Easy..neither one commits murder...
Should guns be banned?
- Thread starter GsxrBots
- Start date
Easy..neither one commits murder...
Our Sheriff was on the radio this afternoon discussing this whole situation. He is in favor of a plan to train teachers in a program similar to the department's reserve officers. Of course it would be on a volunteer basis, and teachers would not be forced into gun training. Several members of my family are or have been teachers, and I think this is a great idea. Aside from defensive purposes, it could also present an opportunity for more children to be regularly exposed to firearms at a younger age. Hopefully they could learn to respect them and better understand the position they should hold in our society.
So, I gotta ask the question: If this HAD been a Islamic Jihadist who, screaming "allah akbar", ran into the same school and did the same thing, would these same liberals be screaming and demanding "take away the guns!" or "arm somebody to protect our kids!"
Would this same President get on National Television and blame it on a Youtube video?
Would this same President get on National Television and blame it on a Youtube video?
gueroaero
Registered
He would say that whatever it was, it was certainly NOT an act of terror by a terrorist.
How do I know? Because; Nadal Hasan.
lankeeyankee
Banned
im speaking from experience. what are you speaking from?
yea, where I work 90% of all violent felonies involve guns. Car jackings, Robberies with injuries (shot), drive-bye shootings, Home Invasions (shot), etc.... VIOLENT means guns. not knives, or bats or sticks. GUNS.
a patrol briefing? so now ur cojack?those are real statistics speaking from real experience. not some internet link you researched....
Sounds like you need to move your career to the South where most carry guns in there car and on them.. You live and work where? Connecticut? Dont they have some of the strictest gun laws up there? How is that gun control working for your state? Not many car jackings here in the Good Ol Boy town I live in where most have guns in there car.. And ya know what not much road rage goes on here.. I can say this due to I grew up and lived in New Jersey which also has similiar gun laws to Conn.. Ya know what New Jersey had one of the highest car jackings in the country.. Remember the movie Jersey Drive? That was a movie based on New Jersey Car Jackings... Your not making valild points and almost sounds as you live in some fantasy world with some of your quotes your making.. "its proven more guns. more gun crimes" Explain to me how Switzerland has one of the lowest gun crimes in the world and most people carry guns and there goverment issues them ammunition and are required to goto a shooting range.. When your done spin doctoring that one explain to me how the city of Kennesaw GA has lowered there crime rate buy making it mandatory that home owners must own a firearm? Hmmmmmm please help me here your quotes seem as sharp as a pillow
jphilipson
Registered
SO - I never "REALLY" answered the actual question here - here goes.
Should guns be banned? On the day this was asked, I was almost certain it was a YES. But the libertarian in me won over the liberal in me. After a lot of thinking time, I don't think the answer is as simple as that. An outright ban on guns is simply not constitutional, and the reality is that guns are a huge part of the way of life for some Americans. While in my life, having a gun or not is no big deal, someone who lives in the bush in Alaska might disagree. And sadly, I don't think banning guns is going to stop children from getting killed. As long as the culture of violence in this country persists, we are just going to have to deal with the repercussions.
That said - I think those of you that choose to keep guns, really need to take a long hard look at yourselves, and ask if you're doing all that you can to ensure that your guns will never be used to harm another person. I think masterblaster summed that up well here - https://www.hayabusa.org/forum/random-thoughts/170192-public-service-post-new-gun-owners.html. The person who owned the guns used in the latest school shooting was obviously not responsible. I have to wonder how many kids would have not died that day had her guns been secured.
Some things I will most likely never agree with the majority of folks here on, such as why anyone needs an assault weapon. My definition of an assault weapon is one who's sole purpose is killing. You can mince words all day long, but I think everyone here knows what it means.
Should guns be banned? On the day this was asked, I was almost certain it was a YES. But the libertarian in me won over the liberal in me. After a lot of thinking time, I don't think the answer is as simple as that. An outright ban on guns is simply not constitutional, and the reality is that guns are a huge part of the way of life for some Americans. While in my life, having a gun or not is no big deal, someone who lives in the bush in Alaska might disagree. And sadly, I don't think banning guns is going to stop children from getting killed. As long as the culture of violence in this country persists, we are just going to have to deal with the repercussions.
