Proposal
- Thread starter Iced
- Start date
(I love crap like this!)
Congrats, Iced! Been married 15 years, myself. Here's how we did it, if you're interested, that is! ;-)
Start off on the right foot. Talk about and plan EVERYTHING with her. Here's the short list:
-Kids. Will you or won't you and how many? Will one of you stay home and raise 'em while the other works? Why or why not? If one of you wants kids and the other doesn't, don't do it! Especially if she wants 'em and you don't. We don't have kids but that's a long story. Bottom line is, to have kids requires you to change your lifestyle drastically. How do ALL of the below topics et al relate to having kids?
-Sex. How often? How kinky? What fantasies have you not fulfilled? Is she rockin' your world? Are you rockin' hers? Will she do the ol' bait-and-switch on you and cut you off after the wedding cake is cut up? Ask her, brother! Make sure those things are fixed BEFORE you tie the knot! Decide in advance what kinds of things are off limits to each of you and decide how to experiment with each other.
-Money. Joint accounts? Separate accounts? Who will pay the bills? Which ones go to which of you for payment? Do you have a problem with her making more money than you? Does she? Will she lose respect for you if you're not making enough money? Are you both responsible or spendy? Can you save? Do you actually do it? Bottom line here is, you have to live within your means and you have to figure out how to do it. And if either of you have wealthy parents, remember, taking handouts from them can have a tendency to damage your self-respect. Tread carefully with money throughout your marriage. Also, talk about debt and what kinds of debt are tolerable to you both, if any.
-School. If either of you are not done with school, are you going to try to finish after you're married? Before? Are both of you willing to endure the crap involved in supporting the other in the meantime? I sweartagawd, finish school before you have kids at least. Preferably before you get married but . . . .
-Career. Can have an effect on where you live, mostly. In other words, is the career of one of you going to interfere with the ability of the other to pursue a different career. But if one of you is in a dangerous career, ie. Cop, Firefighter, Crossing Guard (j/k!) will that cause a problem with the other of you?
-Friends. Do you like each other's friends? Are you planning to hang out with each other's friends? Will she start bad-mouthing your buds? You hers? Always remember who's side you're on if you get into an argument about your friends or hers.
-Family. When you marry her, you marry her whole family, usually. Even if you don't like 'em. That's okay, just make sure you both realize there could be differences. Again, remember who's side you're on if disagreements occur. Also, how close to them are you willing to live? If yours and hers are across the state or country, which family will you live close to, hers or yers? Or neither?
-Living (Where?) Southern California is great! I highly recommend it! ;-) Seriously, talk about this, too.
-Housekeeping. Are either of you slobs? Who gets to clean house? If the one of you who stays home with the kids is a messy house keeper, is that going to be a huge problem for the other? Sounds like a stupid question but when you come home to a sink full of dishes, and it really pisses you off, it makes it tough to get past other things that come up. Remember, a maid can save your marriage! ;-)
-Pre-marital counselling. Go get it. You need to know how to effectively communicate with each other. We didn't do this until we had been married about two years and it nearly cost us a great marriage. 'nuff said about that.
-Prenup. Someone suggested this before and if you have significant assets at this point, it is well worth it to get one. But if you're both dirt poor like we were when we married don't waste your $$$. It won't help you in any way. Bear in mind, ANYTHING can go into a prenup including all the stuff above.
-Live together first. I usually suggest that people live together for five years first. But do what you think is best. You'll know the time in any case!
Obviously, you don't have to talk about all this stuff in one big jam session but over the course of your engagement, hash all of this crap out. It made a HUGE difference in our marriage.
And what others have said before is very true: The first year will be tough. Actually, for us, the first year was pretty good, the second was pure hell and after we finally got the counselling we should have gotten before our marriage, we have done better and better since. I've noticed that the majority of the divorces I know of personally happened in about the third or fourth year.
Get advice from people. If you think the above is bunk I won't be the least offended 'cause it's just my opinion, of course, but find someone you DO trust to give you the advice you think you need.
Lastly, I WHOLEHEARTEDLY second the motion of eloping. Take the money you would have paid for a wedding reception and run off the Vegas or Atlantic City and get hitched with a couple of close friends in tow. The smaller the better. We were married in a pastor's office at 10:30pm on a Tuesday night with 6 family members in attendance. Perfect!
--Wag--
Congrats, Iced! Been married 15 years, myself. Here's how we did it, if you're interested, that is! ;-)
Start off on the right foot. Talk about and plan EVERYTHING with her. Here's the short list:
-Kids. Will you or won't you and how many? Will one of you stay home and raise 'em while the other works? Why or why not? If one of you wants kids and the other doesn't, don't do it! Especially if she wants 'em and you don't. We don't have kids but that's a long story. Bottom line is, to have kids requires you to change your lifestyle drastically. How do ALL of the below topics et al relate to having kids?
