Rant from a Machinist

[vincent]

couple drops of hydraulic fluid in his morning coffee will solve your problems as he will not be able to do anything worthwhile working there, use up all his sick leave and have to wonder what he did to cause his bowels to act up like he drank 10 gallons of tijuauna water in under 2 minutes.
Other than that just find a way to document what is going on since if he is bothering you and finds out that you are trying to deal with him legally he will be capable of intimidating the other employees so that they will not stand with you. Bring all this up to a lawyer (aside from the hydraulic fluid, don't get caught doing that) and do whats gotta get done.

 

[vinnycr2]

(mzrsq @ Oct. 24 2006,23:27) Not meaning to bash, I just run into to many of you old school guys who truely have no idea what the market is and the life expectancy of the average machine shop today. Suck it up and be thankful you have a job, because there's 1000's of unemployed machinists out there that would love to have your job, running two machines for far less pay and benifits than you're recieving.

Call me old school if you will but this is my point as to this country going to hell with stagnant wages. Be thankful I have a job is a bullshit statement. I do my job well and who I work for should be as thankful to have me as I am to have a job. I'm there when they need me and don't go home when I get a crap job like most of the ass wipes do and still produce quality work no matter what! I may miss 2 or 3 days of work a year aside from vacation.

Pay me what I'm worth to run 2 machines and I'll gladly do it. Keep my pay the same for 6 + years and you can let the ass wipes who put on a good show do it and maintain a high rework rate and a fair scrap rate. The majority of the guys I work with feel the same and also have not seen a raise like me.

If you can't pay a man a bit extra to do more like run 2 machines you and all who think like you don't deserve skilled people.

Come here to New England and try and find a few hundred machinsts. I don't know about thousands you speak of. Better yet try and find skilled machinists. It is not a dying trade it is becoming an isolated trade where a skill that you are rewarded for is few and far between

Maybe you should consider moving your shop to China. You'll make a killing using people who will work endless hours for super low wages!

 

[vinnycr2]

Brendan I apreciate you taking the time to show my post to your H/R person and posting what she had to say.

I'll be contacting you should I loose my job over this.

I almost blew a mouth full of Mountain Dew on my keyboard when I read your post with the Cat 50 comment. I can better that. We use 6" Shear Mills and ( not that I would do it ) but I dream of maxing out the spindle at 6 grand with the 6" in it and do a Z- China as he is walking by and duck just before impact.

To all who mentioned legal action it will surely be taken if needed.

As for the posts about reasoning with the freak show, I have tried. He is a nut case for real! Not like when you say sarcastically he has a few loose screws in his head. As far as I'm concerned he is By Polar.

All good comments about possible ways to deal with him. The hydraulic fluid in his morning coffee got a good chuckle also.

I'm ready do deal a 2X4 to his head that I keep close by. It will only be used if he comes at me first and then and only then will I be more than ready to use it on his head.

 

[Busa Dude]

Sounds like he's trying to make you mad , and its working, Thats what his goal is, Don't show yourself mad, then he will push to far and then , you got him, just my 2 cents, good luck , I'm a supervisor and I don't like punks like that, punks will come and go pretty quick

 

[mikeo]

Try to find out what his problem is with you. If he is the tipical dip sh$t that just likes to pick on people for no reason take care of him. If he is twice your size and is beating on you take him out. Self defense.

 

[mzrsq]

(vinnycr2 @ Oct. 25 2006,21:22) Maybe you should consider moving your shop to China. You'll make a killing using people who will work endless hours for super low wages!

It's about it being impossible to compete, it's not about paying a man what he's worth.  If you break it down, it's almost impossible to pay a skilled machinist an adequate wage today.  When you take a look at health care benefits, workmans comp, unemployment insurance, then throw in vacation pay, sick days, holiday pay................I'm not saying you're not worth it, I'm saying the average machine shop today can't make enough to pay it.  By the time you quote a job high enough to cover your skilled labor and make a profit to, you can watch the job slide right out the front door to the guy down the street.

I'm not sure about New England, but here in Ohio, especially in the Akron/Cleveland area........Shops are going under weekly................Try Michigan...........hell, with the automotive gone and the industry dying, shops are taking jobs at bottom dollar just to try and keep an open door,  try competing with that.  Unless your shop specializes in something and you have a customer that NEEDS you cause he can't go someplace else..........it's a damn tough business.  As for your attitude that your employer should be damn happy to have you.........well that in and of itslef may be reason why you've seen no raise in 6 years.  Speaking for myself, I've not seen one in 3 1/2 years............it's just not there, I've got responsibilites to those in my employment and struggle monthly to meet them. To be completely honest with you, the machine shop/job shop of tomorrow will be one skilled machinist and the rest all automated button pushers.  It truely sucks that that is the road we are headed down, but it will be the only way to survive.

