I'm glad it worked out for another skeptic, I was too. Now there's proof I'm not losing it
Removed Secondary Butteryflys
- Thread starter sixpack577
- Start date
Dozerdriver
Registered
I have been asking about this for awhile... will have to give it a shot too.
mestona
Registered
Maybe Greg will chime in with what he found, I think it was when he was testing exhausts when the first 08's came out and he found something detrimental when removing the secondaries. I can't for the life of me remember what it was. I don't know for sure but I think the bike dropped a few ft/lb down low...
jefro
Registered
Brocks' says don't do it on Suzukis'-claims removing them messes up drivability on the street and shows no improvement at the track.
On the other hand, those that are into ECU Editor are learning more everyday about the STP(Secondary Throttle Plate) function and have discovered there's a slower opening rate in second and third gears only. Those that have flashed the ecu to run the same STP maps in all gears have reported increased bottom end in 2nd and 3rd.
One thing for sure, I would be very leary of yanking them without putting it on a dyno or logging afr to be sure the tune is safe with them out.
On the other hand, those that are into ECU Editor are learning more everyday about the STP(Secondary Throttle Plate) function and have discovered there's a slower opening rate in second and third gears only. Those that have flashed the ecu to run the same STP maps in all gears have reported increased bottom end in 2nd and 3rd.
One thing for sure, I would be very leary of yanking them without putting it on a dyno or logging afr to be sure the tune is safe with them out.
jefro
Registered
Here's the thread on it: STP - ECU hacking
Still in the experimental stage but shows alot of promise. Also looks like traction control(a basic rate control mainly for launching) may be right around the corner
peanutrobber
Registered
I just did 358 miles today with no drivability issues.
"WATTizz the difference between all them gears is A-Bees and C clamp pit, she struck dem dare gold! Da, no, I think you struck "A FASTER AIR EVENT!"
Flo: Hold On Cowboy, not so fast.
Flies: I thought you just said, fast?
Flo: A-B-C Don't you get it? Faster flapper is the clap on clap off.
Flies: WATT?
Flo: That is what I said. Watt someone is saying on the dyno curve is some B switch is faster flying than an A switch ear roo.
Flies: You're confusing me.
Flo: Holdon, Cowboy, since 1999, the air flapper design was the air box flapper is the same fly that is going to be zipped down, you watch that slapping you are aboutto receive.
Flies: You mean?
Flo: Fast azz a jet steer, you better watch out now, Missteer.
Flies: And it's all over?
Flo: No, now you go with the flow.
Flies: WOT?
Flo:W means, get rid of them if you want some event to happen faster!
Fly: Yeah, Buttwattsay tre?
Flo: Fluck UP YOU, YOU!
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killjester
Registered
I just removed mine it took maby 10 minuets. Just a FYI you do not need to remove the entire air box. Just the lid. Haven't had a chance to ride it yet. Probably tomorrow.
jefro
Registered
- ZX-14 DonFlyDone.wmv[/url]
"WATTizz the difference between all them gears is A-Bees and C clamp pit, she struck dem dare gold! Da, no, I think you struck "A FASTER AIR EVENT!"
Flo: Hold On Cowboy, not so fast.
Flies: I thought you just said, fast?
Flo: A-B-C Don't you get it? Faster flapper is the clap on clap off.
Flies: WATT?
Flo: That is what I said. Watt someone is saying on the dyno curve is some B switch is faster flying than an A switch ear roo.
Flies: You're confusing me.
Flo: Holdon, Cowboy, since 1999, the air flapper design was the air box flapper is the same fly that is going to be zipped down, you watch that slapping you are aboutto receive.
Flies: You mean?
Flo: Fast azz a jet steer, you better watch out now, Missteer.
Flies: And it's all over?
Flo: No, now you go with the flow.
Flies: WOT?
Flo:W means, get rid of them if you want some event to happen faster!
Fly: Yeah, Buttwattsay tre?
Flo: Fluck UP YOU, YOU!
wow.............................................I'll guess I'll attempt to reply.
The 14 benefits greatly from secondary fly removal because the ecu keeps 'em from opening until way too late for good power. Also, Suzukis' secondary injector(kaw only uses one) is aimed right at the secondary throttle plate-most likely for better atomization. With ecu editor it is now possible to change the ratio of primary fuel to secondary fuel(normally 20% pri/80% sec at wfo. Some have tried changing it to 50/50 and saw a slight loss in topend on the dyno and the track. So it is very possible that the removal of the restriction of the flies is offset by poorer atomization of the sec. injectors shot. Just something to think about before yanking 'em.