-Sex. How often? How kinky? What fantasies have you not fulfilled? Is she rockin' your world? Are you rockin' hers? Will she do the ol' bait-and-switch on you and cut you off after the wedding cake is cut up? Ask her, brother! Make sure those things are fixed BEFORE you tie the knot! Decide in advance what kinds of things are off limits to each of you and decide how to experiment with each other.
-Money. Joint accounts? Separate accounts? Who will pay the bills? Which ones go to which of you for payment? Do you have a problem with her making more money than you? Does she? Will she lose respect for you if you're not making enough money? Are you both responsible or spendy? Can you save? Do you actually do it? Bottom line here is, you have to live within your means and you have to figure out how to do it. And if either of you have wealthy parents, remember, taking handouts from them can have a tendency to damage your self-respect. Tread carefully with money throughout your marriage. Also, talk about debt and what kinds of debt are tolerable to you both, if any.
-School. If either of you are not done with school, are you going to try to finish after you're married? Before? Are both of you willing to endure the crap involved in supporting the other in the meantime? I sweartagawd, finish school before you have kids at least. Preferably before you get married but . . . .
-Career. Can have an effect on where you live, mostly. In other words, is the career of one of you going to interfere with the ability of the other to pursue a different career. But if one of you is in a dangerous career, ie. Cop, Firefighter, Crossing Guard (j/k!) will that cause a problem with the other of you?
-Friends. Do you like each other's friends? Are you planning to hang out with each other's friends? Will she start bad-mouthing your buds? You hers? Always remember who's side you're on if you get into an argument about your friends or hers.
-Family. When you marry her, you marry her whole family, usually. Even if you don't like 'em. That's okay, just make sure you both realize there could be differences. Again, remember who's side you're on if disagreements occur. Also, how close to them are you willing to live? If yours and hers are across the state or country, which family will you live close to, hers or yers? Or neither?
-Living (Where?) Southern California is great! I highly recommend it! ;-) Seriously, talk about this, too.
-Housekeeping. Are either of you slobs? Who gets to clean house? If the one of you who stays home with the kids is a messy house keeper, is that going to be a huge problem for the other? Sounds like a stupid question but when you come home to a sink full of dishes, and it really pisses you off, it makes it tough to get past other things that come up. Remember, a maid can save your marriage! ;-)
-Pre-marital counselling. Go get it. You need to know how to effectively communicate with each other. We didn't do this until we had been married about two years and it nearly cost us a great marriage. 'nuff said about that.
-Prenup. Someone suggested this before and if you have significant assets at this point, it is well worth it to get one. But if you're both dirt poor like we were when we married don't waste your $$$. It won't help you in any way. Bear in mind, ANYTHING can go into a prenup including all the stuff above.
-Live together first. I usually suggest that people live together for five years first. But do what you think is best. You'll know the time in any case!
Obviously, you don't have to talk about all this stuff in one big jam session but over the course of your engagement, hash all of this crap out. It made a HUGE difference in our marriage.
And what others have said before is very true: The first year will be tough. Actually, for us, the first year was pretty good, the second was pure hell and after we finally got the counselling we should have gotten before our marriage, we have done better and better since. I've noticed that the majority of the divorces I know of personally happened in about the third or fourth year.
Get advice from people. If you think the above is bunk I won't be the least offended 'cause it's just my opinion, of course, but find someone you DO trust to give you the advice you think you need.
Lastly, I WHOLEHEARTEDLY second the motion of eloping. Take the money you would have paid for a wedding reception and run off the Vegas or Atlantic City and get hitched with a couple of close friends in tow. The smaller the better. We were married in a pastor's office at 10:30pm on a Tuesday night with 6 family members in attendance. Perfect!
--Wag--
haha, Thanks Haywood
Thanks Wag,
wow, lots of info... Thanks a million for sharing
We are lucky to be able to talk about anything and everything. We have talked about all those things at some point in our relationship so far... PHEW!
Kids, i want 2, she wants 2 or 3... but we agree on what happens... happens. At least we agree on kids! We both agree that its us that really wants to raise the kids and if that means one of us staying home, that would be fine by us. Ideally, she wants to stay home and I could work from home (my job permits that). But we both understand the situation.
