Gitmo Camp Closed, Vacation Site Opened

[DaCol.]

Well, again, uninformed. The crime doesn't have to be commited on U.S. soil for a trial to be held here and the person inprisoned here. I'll make it easy and just post the first example that came to my head:

Manuel Noriega - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'am sorry , I guess I wasn't clear. THEY HAVE COMMITTED NO CRIME !

Noriega did two things :

1) He was actively sending Drugs into the US as a Supplyer and using Panamas Air Force to aid the covert flights.

2) He also, in a Speech in front of the Palace with machete in hand, DECLARED WAR ON THE US and sent troops to set up OFFENSIVE operations against US TROOPS at the Canal.

Hope I'am clear now, not confrontational

 

[dadofthree]

Everyone step back from the keyboards and take a deep breath. It's nice to live somewhere that we can share our ideas and thoughts with others without risk.

Again I want to thank everyone who has and serves so that I may enjoy these privileges.

 

[CTA_Busa_LE]

So, we should stop doing things the way Bush was doing them. Many of you say the way the Bush administration was gathering intelligence is wrong and those practices should be stopped.

Let's do a what if scenario here. What if Obama does stop all of these practices, anyone hedging bets on how long thereafter before we have another terrorist attack on US soil of the same or greater magnitude than 9/11?

There are things I may not have fully agreed with that the Bush admin did, but at the end of the day it kept us safe here at home. Is it worth a toss of the dice, worth risking thousands of lives, to see if it was just a hoax or if Bush's tactics actually made a difference? I would hate to see it, and would never wish for it to happen, but maybe an act of terrorism would help get some people to pull their heads out of their rectums and realize that we American's are targets and these people don't care about our constitution or any domestic rules which we may have. If they can play them against us it is a win for them. Give them an inch and the results won't be anything you can write a warm fuzzy story about.

 

[jaywoo]

Here's what I'm saying in a nutshell: The Constitution was written for a reason. Myself (and a lot of others) think that George Bush trampled on it with the patriot act and also what's been going on in Gitmo. The government shouldn't be able to decide when to follow the constitution and when it can be discarded. Something is going to be done with the prisoners down there, wether some of you like it or not. And it's about time. I'm sure wire taps are needed, but do them in accordance with the constitution. What's the big deal with that?

Oh, and it doesn't need to be a criminal (civilian) court, like was stated. The Military can and is handling it.

 

[dadofthree]

Here's what I'm saying in a nutshell: The Constitution was written for a reason. Myself (and a lot of others) think that George Bush trampled on it with the patriot act and also what's been going on in Gitmo. The government shouldn't be able to decide when to follow the constitution and when it can be discarded. Something is going to be done with the prisoners down there, wether some of you like it or not. And it's about time. I'm sure wire taps are needed, but do them in accordance with the constitution. What's the big deal with that?

Oh, and it doesn't need to be a criminal (civilian) court, like was stated. The Military can and is handling it.

Alrighty then, the president makes the rules I think that the president signs acts into law, those laws are written by congress and have to be passed by margins in both the congress and senate. In other words Democrats and Republicans wrote the patriot act and then President Bush signed it into law.

If in fact that law is unconstitutional the Supreme Court would have been involved.

Check out that constitution

 

[DaCol.]

Oh, and it doesn't need to be a criminal (civilian) court, like was stated. The Military can and is handling it.

