Race bike problem

Busa_05

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So on my CBR F4 I took off the carbs to check them out. Cleaned them, put them back on, reassembled my stuff...and the bike won't start now. I checked the following:

I have spark.

There is fuel in the bowls.

The hoses all appeared re-connected correctly.

If I pour gas directly into the carbs, the bike will start and run well, until that gas is gone.

Anyone have any idea what the prob could be? These are CV carbs. It seems like a vacuum issue from the bowls into the carbs? Any help would be great! Thanks guys!

Jason
 
Did you shut the fuel pet-cock off and not return it to on....
On my old GSXR1100, I got the tank line kinked and the bike wouldn't run..

Would bet this has something to do with the routing of your fuel lines. Did the bike run prior to removing the carbs?



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Did you shut the fuel pet-cock off and not return it to on....
On my old GSXR1100, I got the tank line kinked and the bike wouldn't run..

Would bet this has something to do with the routing of your fuel lines. Did the bike run prior to removing the carbs?
Well, fuel lines are connected. The pet-cock was on. The bowls wouldn't have filled up with fuel if the pet-cock was off, the fuel line was kinked, the filter or pump was bad.

Any other ideas?...please?...this is really getting frustrating.
mad.gif




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Well, not to be too simplistic, but since you've established that fuel is getting from the tank to the bowls that eliminates a kinked fuel line and the first thing that came to my mind - a vacuum actuated petcock that you forgot to hook up.

So, you have spark, you have fuel going to the bowls - the bike runs when you manually feed it fuel - but the fuel in the bowls isn't getting into the airstream.

Carbs work on Bernoulli's Principle, so when you prime the engine with fuel, and the engine starts, the fuel in the bowls should be drawn into the airstream.

I guess my question at this point is -- When the engine starts by your priming it, does it use just the fuel you poured in or does it also use the fuel in the bowls?

If the former, then you have some stoppage of fuel from the bowls to the airstream.

If the latter than I'd go back to the petcock.

Do you have a vacuum line that doesn't seem to have a home??
 
Well, not to be too simplistic, but since you've established that fuel is getting from the tank to the bowls that eliminates a kinked fuel line and the first thing that came to my mind - a vacuum actuated petcock that you forgot to hook up.

So, you have spark, you have fuel going to the bowls - the bike runs when you manually feed it fuel - but the fuel in the bowls isn't getting into the airstream.  

Carbs work on Bernoulli's Principle, so when you prime the engine with fuel, and the engine starts, the fuel in the bowls should be drawn into the airstream.  

I guess my question at this point is  --  When the engine starts by your priming it, does it use just the fuel you poured in or does it also use the fuel in the bowls?

If the former, then you have some stoppage of fuel from the bowls to the airstream.

If the latter than I'd go back to the petcock.  

Do you have a vacuum line that doesn't seem to have a home??
See, that's exactly the same thing I'm wondering...

When I prime it as so, the fuel remains in the bowls. It will run until the gas used to prime it runs out. Then if I check the bowls, they leak fuel, so there's still fuel in there.

I'm assuming the vacuum problem as well, but all my damn hoses have a home. When it starts, even when it's primed, the carb don't suck much at all.

I ordered a service manual for the thing last week, but it's still not here yet. I hope it gets here soon. I got it for situations just like this. Now I want to look at the schematics and see if maybe I have a hose crossed somewhere, or neglected to do something with the carbs when I put them back together? I guess the thing to do is take the damn carbs off and make sure I didn't neglect a hose or something. I usually have a very good memory for stuff like that though....

Agh!

Thanks, Aughtsix. I really appreciate your thinking on this...got anything further?....

Jason
 
Here's some general info on carbs:

http://www.drpiston.com/Cvcarbs.html

One thing to watch for is, when you get the engine running by priming it with fuel, do the carbs appear to respond to different throttle openings, i.e. are the slides moving to increase fuel flow?
 
Well, not to be too simplistic, but since you've established that fuel is getting from the tank to the bowls that eliminates a kinked fuel line and the first thing that came to my mind - a vacuum actuated petcock that you forgot to hook up.

So, you have spark, you have fuel going to the bowls - the bike runs when you manually feed it fuel - but the fuel in the bowls isn't getting into the airstream.  

Carbs work on Bernoulli's Principle, so when you prime the engine with fuel, and the engine starts, the fuel in the bowls should be drawn into the airstream.  

I guess my question at this point is  --  When the engine starts by your priming it, does it use just the fuel you poured in or does it also use the fuel in the bowls?

If the former, then you have some stoppage of fuel from the bowls to the airstream.

If the latter than I'd go back to the petcock.  

Do you have a vacuum line that doesn't seem to have a home??
See, that's exactly the same thing I'm wondering...

When I prime it as so, the fuel remains in the bowls. It will run until the gas used to prime it runs out. Then if I check the bowls, they leak fuel, so there's still fuel in there.

I'm assuming the vacuum problem as well, but all my damn hoses have a home. When it starts, even when it's primed, the carb don't suck much at all.

I ordered a service manual for the thing last week, but it's still not here yet. I hope it gets here soon. I got it for situations just like this. Now I want to look at the schematics and see if maybe I have a hose crossed somewhere, or neglected to do something with the carbs when I put them back together? I guess the thing to do is take the damn carbs off and make sure I didn't neglect a hose or something. I usually have a very good memory for stuff like that though....

Agh!

Thanks, Aughtsix. I really appreciate your thinking on this...got anything further?....

Jason

First question: Do your carbs have wet (fuel) idle circuits? If so, did you remember to install the (correct) idle circuit jets? And, are your idle air bleed screws all the way in? Or backed out 1 1/2 to 3 turns to allow for idle air...

Otherwise, let's go back to basics.  The fuel is getting from the tank to the bowls.  It's allowed in by the needles actuated by the floats.  Okay, once in there it will sit until it (i) evaporates away, (ii) leaks out, or (iii) is drawn out by the vacuum created by the incoming air.  It's drawn up through the jets and introduced into the high velocity airstream.

Okay, when you 'prime' the engine, and it runs, air IS being drawn through the carbs creating vacuum (again, Bernoulli's Principle, which is unavoidable).  The only thing I can think of that would prohibit the fuel from being drawn up into the airstream is (i) you installed the wrong jets (waaaaaay too small), (ii) all four jets are plugged, or (iii) insufficient vacuum is being created caused, most likely, by the slides being too far open or (iii a) the idle air circuits being closed or too far open.

I'll keep pondering it and/but I hope something in here helps...



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Any luck yet Jason?
rock.gif


Should we go pay Brett a "visit" this weekend?
wink.gif
 
Are the floats set correctly?

Try this:

Take a carb off the bike.  Make sure the float bowl is full.  Cover the engine side of the carb with a clean rag.  Put you mouth against the intake side and blow.  The rag should get some gas on it (just a mist).  If it does, you carb may be working properly, but may need adjustment.  If it's dry, I would suspect your float settings.



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