Sex - We were very fortunate to discover each other without the interference of being physical. We have grown to be best friends. Being one spiritually and mentally, physically is the added bonus and comes naturally. But the important thing is to find your match spiritually and mentally first. Physically 'matching' with someone is trivial. Sex in marriage? Here's a quote we both agree on: When a man and woman marry, they become one flesh and their body is now shared with their partner; it no longer belongs solely to him or herself. “The husband should not deprive his wife of sexual intimacy, which is her right as a married woman, nor should the wife deprive her husband. The wife gives authority over her body to her husband, and the husband also gives authority over his body to his wife†(1Cor 7:3-4)
Money, agreed on one account. We both agree there is no need for separation and distinction in this. We are in this together. Never take advantage of your parents. They will feel the need to take care of you, but we are more than capable to handle things on our own. I agree about constantly taking handouts from someone especially parents as you put it would eventually lead to a lack of self-respect. Good point!
School - we have both finished our education but possibly will take additional follow-up or part-time courses once in a while to keep our minds fresh
Career - Hey, I'm a crossing guard...
haha, j/k we're both in the "computer" arena. She does technical support and I do software development. She has also expressed a possible career change that we will talk about more. I'm pretty comfortable where i am, but would also like to take some new courses for upgrades... We've also both explored for ways for the dream of working from home together and something we both like (more of my dream actually).
Friends and family - We are each others best friend that can share anything and everything with each other. We have met the friends we are close with and everyone gets along. All family lives close and gets along with each other just great. I have a sister who is married, lives about 15 minutes away, has 2yr old baby girl with fraternal twins on the way in a few weeks! My parents live about 30 minutes away, her family lives 2 minutes away with her brother and sister.
Living - there is no place we both would rather be and that's West Coast Canada. Vancouver is the place we both agree on. We love the outdoors and we both agree we have never been anywhere we would rather be. The weather here isn't too bad either!
Pre-marital couselling - we've asked the Pastor that is marrying us about this and we will be attending a course. There is also another course for those that are newly married that we plan on taking as well.
Prenup - We don't believe in them. Actually, there won't really be anything to put in one because everything is being liquidated, everything must go! Hurry the sale runs out soon.. Limited time! haha, everything is being sold or donated at the moment. We will both want to start from scratch.
Live together first - been there, done that... never again. I lived with someone for 4 years and that was the worst mistake i could ever make. Why? Moving in with someone just to see if i could stand them was the wrong way to go. There were already doubts and problems going into that situation that i thought would be fixed by living with her? It even sounds wrong the way I described it. But we all do it, thinking we need to live with someone first to solve problems...
how can u live with someone for so long and it being two seperate lives instead of just a shared life, a unquie union between two people. You can live with someone and get use to them, but have no real feeling toward them. Lesson learned I suppose. A lot of it as well is that people wish to live together first because there are already problems that aren't talked about hoping they will just resolve themselves but it doesn't turn out that way. It's sad to see that some laws today devalue the meaning of marriage with things like 'common law' and same-sex marriages (yes, opening up a can of worms for some of you). It tends to make people think that marriage is just a piece of paper when it's a heck of a lot more than that. (Wish i knew that before and anyways i could write a book on that). I wish I did it right and waited to find the right person first. Find that one person out there meant for you and all your 'living together' problems are minor. Putting up with a a towel on the floor or a misplaced spoon or a messy sink or a dirty towel or a left open cupboard are trivial problems... If those kinds of things drive you to a point that u can't stand each other, it's time to start looking for the real issue cause it's not really those little things
Those are little things you put up with.
Again, i am really really happy you shared what u did, Wag... Much appreciated and its a good review of everything. It's easy to get lost in the fury of wedding planning, but have to remember not to forget about ourselves.
Well i hope we've already gone thru the worst of things... Haha, we both say we've been thru hell and back already, but we expect new challenges to come up and possibly even tougher than before
As for Eloping... man that's a whole different book
Most of all, we both feel the love and friendship for each other. I can tell her i love her just by looking at her and she'll just smile... just cause she knows.
And last but not least, Wag, if that's your short list, I'm sure we'd be interested in the long list
----
Bill, call me a geek, but i wrote a small countdown timer... haha, here's a screenshot
<!--EDIT|Iced
Reason for Edit: "additions"|1094831299 -->
Thanks Wag,
wow, lots of info... Thanks a million for sharing
We are lucky to be able to talk about anything and everything. We have talked about all those things at some point in our relationship so far... PHEW!
Kids, i want 2, she wants 2 or 3... but we agree on what happens... happens. At least we agree on kids! We both agree that its us that really wants to raise the kids and if that means one of us staying home, that would be fine by us. Ideally, she wants to stay home and I could work from home (my job permits that). But we both understand the situation.