That's the problem, when they are transfered onto US soil (Judicial Domain) the question then is, just what are they now. They're Civilians picked up on the Battlefield while fighting US Troops, not a reconized Military Army. So, the problem is that there are people (Congressmen included) who say they are allowed Legal Defense in their cases. This can go on and on, because no one has had this situation before. A Orgainzed Fighting Unit, who is World Wide, but does not repersent any country. So, who and what are they, under Conflict and Aggressive situations. Prisoners of War (then What War according to the Constitutional Definition) or are they Civilians, which under our military agreements with friendly Nations we are to send them back. Except their NATIONS have ALL rejected them as returnees. So, what do we do ? Obama might not like Gitmo, but I don't see or hear any real answers to the real questions. And today the News reported that he staid some of his Executive Orders AFTER getting his FIRST Presidential Briefing about these people. A Briefing he had never gotten before ! Interesting

 

[CTA_Busa_LE]

Except their NATIONS have ALL rejected them as returnees. So, what do we do ? Obama might not like Gitmo, but I don't see or hear any real answers to the real questions. And today the News reported that he staid some of his Executive Orders AFTER getting his FIRST Presidential Briefing about these people. A Briefing he had never gotten before ! Interesting

Maybe we can find them homes, kind of like foster children. We can place them in the homes of liberals to be rehabilitated and shown the err of their ways. I'm sure they really aren't bad people, just misunderstood. We can get them on assistance programs so they have money to spend and when they are fully ready to face the world as nice people maybe we can even find them a house of their own in some quiet little suburb.

As for the president getting his first presidential briefing about these people. I'm sure there were many things he didn't know. Until he took office he was on a need to know basis and somethings he didn't need to know until the time was right. I look for some back peddling as I don't believe he fully understood the situation and just what all was at stake here.

 

[dadofthree]

Maybe we can find them homes, kind of like foster children. We can place them in the homes of liberals to be rehabilitated and shown the err of their ways. I'm sure they really aren't bad people, just misunderstood. We can get them on assistance programs so they have money to spend and when they are fully ready to face the world as nice people maybe we can even find them a house of their own in some quiet little suburb.

As for the president getting his first presidential briefing about these people. I'm sure there were many things he didn't know. Until he took office he was on a need to know basis and somethings he didn't need to know until the time was right. I look for some back peddling as I don't believe he fully understood the situation and just what all was at stake here.

Hopefully they'll be sound decisions

 

[likeapuma]

I really don't keep up with the news all that much..skimmed through most of this thread to get some kind of idea. Like some others said, even if they close Gitmo and release SOME prisoners, I'd be willing to bet they'll keep the ones that they deem most dangerous and move them to some unknown place.

Saw some things about sending them back to Iraq for trial/sending them home....many of you don't know that Iraq DOES have a decent court system now, and it's getting better everyday. Most of the terrorists aren't even Iraqi citizens, but Iranian's and such that come over the border. I work closely with the courts and iraqi police here on a daily basis and see the way things work, I can tell you the court systems and police work here have improved over 100% in the past year I've been here.

I say keep the worst offenders and the master minds of terrorist cells in US custody, send the rest off to Iraqi prisons, where they'll wish they were back in Gitmo.

 

[Red05]

I still think some of guys are dancing around the question.

Assuming that even a couple of these detainees either have
very real imformation or very dangerous terrorists...Look across the room
or in mind to the ones you love...the ones you REALLY LOVE, whether it's
your kids, your sibling, your mom & dad...your wife or husband....
Are you willing to sacrifice their lives, one or maybe all (LOOK AT THEM)
sacrifice their lives forever for the ideal of not making the people who want
to KILL them...uncomfortable.

Look in the mirror and answer question honestly.

I don't need a mirror. The answer is obviously NO.

Assuming that even a couple of these detainees

There's the key. Obama wants to pinpoint these couple, insted of letting endless people sit in detainment without due process. Why create enemies out of the innocent ones? We have enough enemies as it is. Gitmo is an unethical holding tank that makes no sense.

Originally quoted by SilverSurfer

What other intpretation is there? If we justify the violation of basic human rights without due process then we go against everything that America stands for. Again I am not saying these guy are good guys; What I am saying is, if we are to be the leaders of the free world then we need to play above board. Otherwise what exactly are our troops fighting for?