I know your original post was to seek guidance with a problem employee.............it just irked me when I read the rest of your statements...................I gaurantee you this.................you need them more than they need you. Your replacement may not be as good, or know as much, or even be qualified..............but's there's always a replacement.  Remember, you at one time had to learn to become who and what you are, and right now there's some as you say "asswipe", learning and waiting for his chance.

 

[vinnycr2]

(mzrsq @ Oct. 25 2006,22:06)

(vinnycr2 @ Oct. 25 2006,21:22) Maybe you should consider moving your shop to China. You'll make a killing using people who will work endless hours for super low wages!

It's about it being impossible to compete, it's not about paying a man what he's worth.  If you break it down, it's almost impossible to pay a skilled machinist an adequate wage today.  When you take a look at health care benefits, workmans comp, unemployment insurance, then throw in vacation pay, sick days, holiday pay................I'm not saying you're not worth it, I'm saying the average machine shop today can't make enough to pay it.  By the time you quote a job high enough to cover your skilled labor and make a profit to, you can watch the job slide right out the front door to the guy down the street.

I'm not sure about New England, but here in Ohio, especially in the Akron/Cleveland area........Shops are going under weekly................Try Michigan...........hell, with the automotive gone and the industry dying, shops are taking jobs at bottom dollar just to try and keep an open door,  try competing with that.  Unless your shop specializes in something and you have a customer that NEEDS you cause he can't go someplace else..........it's a damn tough business.  As for your attitude that your employer should be damn happy to have you.........well that in and of itslef may be reason why you've seen no raise in 6 years.  Speaking for myself, I've not seen one in 3 1/2 years............it's just not there, I've got responsibilites to those in my employment and struggle monthly to meet them. To be completely honest with you, the machine shop/job shop of tomorrow will be one skilled machinist and the rest all automated button pushers.  It truely sucks that that is the road we are headed down, but it will be the only way to survive.

I know your original post was to seek guidance with a problem employee.............it just irked me when I read the rest of your statements...................I gaurantee you this.................you need them more than they need you. Your replacement may not be as good, or know as much, or even be qualified..............but's there's always a replacement.  Remember, you at one time had to learn to become who and what you are, and right now there's some as you say "asswipe", learning and waiting for his chance.

My employer is not the average machine shop. They handle large parts. They have an Okuma Bridge mill that is almost as big as my house.

As for my attitude that my employer should be damn happy to have me.........well that in and of itslef is not the reason why I've seen no raise in 6 years.

You should have seen the quality of people that came through the door when they use to place a big ad in the large circulation newspapers.

They have gone through hundreds of people since I started back in 89. When I started I was not totally green at the trade. My clock # was 563 when I started. They are well past the 1,000 mark and I'm still there because they need me as much as I need them.

Like I said they can pay inexperienced people to do double duty for the same pay and put up with the rework and scrap. They are losing money taking this route. The money is there. The company is making more than enough to cover the wages. They just got used to not parting with any more than they feel they have to.

Yes I had to learn and I did. There is a big problem with finding people to do the same. They just let 2 people go last week becausae they couldn't handle the type of work we do. One didn't make the standard 90 day trial and the other wasn't reliable.

I don't know about Ohio but in New England there doesn't seem to be a lot of people with common sense to handle the machine shop trade.

I can't tell you how many times new hires have crashed a machine that shakes the floor beneath you.

What irks me is that when the company has the money to give they use the economy as an excuse. They are coming right out into the open and telling us this but to get some of it pull double duty to get it.

I don't doubt what you are saying about your financial situation running your shop and am not trying to pick a fight with you over it. My situation is different thus my complaints about doing double duty for the same wage for the last 6 years to get what I and a few others deserve!

Yes it does suck to the highest level that not just this trade but many occupations are taking this route. It is killing this country. Especially the Scumbag CEO'S who are walking away with millions while not improving the the comany and ( some actually do ) getting fantastic packages to leave.

My original post was for both issues.

 

[VelvetJones]

Yeah working in a machine shop you should have ample opportunity to help this jackazz have an "accident". I'm not saying anything that would end his sorry life but something that would maim him and put him in a different career like maybe licking stamps because his hands are gone.

I don't think you should have to put up with it. There are no outlets for you to take legally in the workplace you just have to ask your conscience (sp?) if you could handle it mentally if you got rid of this guy and he lost a limb in the process. You have every right in the world to go to work and do your job and be left alone. If he doesnt want to respect that and be the bully then take care of business. I had a similar problem only the guy that was messing with me his dad was a line foreman on a different line in the plant. Finally one night he came up to me at break time and started pushing me around and when he grabbed my throat and started threatening me I put him through a vending machine head first. His dad was in the break area and afterwards came up to me and told me it was about time someone put that cocky bastard into his place. Hes just glad it wasn't someone after work with a gun that put an early end to his life.

