G
Guest
sorry folks...it's long
TOPICS TO BE COVERED:
->Dirty Pete v Hayabusa.org
->Censorship of Forums
->Moderation of Forums
->Site Changes & Upgrades
__________________________
INTRODUCTION
I would ask that you do two things for me:
->Please stop guessing and posting things regarding this situation when you don't really know what's up. The member who said that this is like a soap opera is right on...many of the things being said are causing more problems than really exist.
->Please keep an open mind and listen to what both of us have said...we both have valid points and neither of us is 100% right on this.
__________________________
DIRTY PETE v HAYABUSA.ORG
Dirty Pete has decided to no longer post to Hayabusa.org - he has NOT had his account removed. This was most likely a very tough decision for Pete to make and I have to say that I understand it 100%.
Pete was posting about membership needing to be open and/or picture posting, censorship and various other things that were just generally "civil unrest" in action (more info under Site Changes & Upgrades below). I took this badly and decided that I had had enough from Pete, as I had already explained all of this before and he and I had had a few run-ins on the cursing thing (more on cursing below). I made the decision to remove Pete's account and then had to go handle a pissed off little kid in the living room. When I came back, I realized that I didn't want Pete gone...truth be told, I've always had a special place in my heart for that "old dirty bastard" (NO, not like that) and thought of him the way you think of "star players" at work...they're always going to be a little bit of a pain in the *** to you, but they're worth it. He's a blunt guy as am I...so I sent him a blunt email...
It started by saying that I was going to remove his account but decided not to. Whether he took this as a threat or as something he didn't feel like dealing with, I don't know...what I do know is that I probably would have been bothered by it as well. Does this mean that I think that my reasoning or actions were wrong? No, but it does mean that I understand his viewpoint.
Contrary to popular belief, I actually like dissenting opinions...I'm the devil's advocate in almost every situation and think that dissent breeds ideas.
In short, Pete and I are talking via email. He left because he felt like he had to (I probably would have done the same in his shoes)...I did what I did because I felt like I had to. There's no reason for either of us to apologize, but I think we're both sorry about how things happened, if that makes sense. I would like him to come back, but I understand that only he can make that decision and the fact that we're talking does not really mean he will be. I, for one, hope he heads back this way...
__________________________
CENSORSHIP OF THE FORUMS
or "Why do we censor thee...let me count the reasons..."
I had parents complaining that they loved the site but simply couldn't justify visiting it with so much foul-mouthed behavior. Being a new parent myself, I understood this. I also had people that just didn't like it emailing me and complaining. These made me start thinking that maybe we should exclude a few words. Then there were a few posts in a short time that looked like tryouts to be a guest on the Dennis Miller Show (you know...where all the guests say F*** as many times as they can because they can) and I decided that maybe the filter would help.
A small group completely exploded over this violation of free speech...I won't even start on that topic, but suffice it to say that I like all of the Bill of Rights (excepting anything that might possibly allow Clinton to remain President) and agree that freedom of speech is vital...just not in every situation. This group also complained about the fact that valid words (like assess) were getting filtered, so I shut it down to specific words (like *** ) and asked that people not mess around with seeing what I hadn't filtered because it would just make the filter larger. This seemed to calm most of the dissenting opinions, but some still didn't like it.
We censor for one reason and one reason only...we were losing folks because of the language. My goal is to provide a community where you folks (and I) can get together and talk bikes...not where a specific few or those not offended by language could get together. To make any site a success, you have to find a common denominator. I think the "half-filter" is just that, as I have had 10x more thanks than complaints since installation of the "half-filter" -- this tells me it is doing some good.
The best way I can put this is the same way I've spoken with a few others in the past...you can still post, talk, chat, learn, etc. without cursing, but the person with the kids cannot visit if you do curse. That makes it a pretty easy choice to me.
Hope everyone understands this...
As for Yngve and his accusation that I am censoring threads, we'll address that below.