Exactly. What are they fighting for? Fairness? Justice? They are fighting to maintain human quality as it should be, and I'm forever in debt to them. When I was young, a man didn't didn't turn to dirty tactics to win. That was not an option then nor should it be now. Obama has no intentions of letting war criminals go free. He just wants due process. If any of us were being held endlessly without knowledge of why, we would wish for the same. We would realize that we're innocent but understand that the other side doesn't know it yet. Obama want to get to the bottom of each case.

 

[mike1180]

Well we are into "profiling" here in Canada.

Be on the alert for a new sect of “terrorist waterfowl” that had gone astray (normal Canadian waterfowl are not this way). They are very big, can fly high and also fly along way.
Oh sure they said that they were just tourists on a fact finding mission visiting in Pakistan, but you know ……… now they are highly trained skilled flyers and traveling at will.

I understand that they are captured, they will heading to Guantanamo Bay for a little detention and observation. Maybe they could become dinner and not let loose to do other acts of terrorism.

A little levity was needed. IMO

 

[Mr Bogus]

I don't need a mirror. The answer is obviously NO.


There's the key. Obama wants to pinpoint these couple, insted of letting endless people sit in detainment without due process. Why create enemies out of the innocent ones? We have enough enemies as it is. Gitmo is an unethical holding tank that makes no sense. Did you know that due process was suspended in the past just for this reason by a now famous president. These people were not gathered from Chuckie Cheese pizza parlor, they are from battlefields and known terrorist safe houses...



Exactly. What are they fighting for? Fairness? Justice? They are fighting to maintain human quality as it should be, and I'm forever in debt to them.
IN all fairness, I think we are fighting for our survival, our enemies are saying death to the last infidel... yes? Has nothing to do with fairness or Justice, we are in a life or death issue here and we are all very fortunate to be living in such an isloated society as not to have to see what is really going on against us.

When I was young, a man didn't didn't turn to dirty tactics to win.
A war of annilation does not have rules..

That was not an option then nor should it be now. Obama has no intentions of letting war criminals go free. And you honestly believe that he is going to have any control over this? Have you seen the list of rescined exective orders and what is going on? they are keeping them and putting new names on them fricken fantastic political move.. research this..

He just wants due process.No he was just looking for political fodder to campaign on.. it is the same rehtoric that had his VP saying he was infinitly unqualified to be president during the campaign trail, now Bidden is his best buddy..

If any of us were being held endlessly without knowledge of why, we would wish for the same. You are arrested out of a known crack house with weapons, you SAY you do not know why you were arrested..

We would realize that we're innocent but understand that the other side doesn't know it yet. Obama want to get to the bottom of each case
We could not prosecute known murderers with lines of evidence 3 deep.. our system is so plugged up with people grabbing for power, notariety and political posturing that justice has fallen by the wayside. This is a war whether any liberal wants to admit it or not.. We either deal with the people wanting us dead now or we wait till there are twice as many that need exterminated.. Bottom of each case will never happen

 

[Dino]

I don't need a mirror. The answer is obviously NO.


There's the key. Obama wants to pinpoint these couple, insted of letting endless people sit in detainment without due process. Why create enemies out of the innocent ones? We have enough enemies as it is. Gitmo is an unethical holding tank that makes no sense. Did you know that due process was suspended in the past just for this reason by a now famous president. These people were not gathered from Chuckie Cheese pizza parlor, they are from battlefields and known terrorist safe houses...



Exactly. What are they fighting for? Fairness? Justice? They are fighting to maintain human quality as it should be, and I'm forever in debt to them.
IN all fairness, I think we are fighting for our survival, our enemies are saying death to the last infidel... yes? Has nothing to do with fairness or Justice, we are in a life or death issue here and we are all very fortunate to be living in such an isloated society as not to have to see what is really going on against us.

When I was young, a man didn't didn't turn to dirty tactics to win.
A war of annilation does not have rules..

That was not an option then nor should it be now. Obama has no intentions of letting war criminals go free. And you honestly believe that he is going to have any control over this? Have you seen the list of rescined exective orders and what is going on? they are keeping them and putting new names on them fricken fantastic political move.. research this..