While you are at it I would make sure to help the instigators that get things started have an accident as well. Maybe a caustic chemical spill would do the trick. Nobody is going to stand up for you its something you have to do for yourself. Just make absolutely sure that there is no way you can get caught. Don't go into areas you normally don't to set things up and don't touch things that you normally don't touch and get your prints on them. Just act completely normal and when something happens to these guys act suprised and shocked and make sure to ask if they are "O.K". Maybe after they have an accident head up a safety committee to find a way for "accidents" like that to be avoided in the future.

Oh and if you don't want to do that get a lawyer and get him up to speed on the situation and then file a complaint with the company. If the company wont do anything about it and fires you then sue them for everything they got. When you are done put your name on the door and run it the right way. Take care of your employees and make sure that everyone gets along. They have professionals that come into workplaces to mediate problems between employees.

Personally I would make damn sure I did it undercover but I would do everything I could to make sure this guy couldnt even wipe his ass without someone helping him. People who start trouble to be tough and pick on people with no provocation have no business walking this earth. If they are going out of their way to cause trouble with you and your boss wont do anything then its up to you to put an end to it. If you are wondering there is no such thing as a fair fight. You aren't a boxer or martial artist and you aren't in a tournament for a trophy so don't worry about fighting fair. Pick up anything you can and beat him within and inch of his life if he ever puts his hands on you. If he is 2x your size a jury will say that he was bullying you and you defended yourself. Edit::: Oh and the guys that are telling him things and starting the trouble are just as bad as him and don't deserve any better.

You can call me crazy or a psycho but like Alice said

The best defense is a good offense!

Whatever you decide to do dont get in trouble. Best of luck to you and I hope this guy gets hit by a car tomorrow and his friends that help him get all jacked up to mess with you catch the aids from a transvestite hooker.

-vJ-

 

[SAMBUSA]

Vinny, come to Ohio. I'll get you a job on the RR making probably more than you are now. You dont have to deal with knuckle draggers there. You only start with 2 weeks vacation then 3 after 5 years. Insurance is great and the retirement is second to none(ask runeight) Hope it all works out for ya bro.

 

[AES]

id say catch him after work unless you are ready for a change, then go to ohio and work for the railroad. the fact is that big guys that pick on people usually couldnt fight their way out of a wet paper bag.... guy that had a good time needs his neck snapped

 

[Aquaman]

Most companys like vin's have contracts to fulfill and actually do need,and rely on their employees. What I have found in our shop is that 10% do the work for the 90% who dont!
M
Good machinists??? Huh,they dont exist anymore,they should be glad they have a skilled guy like Vin.You know why,cause I live it everyday,and there are none left...and all you got now is to hire lazy dufusses that dont wanna work never mind learn how to drill and tap a pert!!

I started at my job in 1984,was very hungry at learning,I learned bridgeports,manual lathes,chuckers,cnc lathes,cnc machining centers.
I now work in the engineering dept. programming all the machines using mastercam and playing with Cad all day long,engineering parts for manufacturing.I make 35 bucks an hr. get overtime,get a $4000.00 Xmas bonus every year,my boss is awesome....Tell me he dont need me???
He's told me himself.
Believe me Vin,they most definately need you much more than you need them.

Ooh,and I get a raise every year!!

 

[vinnycr2]

Brendan !!!WOW!!! yer making me drool man. I don't even make half what you make. Not even close with OT! I can only imagine being in a situation like yours. Good for you!

Your job commands more resonsibilty than the guy's on the floor. So you should get a pay rate above the guy's on the floor.

What bothers me the most is like today watching a massive kiss ass ball sucking the shop foreman all day long right out in the open with a sh#% eating grin on his face because he makes more than a lot of guys on the floor and isn't even worth his weight in his own crap.

If that's what it is going to take to make up for lost wages from these past years I'm going to be stuck at my current rate until something better comes along.

I was making $17.00 an hour about 8 years ago. They took 10% from all of us and gave back 5% 2 years later. I'm now at $16.15 an hour where I have been the last 6 + years.

I live in RI and work in MA. RI shops are a laughing matter when it comes to paying good wages.

At my place we used to get the preverbial go out and see what it is like out there knowing fully well that we'd be hard pressed to find the pay rate we are getting.

Now they won't mention it since they have gone through a sh load of useless people. So we are kind of at a stalemate. We the employess hoping something better will come along and them the employer hoping we don't find something better.

I laugh when I apply for a job in RI that states excellent pay and the guy is stunned when he sees what I am currently making and replies I have guys that have been here for 10 years that are not making that much!

