many.

Like all places, the internet and forums on them are supposed to be welcoming places for people of all walks to visit and interact without being isolated or targeted.

Words hurt, it's easy to say they don't but they do, the old adage of "sticks and stones" worked on a school playground in kindergarten but in the real world, people get killed over words.

Bee, your first sentence, and the part following the question mark are words which could hurt someone with pride. And in the last sentence you kind of indicate disapproval of words which hurt?