__________________________
MODERATION OF THE FORUMS
The forums have a moderator assigned to them...that is so that they can be moderated. Moderation is the act of removing things that are devoid of value and/or moving topics to the correct forums.
Since May, I have removed ~7 threads, shuffled (moved to a different forum) only 2 or 3 and combined quite a few threads by closing a topic. Most of the removed threads were empty, but I did delete one of Yngve's yesterday. The thread stated that Pete was banned and that everyone should send me an email regarding it. Since the information was wrong, that made the thread something that just started more trouble than it was worth. Additionally, we were already all talking about it on the forum, so the email would just have clogged my box.
I have locked 2 Dirty Pete threads today in an attempt to keep the topic on one thread, making it easier for all to read.
Moderation is a good thing which I have not spent enough time doing...I will be bringing on other moderators soon...I already have a few lined up.
__________________________
SITE CHANGES & UPGRADES
Okay...on to what started this mess anyway.
Everyone is anxious about the site rebuild and I can guarantee that I am more anxious than the rest of you. I'm dying over here...
I have programmers working on some specific upgrades I want done to the registration system and two other programs that will make the site much better. These changes are taking quite a bit longer than anticipated, but I'd rather have it late and correct than early and broken.
I have tried to keep registration closed during this time so that we would not have the extra people having to re-signup and complicate the process such that it slows it down. This obviously hasn't worked out wonderfully, but it's debatable as to whether it was actually a bad idea. This "additional delay theory" is also why I have been getting so frustrated...everytime someone emails me or wants me to re-explain something, it takes up time I could be using on the rebuild.
At any rate, I'm going to re-open registration for a day or two and email the folks that have been dying to get in...then I'll shut it again until this rebuild is complete.
To answer a few common questions:
->no, the delay has nothing to do with anything other than the rebuild
->no, the site will not cost you money when we're done
->yes, picture posting will be available
->yes, there will be a member database available
->yes, it will help me recoop some of our costs
->yes, there will be group purchasing options
__________________________
That's all folks! Did you make it this far?
Post any further questions and I'll be sure to post replies.
BigDog
TOPICS TO BE COVERED:
->Dirty Pete v Hayabusa.org
->Censorship of Forums
->Moderation of Forums
->Site Changes & Upgrades
__________________________
INTRODUCTION
I would ask that you do two things for me:
->Please stop guessing and posting things regarding this situation when you don't really know what's up. The member who said that this is like a soap opera is right on...many of the things being said are causing more problems than really exist.
->Please keep an open mind and listen to what both of us have said...we both have valid points and neither of us is 100% right on this.
__________________________
DIRTY PETE v HAYABUSA.ORG
Dirty Pete has decided to no longer post to Hayabusa.org - he has NOT had his account removed. This was most likely a very tough decision for Pete to make and I have to say that I understand it 100%.
Pete was posting about membership needing to be open and/or picture posting, censorship and various other things that were just generally "civil unrest" in action (more info under Site Changes & Upgrades below). I took this badly and decided that I had had enough from Pete, as I had already explained all of this before and he and I had had a few run-ins on the cursing thing (more on cursing below). I made the decision to remove Pete's account and then had to go handle a pissed off little kid in the living room. When I came back, I realized that I didn't want Pete gone...truth be told, I've always had a special place in my heart for that "old dirty bastard" (NO, not like that) and thought of him the way you think of "star players" at work...they're always going to be a little bit of a pain in the *** to you, but they're worth it. He's a blunt guy as am I...so I sent him a blunt email...
It started by saying that I was going to remove his account but decided not to. Whether he took this as a threat or as something he didn't feel like dealing with, I don't know...what I do know is that I probably would have been bothered by it as well. Does this mean that I think that my reasoning or actions were wrong? No, but it does mean that I understand his viewpoint.
Contrary to popular belief, I actually like dissenting opinions...I'm the devil's advocate in almost every situation and think that dissent breeds ideas.
