Frank Adams 1430 update

[OB_fastzx9]

Well, Frank is just a tad narrow-minded is all. There ARE other ways of making horsepower! Frank likes making horsepower with big motors, big heads, etc.

I'll just take a ZX-12..... ax the fuel injection for a set of lectrons, and squeeze the hell out of it. Heck for about $1500 I can have a 250 horse ride. Heck the with the change of a few jets, I can have more if I wanted. No R&D needed here!

 

[Frank Adams]

well i kinda figured there be a little mixed feelings out there. it's good to see all of them, good and not so good...

Kong: your right! i have no experience with the zx12 what so ever.
but i do have enough sence to be able to read the motor specs on them. it's all there in black & white. that motor is built to it's upper limits. and yes kawaski did a damn good job getting the hp out of it that they did.
aftermarket dollar for dollar, you'll never build that motor to do what you can with the "mighty busa".

Kawabuser: i haven't had any problems with the starter or starter gears. i expect there will be.
the only one i've had any experience with wasn't with the starter or the gears. the problems i see them having is in the "bosses" on the covers and the crank case. about the only thing i can see that you can do is weld some support welds around the weak area's.

GSXRTURBO1: i have talked to Paul Gast a number of times.
lectrons can be made to work for the street application it's just a little tricky. more like a head ache but it can be done.
if the Keihins had larger thottle bodies they would be the choice to go with. you can bore 41's out 2mm's but thats no where near the 48mm thottle bodies you already have on your bike now.

Turbo1300: "TI FORCE"(info coming)
orient express 1-800-645-6521
Skip Dowling

i've spoke with Skip Dowling and he's ready to give members from here a 10% discount!

Dirty Pete: your welcome! i'm ok with all opinions. they add "spice".

sherm: infalability? no failure here. just lost my patience on something that wasn't showing any promise. the 1430 motor can be built, i just can see were my or any body elses prodjects were showing the numbers!

hiabuser: i'm just as much in the dark as you are on the fuel injectors. my engine builder says that larger fuel injectors are not the answer for the busa. but i think that those and fuel pressure will play an important part in the days to come...

to everybody: my advice is always here, if i don't have it i'll try to get it.
......frank

[This message has been edited by frank adams (edited 30 November 1999).]

 

[Frank Adams]

fastzx9:

you do that...then come and see me!

i'll be ready to play your game come this spring. also remember "dollar for dollar"

are you game?

 

[OB_Yngve]

Frank.
I drive lectrons on the street and its MUCH more than a head ache. In fact its bloody hard work. But FUN
And if Paul ( Gast ) tell U otherwise just say hello to him from me and say; Yeah right....hehehe He knows who I am

By the way it looks like we are going to have the same engine next year....only I will not change valves, no need to do so.

 

[OB_Wronglane]

Frank,

I'm curious.How much horsepower is your engine builder looking to make and how fast do you think you will go?
Can you answer any of the following questions or is this info top secret?Who is building the motor?Who is porting the heads? How about flow numbers? Would you care to e-mail me flow numbers please?
Good luck with your bike as I hope it flies!

 

[OB_maui]

Frank, good strategy. Going back too strength and block stability.

Is the 4mm over block junk, or can you salvage it? Can you cement those blocks? Maybe not all the way up, then you sill get some cooling effect. Do you get bore shift? Could it be one of the factors in the gasket sealing? If you cement it to the top, you might be able to o-ring that block. Possibly an all out race only motor?

As far as stroking goes, I rate that as one of my least favorite ways to pick up power. It works, that's for sure. But there are mechanical disadvantages and limitations as well.

 

[Guest]

Frank,

I hope you recieved my Email.]

 

[Frank Adams]

maui: my 1430 block is toast. there is a pretty good size hole at the top between # 1 and 2 cyl.

also, i'm well into the 1360 prodject and like i said on the 1430, i'm not seeing enough "positive" to keep into it.

another thing i didn't mention before was no more than the time i had the bike running the cylinders were starting to show signs of being out of round.

Wronglane: seriously, i know who you are and what your up to.....

i'm asking you...do you really want to go any farther then where things are at now?

 

[OB_cbxchris]

Frank I wouldn`t sweat the stupid questions ....anyone knows flow #`s can be anything you want by just changing the levels on the flow bench just like the rear wheel dyno...without the proper person running it useless.

 

[OB_Wronglane]

Dear Frank,


"Wronglane: seriously, i know who you are and what your up to....."