That said - I think those of you that choose to keep guns, really need to take a long hard look at yourselves, and ask if you're doing all that you can to ensure that your guns will never be used to harm another person. I think masterblaster summed that up well here - https://www.hayabusa.org/forum/random-thoughts/170192-public-service-post-new-gun-owners.html. The person who owned the guns used in the latest school shooting was obviously not responsible. I have to wonder how many kids would have not died that day had her guns been secured.
Some things I will most likely never agree with the majority of folks here on, such as why anyone needs an assault weapon. My definition of an assault weapon is one who's sole purpose is killing. You can mince words all day long, but I think everyone here knows what it means.
mestona
Registered
Protocol states we don't go in until the police declare the scene safe, but a lot of times, we just respond via dispatch to a scene. We don't always know what we are getting into until on scene, and we have rolled up then been told to GTFO by the police because the suspect(s) were still unaccounted for. I haven't been ambushed but I have a friend who has been, arrived on scene and his 'bus was shot at.
ETA: biggest problem is waiting for the scene to be declared, and having people inside who are bleeding in the mean time
Edit 2: our staging distance is 1/4 mile
great for testing those 23 second ambulances...
Well I'm not going to argue over semantics... I will just consider this one a win... Now who's next? Willie oh Willie where are you...
i posted on facebook and i know some of you read it. ill post it here. this is purely my own thought of how to solve the problems since it is two fold. 1 the psychology problems in this country and mental health issues 2. gun free zones are targets. duh!! now lets combine a solution into the mix. one part dealing with the psychology of why these dumb kids are doing this and two an measure of defense that most can nod at.
OMG i figured out how to stop gun killing sprees in schools!! arm and train faculty with tazers ( kind that shoot currently 35 ft is available for distance), incapacitates shooter ( instead of what they want , suicide by own hands or police), deport them to Guantanamo bay to be detained indefinitely, without lawyer, without trial as a terrorist ( domestic) and tortured ( water boarding ect)!!! Its legal National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2012 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and laws on books to allow this!!
take away their "glorified death" and insert detainment and life long imprisonment and torture...show me a kid willing to take THAT chance no matter how disturbed they are. also beef up security in the schools.
OMG i figured out how to stop gun killing sprees in schools!! arm and train faculty with tazers ( kind that shoot currently 35 ft is available for distance), incapacitates shooter ( instead of what they want , suicide by own hands or police), deport them to Guantanamo bay to be detained indefinitely, without lawyer, without trial as a terrorist ( domestic) and tortured ( water boarding ect)!!! Its legal National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2012 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and laws on books to allow this!!
take away their "glorified death" and insert detainment and life long imprisonment and torture...show me a kid willing to take THAT chance no matter how disturbed they are. also beef up security in the schools.
Wow! Called out by the Captain. I am somebody! I think the post by jphilipson is pretty much where I ended up on the issue frankly. I will say that the constitution gives you the right to have a weapon it does not really say how you can use it. And SCOTUS agreed with this as they said in the decision (I believe, didn't google it) the decision did not make gun control unconstitutional, only the complete prohibition of guns. I would actually go a bit further than jphilipson, I think people in bad neighborhoods might need a gun, or people who experience natural disasters like Florida Hurricanes or tornado alley. And finally those who fear society breaking down are not totally crazy IMHO, as this is a real possibility on a limited scale. But to the loyal gun owners out there I will say this again: You need to help shape new gun laws or the people who are doing it will try to make gun ownership impossible. The demographics are against you, and that requires a different tactic than shoot first, I'm a man bull headedness. I also wish Obama would leave this one alone. I think nothing will consolidate the Republican base than taking away gun rights and it will make everything harder.
Tiller
Registered
Another WIN!!!!
Willie you are going to have a blast at the range at the spring bash. Matter of fact, you may just have to own a gun after that
Willie I will agree that something has to be done but it doesn't start with the tool, it starts with the user... Instead of taking firearms from good people let's all agree that there are just some folks that should not own a gun and there are folks that have them now that will use them in a crime.
