Evolution, will you embrace it or condemn it?

[Guest]

Kindly go to this address:
http://www.motorcycledaily.com/dominance.html

Then pay special attention to #8

Then come back and give me your thoughts and opinions on big red and upcoming models in general.

 

[OB_Dr Busa]

It's only to be expected. There is always a market for the fastes bike around, even if you have no use for it.

 

[OB_VegasDude]

I think its great..............!

 

[Guest]

Sounds like a speculative Honda commercial. You can believe that Honda isn't the only one working hard on new models. We'll all benefit from the competition among the major players.

At least they got this right when they write:
"First of all, particularly in the U.S., buyers are fascinated by large displacement motorcycles"

[This message has been edited by Todd (edited 03 February 2000).]

 

[OB_Mr Bear]

Well Omega Man, you had to expect my 2 cents on this. I have a soft spot in my heart for Honda because the first two bikes I owned were Honda CB360T's back in high school. I bought the first one new before I even had a driver's license, over the objections of my parents. I never considered myself brand loyal to Honda, but most of my friends assumed I was, just because I owned one. When people start razzing you about owning something you like, you end up defending it. Those were the days of the GS1000E, the Z1-R, the XS-Eleven and the CBX. Honda was definitely in the game.

The current rumor bike which would fill #8 in the article is the CBX1600XX I talked about earlier. I believe it is strictly a paper bike at this point, but a 240 rwhp 1600cc transverse V-6 sportbike (500-525lbs dry weight) would fit just fine into that category. If any company could produce it, Honda could. They've done V-4 sportbikes. How hard would a V-6 be? Would I buy one? Hell yes.

 

[OB_KawAbuser]

Hmmmm..........

Whats wrong with a Hayabusa with severe weight reducton, Ohlins suspension, carbon wheels,PFM brakes, and a MC Xpress turbo.

430lb dry, 340hp.......Hmmm..............

 

[OB_KawAbuser]

CISCO in the UK you must earn your way up to a large displacement bike, everyone starts out over there on little bikes. Here in the US you can buy a 600 in the spring trade it in for a 12/1300 in the summer and crash in the fall.

The dollar has no brain in the US, sort of like gun control. It is not the bike/gun, it is the IDIOT behind it.

YOU CAN NOT MAKE STUPID PEOPLE SMART!

 

[Guest]

Buser, your crazy to mess with that engine. You'll have an epic bike as is, why turn it into a novelty? BTW, the drawings did not come thru. When I opened the images, they had the little X in the middle instead of the 3 color things?

 

[sherm]

Anyone who really needs a bike that can go 220 mph can get it by doing what KA suggests, and it would probably cost less than $20,000. The March 99 Cycle World reported on its Extreme Street contest to find the fastest streetable bike. The winner was a beat up Hahn Racecraft turbo GSXR1117. It did 224 mph and 8.82/170.84 in the 1/4.

If you really want to go that fast why wait and hope for a production street bike to come along? Just do it!! (That's if you really want to go that fast, me personally I just like to brag that my H can go 190 mph without ever having to prove it. Just whip out the mag tests.)

Of course if there was a production 220 mph bike, a few would be bought as first bikes. We'd have this novice with one week's riding experience coming at us on the two lane at 220 while trying to remember if the if the front brake was the right hand lever or the left.

 

[OB_CaveDweller]

More Power.... More Speed.... There is never enough, Keep it coming !


[This message has been edited by CaveDweller (edited 04 February 2000).]

 

[OB_THE MOTORHEAD]

when has honda been a real contender in the big ultrasport bike market?dominance is a big word for them to throw at people.just look at the 929 why the small displacement vs.R1 they have always been yhe power police in the bike market.why else do you barely beat out the competition if at all(see929vsR1.xx vs zx11,etc.and lots more examples things are getting tighter and harder to make lighter.hondas never realy made alot of power per cc.usualy its the weight that has helped them lately.they do have the technology to do it but do they have the balls?we shal see!

 

[Guest]

The bike you speak of especially that kind of weight would be more along the lines of the X-wing. A touring machine to smash BMW with breathtaking yet smooth accelleration and new levels of handling for a tourer.
For the category that the 12 and busa occupy it will take something quite a bit different. More like a 450lb cbr1200rr with a 450 dry weight and state of the art suspension, ram air efi and all the high tech bells and whistles. Thats the one to look for in this category.