Frank,you are making me smile.Thank you.Please enlighten myself and the members here.Who do you think I am,the suspense is killing me.I assure you,I am not he and that can be proven if you so,desire it.What do you think I am up to?In my post above,I asked you for information on your motor(flow numbers) because I love everything pertaining to racing and not for an underlying reason.You are making a very fast bike faster and I am trying to learn from you and other people like you.If it appeared to be a joke,it is not.


"i'm asking you...do you really want to go any farther then where things are at now?"

I really have no idea what you mean by this,so,my answer is "yes",let's go further.Maybe this will clear things up with a lot of members here and also at other sites on the net.

PS: I am still interested in the information requested earlier.Are you willing to share that with me?

Thanks Frank

 

[OB_Wronglane]

Cbxchris,

You are 100% correct. What question was stupid?

 

[OB_Kong]

Frank, do you think any of these modern power plants will ever be able to compete in the pro stock bike catagory? I hope so but I have my doubts. With the factory involment by Kawasaki and Suzuki I guess we shall see. What are your goals with the Suzuki motor?

 

[Frank Adams]

There are stages that should be gone through when your doing R&D. The stage i tried was the last one first. The top. There is nothing wrong with that but you need to at least understand that what your doing might not work. In my case it didn't....

I feel like my problems were in the head gasket.
When it blew up it took a hole out of the block between the number 1 & 2 cylinder.

Another thing i noticed about this combo was that it ran "too hot" for the street. It was ok as long as you weren't sitting for any length of time, like at a stop light. If i were going to try to do this combo again i'd do something with the fan, it seemed like as so as it came on it cooled down in no time. Redline water wetter is another option also that i could have used.

The way i feel now is, nobody is going to be able to build the 1430 the "right way" on the stock block. There are two other 1430's out there that haven't had the problems that i did but they are doing stuff with the compression thats only letting them see around 185rwhp. I'm thinking, if you can't build'em like a big motor, then why even mess with them?
I haven't seen or heard of any 1430's making any "good" hp.

Next on agenda for me is a 1360.And it's in the works now!

I don't want to discuss very much about it untill i'm close to being finished and it should ready for gainesville in the spring.

Here's something to think about...
This carpenter guy is making 212rwhp. This is a little bit of what he's doing from what i've heard.

1. 2mm(1360)
2. some porting
3. cams
4. modified stock exh
5. airbox mod (i think?)

Now, thats not much and he's still showing the numbers.

Here's some things to think about for additional hp on what he's doing with his setup.

1. larger valves
2. aftermarket pipe; like the "TI FORCE"
3. additional porting
4. fuel injection mod(larger injectors/fuel pressure)
5. 48mm lectrons(16hp just bolting them on)

Look at it this way, lectrons and a pipe on his combo should give you 230plus alone!

The over all way i see it is...
You can build alot more into your motor with a 1360 combonation and be alot more bullit proof!

To finish this off, you'll NEVER see that kind of "gains" on a zx-12r...


[This message has been edited by frank adams (edited 30 November 1999).]

[This message has been edited by frank adams (edited 30 November 1999).]

 

[OB_Kong]

Iam glad to know you are aready an expert on the ZX12 engine. Sounds like you should figure out the Zuk engine first before making that statement.

 

[OB_KawAbuser]

Frank have you experianced any problems with the starter or its associated gears?

Kong, Frank was/is a pioneer with the 1420 Busa motor and we should all be a little thankful he is sharing his unfortunate experiances.

Frank if you need special starter gears, email me.



[This message has been edited by KawAbuser (edited 28 November 1999).]

 

[OB_Kong]

I could feel more sympathic towards Frank if not for blanket statements on Zx12 engine hp levels. No one here can predict what levels can be reached on the 12. Boring out a engine is just one form of enhancment, ever heard of stroking?

 

[OB_GSXRTURBO1]

I think the EFI route is the only option for a street motor, as Lectron carbs have no intermediate circuit. They are a drag race only carb designed to work at idle and wide open throttle and nothing in-between. The one exception would be if you used the "power jet" option on these carbs which adds fuel making the carb more versatile. Call Paul Gast at FAST BY GAST before using these carbs on a street driven bike.
Frank, someone always has to pave the way for others in new applications. I'm sure you have helped and saved money for many others contemplating doing the bigger motor. Good luck with the +2mm, let us know the progress.

 

[OB_turbo1300]

Frank who make the Ti Force again?

 

[OB_Dirty Pete]

Thanks for the update Frank and yes, thanks for being straight about the frustrations of your pioneering work.

Pay no attention to Donkey Kong. He hasn't even got a bike in hand, let alone a wrench.

 

[sherm]

Don't jump Kong. He made an extremely rationale statement. You can respect Frank for his Hayabusa expertise, and still question his infalability on the ZX12.