So we agree on that point..... Now is the answer really to try and stop the flow of guns that are so numerous in the country already? I liken this to making a comment that drunk drivers are a problem so a ban on some trucks is put into place.. Is banning a model of truck really going to stop drunk drivers, of course not. This is the point that knowledgable experienced folks are trying to get across. Make no mistake that the liberal society does not hold exclusive hatred for the cowardly acts committed almost a week ago. We all are saddened that we are even required to have this discussion. I believe that the outcry that you hear from the gun folks is simple... Its not the gun... As much as we hear about equality and rights I will be the one to say it first.. EVERYONE IS NOT EQUAL! While they may be created equal or start from a level playing field some people should not have a drivers license, own a gun or have kids.... Of course you will never get folks to sign up for limiting kids but it's true and we all know it. Until the country as a whole comes to a decision that action needs to be made at the human level and not the tool level you will not see change I am saddened to report. We are going through the motions of change just so we can say that we did something as a country for an event that never should have happened in the first place. Just don't get your hopes up that this bloodshed is going to stop... Be prepared for the tool to change....
Let me say that while we may not agree on really most issues I think that we both agree that something needs to be done, you believe its the tool, I believe its the user.. In the end we want the same things...
cap
masterblaster
Registered
Unless he just sucks at shooting.
Another WIN!!!!
Willie you are going to have a blast at the range at the spring bash. Matter of fact, you may just have to own a gun after that
mysql
Registered
To get around all the bull****, simply change the context of the situation and put it in the perspective of the individual:
If you feel strongly that no-gun-zones are good, then put up a big sign in your front lawn with the words "THIS HOUSE IS A GUN-FREE ZONE"
Of course few will do it. They know this encourages vandals, theft, home invasions, etc. Yet they will proudly proclaim that gun free zones are the best thing EVER for schools, and deny that it makes them a more attractive target.
If you feel strongly that no-gun-zones are good, then put up a big sign in your front lawn with the words "THIS HOUSE IS A GUN-FREE ZONE"
Of course few will do it. They know this encourages vandals, theft, home invasions, etc. Yet they will proudly proclaim that gun free zones are the best thing EVER for schools, and deny that it makes them a more attractive target.
For me this issue needs to be looked upon in a different way. IMHO, it isnt the tool that is problem. The problem was the user. We need to look at how, why, and what we can we do to help reduce a user from doing this again no matter what was used to cause the destruction they caused. It bothers me that most of this starts at home, and we all have a responsibilty as parents and as children to know right from wrong and to reinforce that thinking. We have the responsibilty as a U.S. citzen to follow the laws and rules we live under no matter if we do or dont like our leader or the government. I think most Americans dont have the same pride, value, care, and work ethics that we had years ago. It doesnt help with the media usually making bad news even more negative then it should be too. Again it starts at home with you, and then your family, and then with friends, and then at work, etc.... I am a soon to be father, and this issue concerns me even more, because I have a new life to mold, to teach, to shape, to watch, and show a way of life too. No matter how good or bad I do this new person can still do what ever, when ever, and however they want. But its my responsibilty to do the best I can, and hope I surround this person with other people that maybe able to reach her if I cant, and tell me if I got a problem. Either way I miss the days of old, where we respect our elders, our parents, our friends, and each other as Americans. It start at home!
Having that child changes/shapes your opinions a LOT Earlybird.
Get this, some dumbazz went walking down the mall nearby here yesterday with a t-shirt on saying "Did your Assault Rifle kill a Kindergartner today?"...they tosses his azz out of the mall - lucky I didn't see him first that was totally insensitive to EVERYBODY.
Get this, some dumbazz went walking down the mall nearby here yesterday with a t-shirt on saying "Did your Assault Rifle kill a Kindergartner today?"...they tosses his azz out of the mall - lucky I didn't see him first that was totally insensitive to EVERYBODY.
What do you guys say to the fact that mental illness is not a constant thing. I perfectly normal person can be changed or pushed over the edge. We see that happening every day to people. There is no way to test for this.
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