 

[mzrsq]

Vinny, the more I read, the more I maybe over reacted in my first post to you. After all your years of service $16.15 and hour is just above a good kick in the ass every time you walk through the door. I assumed after you years and related skills you were making more toward the $20 or so an hour scale. Hell, it's hard to find a kid out of school who will work for $12.00 and even if you do, they never show up on time , or at all. In this area it's hard to find a good young machinist with skills and a work ethic, but on the other hand, it's impoosible to jire the older generation as coming from this area, they are all ex GoodYear, BF Goodrich, Firestone, Union guys, who have lots of skill and knowledge, but seek the same union pay and benifits they used to have with the big companies.

Brendan, I own half the damn company, do all the cad work, set-up, inspection, shipping recieving, secretarial, and run 2 machines and don't even come close to what your getting...........My God, I should fire myself and come work with you.

 

[vinnycr2]

Scott all cool. Over reaction is always present when something gets under our skin. It showed in a few of my posts.

Now you can understand how I feel by not giving in and give them more when they won't give me more.

I can't tell you how many times I put in 60 + hour weeks for these people when they asked me to. I really didn't need the money. It was there for the taking and that was when I had a little more dedication.

About 8 or 9 years ago ( not to long before they cut our pay ) I worked from September through the end of the year 6:00 AM ( 6:00 AM to 5:00 PM normal hours ) to any where from 7 to 9 at night M - F and 6:00 AM to noon Saturday to get an order out before the end of the year that wasn't dew until Spring but the customer agreed to take delivery. 70 + hours in that time period.

This means nothing to them. No thank you no bonus no raise not even a gift card nothing. From that point on especially after they cut our pay not to ong after that I just think of my family to get me through the day and that is why I'm here. I used to like to think that I was helping both my family and them. Not any more.

When I mentioned the massive kiss ass in my last post he is every bit of it. Totally discusting and way beyond belief by many in the shop. We've seen em before but this guy ( I refuse to call him a man ) goes way beyond the ass wipe. He's the standard by which the word is measured by.

It's one of those things that needs to be seen to believe. HE is like a lost boy when the shop foreman takes a day off and even worse when the freak show takes the same day off. No one will talk to him or help him in any way shape or form.

If I offended you in any way my sincere apologies.

 

[mzrsq]

Vinny,

Never offended me, just thought I seen another whinning machinist who thought he deserved more. Like I said, jumped to conclusions and thought I'd give ya the story from another perspective. I've been in enough shops, and seen and heard enough employee's whine and cry about how they deserve more, but in most cases they won't give more themselves. I obviously drew the wrong conclusions with you, but based on experience, your that rare side of the coin. It's one thing not to give a raise, or vacation, or whatever...............but to take money away, or vacation time away or any given benefit you already had is just beyond exceptable. In your case you don't make enough to have to put up with problem employee's attitude and disrespect. Hope it all works out for you.

 

[BusaBret]

Vinny,

Holy Crap! If you have half the skills you say dump that place and find a new job. Within 50 miles of me there are abot 2 dozen shops that are starting trade school kids for more than you are making. Over half of these shops the top out is mid to upper twenties and several will have you there in less than a year if you can do the job. I have only been in the trade 10 years and make $22 an hour. We as well go thru about 20 newbies to get 1 good one.

Let me also apologize for my previous post. I can't tell you how many times I have heard the ole poor me, I'm better than him and he makes more than I do. Assumptions are the mother of all screwups and I made one here. No hard feelings???

 

[Aquaman]

Vin,we are always looking for good help. We build Aircraft and Gas Turbine parts for GE..
We ship out lotsa dollars out the door in product,this is how the company I work for takes care of their employees.
If you get perfect attendance at my place,they give you a 500$$ bonus every yr. I pay 45 dollars a week for family plan blue cross blue shield.
All paid holidays ect....

No offence Vin,but I'd be ashamed to admit it if I made what you did! That's pathetic.
It's too bad you couldnt make it up this way....


My Company

 

[Poppy]

Wow, this is great. Sounds like you have 3 offers. 1 RR, 2 machinists. Nice going! I say make a change in your life, for the better. Do it!

 

[vinnycr2]

Bret no problem I'm cool.

Brendan I knew I was underpaid but not any where near as bad as I now know.

That is pretty much what the pay scale is down hear. The company uses the average payscale in the area.

They can well afford to pay more but like to use the above statement as an excuse not to give us more.

Rhode Island is a lot worse if you can believe that.

Beverly is at least a 2 hour ride from me. No matter what I would make there, a 2 hour ride will grow tiresome pretty quick. Wish you were closer!

Just came home from a 30 mile 44 degree ride in the rain.

 

[chrisjp]

international try this link..they are advertising heavy for machininst in our area and will pay for relocaton they are manufacturs of International heavy equiptment and i make transmission parts for them...big buisness...as for your situation...i make 20+ hr and full bennifits but i also am union...i did the 8-10 bucks hour running 5 machines getting no respect and cussed and demoralized...there is better out there...always be moving up...do what is best for your health because in the long run...it is all that matters