 

[OB_Dirty Pete]

It's gonna happen Omega.

"Faster" is inevitable in everything our species does. Puters, women, post-op recovery, planes, foot racing, divorce, B-ball dribbling, bullets, bicycles, puberty, headache pills...

I just want to live long enough to ride a bike that goes 300 mph out of the box. And if they don't make one in the next 20 years while I've still got the nerve to pull the trigger, I'll just have to sell my house and women and get that beautiful silver Rolls-Royce turbine bike.

For the moment, Hon/Kaw/Suz are all frustratingly clumped into the 185-200 mph range. I'd like to see some bigger jumps soon...even bigger than the Hayabusa's 10 mph jump.

The next big breakthru bike is going to have to pull a displacement number and/or build in a reliable, streetworthy twin turbo like the car industry has done for years. 1600 cc sounds like a good leap, but it's going to have to be an all new motor...not some punched up cruiser diesel.

Weight's always the issue isn't it? That's why I'd like to see the Japs go the turbo route rather than the displacement route.

Call in the Germans...

But ferkrissakes don't let them near the beer fridge!

[This message has been edited by Dirty Pete (edited 04 February 2000).]

 

[OB_Cisco San Jose]

Is this mean that we have to get our pilots licence and be cleared by a airport tower everytime we start one of these new hi-preformance motorcycles!!!!!!!Ride safe.

 

[OB_Bob]

I always embrace better technology. It provides a new baseline for all to work from.
However, in my opinion the biggest risk that will keep this evolution from continuing will be our government.
How fast is fast enough is already being debated.
Join the AMA if any of you haven't to allow large numbers to join as one for biking rights.
Bob

 

[OB_pooh]

Mr Bear: You want a 1500cc V6 sportbike?? Wait until Norton solve their cashflow problems and launch the Nemesis, 1500 V8 and 280hp.

MCN have already ridden a very early prototype, this bike is for real and should be launched this year.

 

[OB_Mr Bear]

I'm not going to back down on this, Omega. I say the most compact powerplant for a sportbike in the Busa/ZX-12 category should be a transverse V-6. I think that X-wing thing has a longitudinally-mounted motor, A La BMW or Goldwing. That's bogus for sportbikes. You need a counter-rotating mass for longitudinally-mounted engines, and they always seem to be compromise machines for sport purposes.

I'm thinking of something along the lines of the Honda Interceptors or VFR's with two more cylinders. It seems like if it was done right, a V-6 would give more power per pound of engine weight than any other bike powerplant. It would also be narrow and compact, with some kind of downdraft intake arrangement. It could be a very tough motor for racing also, with a short crankshaft.

 

[OB_Mr Bear]

There are some radical new technologies around the corner for sportbike motors too. We know about things like pneumatic valves for Formula race cars. Well, the talked-about technology these days is electromagnetic valve systems. Imagine that...a valve train with no cams, springs or cam chains. it would (correction...WILL) have electro-magnetic actuators where the cam lobes are today.

The magnetic "receivers" will be on the valve stems. The actuators will be computer-controlled, which will give total variable valve timing and profile over the entire rev range. Forget about V-tec. Forget about 12,000 rpm redlines.

The limiting factor on revs for a piston engine today is valve springs. The bottom end of performance motors are very durable for high revs. The problem is that the springs lose their ability to act in their proper fashion at really high revs. They can't return the energy they store, and begin to move in wave-like fashion, like a slinkey. With small, powerful electromagnets replacing them, a 1,000cc four with a 20,000rpm redline is no big stretch. A 250 hp R-1 off the showroom floor? It's coming. Just wait.

Put that in a 1,500cc transverse V-6 sportbike (SPORT bike, not sport tourer), and you've got the bike I want.

 

[OB_redelk]

Sadly, it looks like we won't be seeing anything out of Norton for a while. The legal problems have gotten worse. The drawings, casts and the prototype have all be seized by the investors. The plant doors are locked.

[This message has been edited by redelk (edited 05 February 2000).]

 

[OB_THE MOTORHEAD]

2 stroke direct injection (the are getting this down behind close doors)forget the 4 stroke.