Also, more importantly, kaws with the flys pulled must be remapped or they'll run way lean. All you guys pulling them, have you checked your afr? If not it could get real expensive
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- ZX-14 DonFlyDone.wmv[/url]
"WATTizz the difference between all them gears is A-Bees and C clamp pit, she struck dem dare gold! Da, no, I think you struck "A FASTER AIR EVENT!"
Flo: Hold On Cowboy, not so fast.
Flies: I thought you just said, fast?
Flo: A-B-C Don't you get it? Faster flapper is the clap on clap off.
Flies: WATT?
Flo: That is what I said. Watt someone is saying on the dyno curve is some B switch is faster flying than an A switch ear roo.
Flies: You're confusing me.
Flo: Holdon, Cowboy, since 1999, the air flapper design was the air box flapper is the same fly that is going to be zipped down, you watch that slapping you are aboutto receive.
Flies: You mean?
Flo: Fast azz a jet steer, you better watch out now, Missteer.
Flies: And it's all over?
Flo: No, now you go with the flow.
Flies: WOT?
Flo:W means, get rid of them if you want some event to happen faster!
Fly: Yeah, Buttwattsay tre?
Flo: Fluck UP YOU, YOU!
guess posting videos of talking dildo's doesnt violate the
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Dozerdriver
Registered
- ZX-14 DonFlyDone.wmv[/url]
"WATTizz the difference between all them gears is A-Bees and C clamp pit, she struck dem dare gold! Da, no, I think you struck "A FASTER AIR EVENT!"
Flo: Hold On Cowboy, not so fast.
Flies: I thought you just said, fast?
Flo: A-B-C Don't you get it? Faster flapper is the clap on clap off.
Flies: WATT?
Flo: That is what I said. Watt someone is saying on the dyno curve is some B switch is faster flying than an A switch ear roo.
Flies: You're confusing me.
Flo: Holdon, Cowboy, since 1999, the air flapper design was the air box flapper is the same fly that is going to be zipped down, you watch that slapping you are aboutto receive.
Flies: You mean?
Flo: Fast azz a jet steer, you better watch out now, Missteer.
Flies: And it's all over?
Flo: No, now you go with the flow.
Flies: WOT?
Flo:W means, get rid of them if you want some event to happen faster!
Fly: Yeah, Buttwattsay tre?
Flo: Fluck UP YOU, YOU!
Not this stuff again..
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Also, more importantly, kaws with the flys pulled must be remapped or they'll run way lean. All you guys pulling them, have you checked your afr? If not it could get real expensive
1+
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STP-ECU Hacking? I skimmed through the abstract. It says the gas puddles, give me that atomization is a lag time at the fuel feed factored in. You have to figure too, the abstract is not going to read in the WOT-WATT, but more the math can dance to the step if you grasp that concept. I'll catch what little abstract they will run you around with. They hide a lot of the good stuff not needed for 'abstract.' This is where you find the real steps if you are keen to what they are saying.
WOT my azzfactor says is HP at the seat of the pants tell me I can't tell? I try to be constant at the throttle apply and like removing the flies, tell me you could not tell the difference, I rest my case.
LEAN FACTOR: Look, did you not read all that intake air sucking on the pre-lag it's going to run the same if the intake air sensor can sense a WOT. Pre-lag means lean entry. Thus the lag time, right?
Are you going to tell me your wrist is faster than some compute box ready with the vacuum/water/WOThrottle %/Crank senses 360° every single degree is pick an RPM and did not the FI clear that signal with the correct fuel?
Slow me the lean? I use your abstract against you, remember. We learning here or confusing more air/same air factor in the constant/? / < Linear still got you to 12,000 rpm is that constant.
If you add a PC to the bike, you richen up the mix. My bike runs flat out fat. Here's WOT I did: I closed the air screws off to correct the lean. 12K on the same sub throttle system as the Busa, and did I not say, "The Bike Generic?" Show me my leaned out burned out bike.
???Don't matter what bike we are talking about you start talking to me. Joe Generic here is do the same thing and she is slow and smooth. Mess with the air screws and you bet you are going to get screwed lean is mean...
All that action on the bike and not one pissea am I using to even cause the bike to run like a cooked goose is that thing is too slow and fat as it is. See that WB meter hug in the 11:1's? It should have settled in the 12/13 band, butt, "No one listens to Turtle."Yeah? No!
Not this stuff again..
You're gonna miss me!I'll save you the trouble is use is on year own!
and GOODBYE!
Guys I NEVER claimed this would increase or decrease hp, and I said it may lose a few. I'm a good bike/car mechanic, but have never claimed to be a pro tuner.