Sex - We were very fortunate to discover each other without the interference of being physical. We have grown to be best friends. Being one spiritually and mentally, physically is the added bonus and comes naturally. But the important thing is to find your match spiritually and mentally first. Physically 'matching' with someone is trivial. Sex in marriage? Here's a quote we both agree on: When a man and woman marry, they become one flesh and their body is now shared with their partner; it no longer belongs solely to him or herself. “The husband should not deprive his wife of sexual intimacy, which is her right as a married woman, nor should the wife deprive her husband. The wife gives authority over her body to her husband, and the husband also gives authority over his body to his wife†(1Cor 7:3-4)
Money, agreed on one account. We both agree there is no need for separation and distinction in this. We are in this together. Never take advantage of your parents. They will feel the need to take care of you, but we are more than capable to handle things on our own. I agree about constantly taking handouts from someone especially parents as you put it would eventually lead to a lack of self-respect. Good point!
School - we have both finished our education but possibly will take additional follow-up or part-time courses once in a while to keep our minds fresh
Career - Hey, I'm a crossing guard...
Friends and family - We are each others best friend that can share anything and everything with each other. We have met the friends we are close with and everyone gets along. All family lives close and gets along with each other just great. I have a sister who is married, lives about 15 minutes away, has 2yr old baby girl with fraternal twins on the way in a few weeks! My parents live about 30 minutes away, her family lives 2 minutes away with her brother and sister.
Living - there is no place we both would rather be and that's West Coast Canada. Vancouver is the place we both agree on. We love the outdoors and we both agree we have never been anywhere we would rather be. The weather here isn't too bad either!
Pre-marital couselling - we've asked the Pastor that is marrying us about this and we will be attending a course. There is also another course for those that are newly married that we plan on taking as well.
Prenup - We don't believe in them. Actually, there won't really be anything to put in one because everything is being liquidated, everything must go! Hurry the sale runs out soon.. Limited time! haha, everything is being sold or donated at the moment. We will both want to start from scratch.
Live together first - been there, done that... never again. I lived with someone for 4 years and that was the worst mistake i could ever make. Why? Moving in with someone just to see if i could stand them was the wrong way to go. There were already doubts and problems going into that situation that i thought would be fixed by living with her? It even sounds wrong the way I described it. But we all do it, thinking we need to live with someone first to solve problems...
Again, i am really really happy you shared what u did, Wag... Much appreciated and its a good review of everything. It's easy to get lost in the fury of wedding planning, but have to remember not to forget about ourselves.
Well i hope we've already gone thru the worst of things... Haha, we both say we've been thru hell and back already, but we expect new challenges to come up and possibly even tougher than before
As for Eloping... man that's a whole different book
Most of all, we both feel the love and friendship for each other. I can tell her i love her just by looking at her and she'll just smile... just cause she knows.
And last but not least, Wag, if that's your short list, I'm sure we'd be interested in the long list
----
Bill, call me a geek, but i wrote a small countdown timer... haha, here's a screenshot
<!--EDIT|Iced
Reason for Edit: "additions"|1094831299 -->
Hey, Iced! What I wrote is geared toward generating thought on the topic of gettin' hitched. ;-) As long as you're thinking about things in an intelligent, open-minded fashion, you'll have a better than average chance of having it work out in the long run! Sure, there are a couple of things on which we disagree but that's not the point, really. The point is, be responsible and intelligent about it.
Despite everything I said and despite the fact that my marriage has been a raging success thus far, I am now of the belief that were we to do it all over again, we wouldn't even get married unless we KNEW we were going to have kids. My darling wife feels similarly which is both surprising and not surprising at the same time. Weird in a way.
The long version?!!! Whew, you ARE a glutton for punishment! And I had to go open my big yap!
I suppose this could go on and on. However, since you're already thinking about things, keep on track and you'll be all set! You've renewed my faith in the intelligence of the human race, Iced. Keep up the good work!
If I get time, I'll flesh out the text and give the long version. But if I don't, it won't matter much. You get the idea and it sounds like you have a good head on your shoulders.
Cheers!
--Wag--
Despite everything I said and despite the fact that my marriage has been a raging success thus far, I am now of the belief that were we to do it all over again, we wouldn't even get married unless we KNEW we were going to have kids. My darling wife feels similarly which is both surprising and not surprising at the same time. Weird in a way.
The long version?!!! Whew, you ARE a glutton for punishment! And I had to go open my big yap!
I suppose this could go on and on. However, since you're already thinking about things, keep on track and you'll be all set! You've renewed my faith in the intelligence of the human race, Iced. Keep up the good work!
If I get time, I'll flesh out the text and give the long version. But if I don't, it won't matter much. You get the idea and it sounds like you have a good head on your shoulders.
Cheers!
--Wag--
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