In short, Pete and I are talking via email. He left because he felt like he had to (I probably would have done the same in his shoes)...I did what I did because I felt like I had to. There's no reason for either of us to apologize, but I think we're both sorry about how things happened, if that makes sense. I would like him to come back, but I understand that only he can make that decision and the fact that we're talking does not really mean he will be. I, for one, hope he heads back this way...
__________________________
CENSORSHIP OF THE FORUMS
or "Why do we censor thee...let me count the reasons..."
I had parents complaining that they loved the site but simply couldn't justify visiting it with so much foul-mouthed behavior. Being a new parent myself, I understood this. I also had people that just didn't like it emailing me and complaining. These made me start thinking that maybe we should exclude a few words. Then there were a few posts in a short time that looked like tryouts to be a guest on the Dennis Miller Show (you know...where all the guests say F*** as many times as they can because they can) and I decided that maybe the filter would help.
A small group completely exploded over this violation of free speech...I won't even start on that topic, but suffice it to say that I like all of the Bill of Rights (excepting anything that might possibly allow Clinton to remain President) and agree that freedom of speech is vital...just not in every situation. This group also complained about the fact that valid words (like assess) were getting filtered, so I shut it down to specific words (like *** ) and asked that people not mess around with seeing what I hadn't filtered because it would just make the filter larger. This seemed to calm most of the dissenting opinions, but some still didn't like it.
We censor for one reason and one reason only...we were losing folks because of the language. My goal is to provide a community where you folks (and I) can get together and talk bikes...not where a specific few or those not offended by language could get together. To make any site a success, you have to find a common denominator. I think the "half-filter" is just that, as I have had 10x more thanks than complaints since installation of the "half-filter" -- this tells me it is doing some good.
The best way I can put this is the same way I've spoken with a few others in the past...you can still post, talk, chat, learn, etc. without cursing, but the person with the kids cannot visit if you do curse. That makes it a pretty easy choice to me.
Hope everyone understands this...
As for Yngve and his accusation that I am censoring threads, we'll address that below.
__________________________
MODERATION OF THE FORUMS
The forums have a moderator assigned to them...that is so that they can be moderated. Moderation is the act of removing things that are devoid of value and/or moving topics to the correct forums.
Since May, I have removed ~7 threads, shuffled (moved to a different forum) only 2 or 3 and combined quite a few threads by closing a topic. Most of the removed threads were empty, but I did delete one of Yngve's yesterday. The thread stated that Pete was banned and that everyone should send me an email regarding it. Since the information was wrong, that made the thread something that just started more trouble than it was worth. Additionally, we were already all talking about it on the forum, so the email would just have clogged my box.
I have locked 2 Dirty Pete threads today in an attempt to keep the topic on one thread, making it easier for all to read.
Moderation is a good thing which I have not spent enough time doing...I will be bringing on other moderators soon...I already have a few lined up.
__________________________
SITE CHANGES & UPGRADES
Okay...on to what started this mess anyway.
Everyone is anxious about the site rebuild and I can guarantee that I am more anxious than the rest of you. I'm dying over here...
I have programmers working on some specific upgrades I want done to the registration system and two other programs that will make the site much better. These changes are taking quite a bit longer than anticipated, but I'd rather have it late and correct than early and broken.
I have tried to keep registration closed during this time so that we would not have the extra people having to re-signup and complicate the process such that it slows it down. This obviously hasn't worked out wonderfully, but it's debatable as to whether it was actually a bad idea. This "additional delay theory" is also why I have been getting so frustrated...everytime someone emails me or wants me to re-explain something, it takes up time I could be using on the rebuild.
At any rate, I'm going to re-open registration for a day or two and email the folks that have been dying to get in...then I'll shut it again until this rebuild is complete.
To answer a few common questions:
->no, the delay has nothing to do with anything other than the rebuild
->no, the site will not cost you money when we're done
->yes, picture posting will be available
->yes, there will be a member database available
->yes, it will help me recoop some of our costs
->yes, there will be group purchasing options
__________________________
That's all folks! Did you make it this far?
Post any further questions and I'll be sure to post replies.
BigDog
(kiss)