Dreaded Clutch knock...
- Thread starter Bumblebee
- Start date
Times sure have changed, the old Mercs were solid. I have been out of the industry for a while.
I guess the main difference today is we live in a throw away society, where engines and transmissions are no longer rebuilt. Perhaps the sealants have improved, during my time they failed after 10 years or more. Also the mating surfaces were perfect and back then if a sealant was used, next assembly/disassembly the surface has to be cleaned and ends up with scoring on the mating surfaces. We just considered that butcher mechanics.
About the depreciation of Mercedes and BMW here in the US, it is about the service costs and the technical complexity. Those vehicles are built for Europe and once the assembly goes somewhere else the quality goes South. The US service infrastructure for Benz is really a car that needs little to nothing for 100k miles and then it is throw away. Any work after that is ridiculous in price.
In Germany there are a number of diesel taxis running just fine with over a million miles on the odometer.
Personally I normally buy a five year old Merc with less than 60k miles for a song, go though it myself from A - Z and find the ride nicer than anything else new in the market.
Typically the German car market here in the US is aimed at the wealthy, who drive it until they are bored and then it sells for cheap dollar.
It is like buying a Porche in the Middle East, the royal family gets bored fast and the market is saturated with used vehicles in that league.
Sorry, was out working on the lawn... thankfully @sixpack577 has this answer covered...
3M makes Roloc discs in several different grits.
They easily clean aluminum gasket surfaces without damaging them.
No more razor blade gouges, I have delt with enough of those over the years too.
One of the best things to come along in years, and they save a tremendous amount of time.
Well, got the beast back together and it sounds like a new one...
I went to all the bike shops and hardware/automotive stores looking for some Amsol 10W40 and nobody had any at all...lots of 0W30 but not a liter of the other.. I finally got some Royal Purple 10W40 and put that in.
So far no leaks.....and I didn't use any sealant, just naked gasket...
Just look at the smile on the 'ol Bumblebee..
I went to all the bike shops and hardware/automotive stores looking for some Amsol 10W40 and nobody had any at all...lots of 0W30 but not a liter of the other.. I finally got some Royal Purple 10W40 and put that in.
So far no leaks.....and I didn't use any sealant, just naked gasket...
Just look at the smile on the 'ol Bumblebee..
And the grass looks great, lol
Just like you said, my brother tells me BMW bikes don't use gaskets just the silver-grey sealant and he has 200,000 miles on his with zero issues.
A former colleague of mine is big time into BMW cars and SUVs...he leases them and gets rid of them before the warranty is up as they are very problematic when they get a few miles on them he said. He normally gets the M class BMWs...they are pretty darned sharp.
I've got a pretty serious garden tractor to look after that...I cut a little more than an acre at my house and almost 2 acres at one of the senior ladies' we look after...and many times if one of my neighbors go away on a trip they ask me to cut their grass...
I spend more time on my tractor than my bike...
Rsv4s have a gasket on the clutch side but use 3bond(or similar) sealant on the stator/alternator side.Not sure why.
How many microns do you remove from the Aluminum in the process?
You can’t teach an old dog new tricks. The Hayabusa is an excellent piece of machinery. Should I lose the use of my own hands and someone uses a sealant on my bike, he will be shot.
One has to work on Ford, Chevy and Dodge to realize the quality that comes from Japan. The Hayabusa is an excellent example of fine engineering.
For what it is worth, Toyota remains top of the list for reliability, but they use a sealant on the timing chain front cover on the Prius. That is known to fail at around 200k miles with a repair cost close to $2,000.
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Maybe they figure the clutch cover will be removed more often?
I can tell, I was just thinking that a few minutes ago...riding season ending and the poor guy spends more time on the mower! lol
I'm no engineer, just a simple QC lab-tech in the auto industry(ac and fuel valves, cores, tpms).
I deal with microns...and no part of me is worried about removing such a small amount of aluminum from a gasket surface.
For that matter, 2 new gaskets can have a thickness variance greater than any amount of material potentially removed.
The gasket and/or sealant is going to fill in any pours in the aluminum as well.
I'm not concerned with more than 3 decimal places either, as the heat from my hand can skew the 4th.
I also worked as a mechanic years ago.
I know first hand that Japanese car quality has been better than the U.S for the most part(pros and cons to both).
Ultimately, I am riding a motorcycle...not going to Space.
If I ever build a Superbike or IndyCar engine...I would put a little more thought into it.
But once again, sealant by itself works, and many mfg's use it to save on costs.
It also takes a Long time to leak in most cases.
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So...you are complaining that the sealant only lasted 200k miles??
Most gaskets don't last that long, especially a timing cover.
AND
As far as sealant goes
FWIW
Years ago I checked the valves on a gen2, all in spec, no suprise.
Replaced valve cover with new oem Suzuki gasket, everything clean, torqued to spec, and in sequence/pattern.
I did an 03 gsxr600 a few months ago, exact same thing...and the valve covers on Both bikes leaked oil !!!
Especially at the cam plugs, but also rear near center.
Neither gasket was installed incorrectly, pinched or damaged in Any way.
So, for both, I removed them, cleaned the new gaskets again, and applied a small amount of sealant and torqued.
I let the sealant set up overnight.
Cranked and rode the bikes, and zero leaks.
So, good luck if your bike needs the engine opened and you're against sealant, because you just might have a leak you otherwise cannot stop.
And no, each valve cover had never been off before, and was disassembled cold.
I go by service manuals and do not cut corners.
As far as sealant goes
FWIW
Years ago I checked the valves on a gen2, all in spec, no suprise.
Replaced valve cover with new oem Suzuki gasket, everything clean, torqued to spec, and in sequence/pattern.
I did an 03 gsxr600 a few months ago, exact same thing...and the valve covers on Both bikes leaked oil !!!
Especially at the cam plugs, but also rear near center.
Neither gasket was installed incorrectly, pinched or damaged in Any way.
So, for both, I removed them, cleaned the new gaskets again, and applied a small amount of sealant and torqued.
I let the sealant set up overnight.
Cranked and rode the bikes, and zero leaks.
So, good luck if your bike needs the engine opened and you're against sealant, because you just might have a leak you otherwise cannot stop.
And no, each valve cover had never been off before, and was disassembled cold.
I go by service manuals and do not cut corners.
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@Bumblebee
Thank you!
You unknowingly brought this back to my attention yesterday when we were talking about sealant(it's only been ready for assembly for 2 weeks now)
So I got motivated after and Almost finished.
It ran like top...just leaked oil from Every gasket minus the center case(someone used sealant Incorrectly Everywhere during a rebuild some time in antiquity).
It's a freebie for a friend...for his friend...future favors, lol.
It's cruddy looking, but clean where it needs to be(normally I make sure they're spotless before they come apart).
Pay no mind to any uneven exterior lines of sealant too, lmao!
I have to finish before gsxr parts start showing up!
Well, I have a 5,7l V8 Tundra with 480k on the odo, no leaks, brakes, tires, serpentine belts, oil and filters.
Has not missed a beat, checked valve clearance once and needed nothing. I believe there are a few of them running around at a million miles.
So whatever you are riding must have really sh!tty gaskets.
If anything the early model tuono v4s had stator(as you lads call em) problems.The only reason I could foresee removing the covers is for valve adjustments which I've done myself 1500 miles ago.
I'm not riding anything with "really sh*tty gaskets".
Read it again and you'll see that.
I had a gen 1 i had to fix a few years ago that had this happen. I don't think it's just a matter of the years I think after awhile it's just possible for them to work loose and this can be the end result.
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