I can see no way this will damage anything. I'm not sure, but it may however affect emissions for you CA guys.
On a STOCK or bolt on gen2 you will see a big improvement in thottle respnse in 1st, 2nd gear. The bike may be slower on top, I cannot say, I have done no official testing. Only the seat of the pants feel. I am a knee dragger, and even more so, a wheelie rider. It is obvious to me that the Busa now easily throttles the front up in 1st and 2nd, much more so than before,( and I was very skeptical of this mod). There is no doubt to me it worked very well, and this is why I shared this with everyone.
As threads get longer, most of us don't read them all, I just wanted to let everyone know I'm not claiming a hp miracle or trying to mislead anyone. Simply just that if you like to ride wheelies, or want a little more response in low gears, give it a try. And as with any mod, a dyno tune is always your best bet for optimum results.
I can see no way this will damage anything. I'm not sure, but it may however affect emissions for you CA guys.
On a STOCK or bolt on gen2 you will see a big improvement in thottle respnse in 1st, 2nd gear. The bike may be slower on top, I cannot say, I have done no official testing. Only the seat of the pants feel. I am a knee dragger, and even more so, a wheelie rider. It is obvious to me that the Busa now easily throttles the front up in 1st and 2nd, much more so than before,( and I was very skeptical of this mod). There is no doubt to me it worked very well, and this is why I shared this with everyone.
As threads get longer, most of us don't read them all, I just wanted to let everyone know I'm not claiming a hp miracle or trying to mislead anyone. Simply just that if you like to ride wheelies, or want a little more response in low gears, give it a try. And as with any mod, a dyno tune is always your best bet for optimum results.
if you are reflashing, you can remap the STPS pretty easily so as to not have to remove them, i would recommend looking at the tune, if there really is anything to be gained (I dont honestly know, but dont think so) it should be tuned for.
My 08 Turbo bike with very low boost (195 hp) it made no difference with stock STP mapping or cranking them wide open on back to back dyno pulls.
I have also messed around with 3rd gear roll ons with 6 psi of boost both with 3rd gear stp mapping (much lazier than 1,4,5,6 gears) vs 1,4,5,6 gear mapping, and i can't see much of any increase in spool time even though STPS dont get fully open for another 2000 rpm 3rd gear vs 1,4,5,6
My 08 Turbo bike with very low boost (195 hp) it made no difference with stock STP mapping or cranking them wide open on back to back dyno pulls.
I have also messed around with 3rd gear roll ons with 6 psi of boost both with 3rd gear stp mapping (much lazier than 1,4,5,6 gears) vs 1,4,5,6 gear mapping, and i can't see much of any increase in spool time even though STPS dont get fully open for another 2000 rpm 3rd gear vs 1,4,5,6
1+
______________________________________________
STP-ECU Hacking? I skimmed through the abstract. It says the gas puddles, give me that atomization is a lag time at the fuel feed factored in. You have to figure too, the abstract is not going to read in the WOT-WATT, but more the math can dance to the step if you grasp that concept. I'll catch what little abstract they will run you around with. They hide a lot of the good stuff not needed for 'abstract.' This is where you find the real steps if you are keen to what they are saying.
WOT my azzfactor says is HP at the seat of the pants tell me I can't tell? I try to be constant at the throttle apply and like removing the flies, tell me you could not tell the difference, I rest my case.
LEAN FACTOR: Look, did you not read all that intake air sucking on the pre-lag it's going to run the same if the intake air sensor can sense a WOT. Pre-lag means lean entry. Thus the lag time, right?
Are you going to tell me your wrist is faster than some compute box ready with the vacuum/water/WOThrottle %/Crank senses 360° every single degree is pick an RPM and did not the FI clear that signal with the correct fuel?
Slow me the lean? I use your abstract against you, remember. We learning here or confusing more air/same air factor in the constant/? / < Linear still got you to 12,000 rpm is that constant.
If you add a PC to the bike, you richen up the mix. My bike runs flat out fat. Here's WOT I did: I closed the air screws off to correct the lean. 12K on the same sub throttle system as the Busa, and did I not say, "The Bike Generic?" Show me my leaned out burned out bike.
Don't matter what bike we are talking about you start talking to me. Joe Generic here is do the same thing and she is slow and smooth. Mess with the air screws and you bet you are going to get screwed lean is mean...
Yeah? No!
2busa I have read posts from you that made total sense although rare .
But 99 percent of them are same as above.....jibberish !
How you think this up or honestly believe it makes sense is beyond me !
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