He just wants due process.No he was just looking for political fodder to campaign on.. it is the same rehtoric that had his VP saying he was infinitly unqualified to be president during the campaign trail, now Bidden is his best buddy..

If any of us were being held endlessly without knowledge of why, we would wish for the same. You are arrested out of a known crack house with weapons, you SAY you do not know why you were arrested..

We would realize that we're innocent but understand that the other side doesn't know it yet. Obama want to get to the bottom of each case
We could not prosecute known murderers with lines of evidence 3 deep.. our system is so plugged up with people grabbing for power, notariety and political posturing that justice has fallen by the wayside. This is a war whether any liberal wants to admit it or not.. We either deal with the people wanting us dead now or we wait till there are twice as many that need exterminated.. Bottom of each case will never happen

My question stands: What law(s) have they broken? What do you charge them with?

Last I checked we were still a nation of laws.

 

[LA Busa]

What is this?
2688 days since a terrorist attack on our soil?

Whatever they have done to maintain that streak absolutely needs to continue!

I dont think they should have ever stuck the first 'detainee' at Gitmo... They should have shot the dirt bags when they first found them!

 

[dadofthree]

My question stands: What law(s) have they broken? What do you charge them with?

Last I checked we were still a nation of laws.

We are and that's the only reason that scum is still living

 

[dadofthree]

What is this?
2688 days since a terrorist attack on our soil?

Whatever they have done to maintain that streak absolutely needs to continue!

I dont think they should have ever stuck the first 'detainee' at Gitmo... They should have shot the dirt bags when they first found them!

I think that have gathered a great deal of information out of them, and I know you were joking, but that's just not Americas style.

 

[Mr Bogus]

My question stands: What law(s) have they broken? What do you charge them with?

Last I checked we were still a nation of laws.

oh so you think that people detained off a battle field should be afforded the same rights and privileges that an American Citizen has? So if we are at war and I shoot you or your neighbor dead and swear to keep doing so, I should be released because I was not mirandized?

Look your reference for debate is not very good. (soldiers are not civilians and so are not on the same playing field..) You seem to have an affinity for circular reference in your arguments just as a recently banned member also had (and they were equally illogical) ... wonder what the IP's were for you both..

 

[Dino]

oh so you think that people detained off a battle field should be afforded the same rights and privileges that an American Citizen has? So if we are at war and I shoot you or your neighbor dead and swear to keep doing so, I should be released because I was not mirandized?

Look your reference for debate is not very good. (soldiers are not civilians and so are not on the same playing field..) You seem to have an affinity for circular reference in your arguments just as a recently banned member also had (and they were equally illogical) ... wonder what the IP's were for you both..

All I am saying is if they are enemy combatants (soldiers) then they should be afforded the rights granted to enemy combatants. If they are civilians then they should be subject to the laws of the country in which they committed crimes. Which are they? Look through the thread and you will see different opinions.

Like I have said, I do not think these are good guys and should be punished if there is justification, but as Americans I also think we need to take the moral high-ground in our dealings with other human beings.

I am sorry if that upsets you to the point you need to personally attack me

 

[dadofthree]

All I am saying is if they are enemy combatants (soldiers) then they should be afforded the rights granted to enemy combatants. If they are civilians then they should be subject to the laws of the country in which they committed crimes. Which are they? Look through the thread and you will see different opinions.

Like I have said, I do not think these are good guys and should be punished if there is justification, but as Americans I also think we need to take the moral high-ground in our dealings with other human beings.

I am sorry if that upsets you to the point you need to personally attack me

Not an expert, from what I've heard the past administration defined them as enemy combatants. IMHO America has taken the high road, otherwise these humans would not exist.

 

[CTA_Busa_LE]

Not an expert, from what I've heard the past administration defined them as enemy combatants. IMHO America has taken the high road, otherwise these humans would not exist.

+1000