Anyone do roll-ons with their Gen I against a Gen II? How did you fare?

[Birdoprey]

Was wondering if any of you with a piped/geared Gen I Busa have done any 2nd gear to 4-5th gear roll-ons against any stk Gen II Busa's? If so, how did you fare?
I recently purchased a 03 with 26K miles on it. Was in pretty good shape but needed a few little things. Did'nt run worth a hoot down low when i got it. Found the intake valves on the center two cyls had no lash at all. Got those adjusted and the bike seems to run well. It had stk gearing so i dropped a tooth on the front sprocket. It has a brock Street meg exhaust and PCIIIR with correct map from Brock. The center two tubes on the header have been dented close to 1/2 closed, which i'm sure is hampering performance some though Brock says that dents under 1/2" do not hamper performance. Mine i believe are over 1/2".
Anyway, just running the bike through its paces down the road alone makes it hard to tell how my bike is running as compared to what a known good running bike should. Seems ok but i've been surprised before...

Met up with a co-worker that has a stone stk Gen II. Its been lowered and he has removed the cans(can't afford an exhaust and likes it louder...). Other than that its stone stk. It is a known good running bike as i've run it down the track a few times and it pulls the mph it should with me on it.

Maybe i'm expecting too much from a good running Gen I, but i was figuring that one setup like mine should keep up with a stk Gen II if it was running well. The pipe/PC and small airbox mod "should" put a good running Gen I around 170hp to the wheel. Stk Gen II's knock down around 170-175 give or take if i understand right(?). I figure gearing should help a good bit as well.
Well, i got a good look at his tail light...but it was not that bad. From the initial hit i jumped out on him 1 1/2 bike lengths(i mean immediatly) and it was the top of 4th gear before he came by me and by the middle of 5th gear he put a bike and 1/2 on me. I'm not sure if he is being super aggressive with the initial hit but he assured me he was. I even waited to watch his nose raise up before i pinned my throttle but the outcome was the same(i jumped out on him).
I'm not dissappointed at all. My airbox does not seal well at all to the frame(foam missing and such) and my air filter needs replacing so there "may" be slight gains by addressing these. Then there is the exhaust issue. I know the dents are hurting performance some, but how much i'm not sure. This will be addressed as soon as i can afford to.
BTW, we both weigh close to the same.
So...has anyone else done some roll-ons simmilarly setup? What was the outcome? Just curious.

 

[RACER_X]

well he's down on hp if he has no cans....

wont get into how crappy that sounds

 

[raydog]

Interesting comparo. Engine for engine (dyno comparison) the Gen II is significantly stronger (stock vrs stock). Then the variables come flooding in! My Gen I is a good 50 lbs. lighter than a Gen II, I run a full aftermarket exhaust, PC III, airbox mod/K&N, 43t rear spkt....A gen II has never pulled me on the big end nor in the mid range. Is that characteristic of all Gen I vrs Gen II comparisons? I have no idea.
Now if you want to talk handling and overall performance, either bike can be made to excell(suspension, brakes, etc.) BUT all else being equal, I personally believe one can make the Gen I lighter than similar attempts to a Gen II. Remember, you can do anything to either motors to surpass other Hayabusas, regardless of Gen I or Gen II.
Most people just don't modify their scooters past moderate efforts so they never realize a fully evolved Hayabusa, be it a I or II. Raydog

 

[Birdoprey]

"well he's down on hp if he has no cans....

wont get into how crappy that sounds "



Well, you would think so but his bike pulled good mph in the 1/8 and 1/4mi when i rode it. It may have a little to do with the air/altitude out here in West Texas. Elevation is right at 2000-2200ft but the DA was over 4000 ft when we lined up.
Back when i ran my 04 at the track alot, i tried it with and w/o the cans and i consistantly picked up 1-2mph in the 1/4mi with them removed. That bike was totally stk motor wise and had no PC.
Agreed on the sound. I think he just likes LOUD!

 

[OldMan]

No cans = straight pipes? Anyway, with the shape your gen1 bike seems to be In I would personally not push it too hard as it seems to have already been abused.

 

[mattd428]

i got spanked by a gen II it wasnt pretty

 

[Birdoprey]

Interesting comparo. Engine for engine (dyno comparison) the Gen II is significantly stronger (stock vrs stock). Then the variables come flooding in! My Gen I is a good 50 lbs. lighter than a Gen II, I run a full aftermarket exhaust, PC III, airbox mod/K&N, 43t rear spkt....A gen II has never pulled me on the big end nor in the mid range. Raydog

I'm aware of the difference between the Gen I and Gen II and understand where the extra power comes from. I did miss mentioning that my bike was prolly lighter due to the lighter exhaust(though he did ditch his cans). I know a stk Gen II will walk a stk Gen I

You said a Gen II has never pulled you on the big end nor in the mid range? Well, what DID happen? Did you pull them? Did ya'll run even? Your mods are similar to mine so you have VALUABLE info to share directly related to what i was asking! C'mon, man...DETAILS!

 

[Birdoprey]

No cans = straight pipes? Anyway, with the shape your gen1 bike seems to be In I would personally not push it too hard as it seems to have already been abused.

Internally, the motor looks great(cam and caps look great) as far as i've been into it. It does have some miles on it. If it will not hold up to what i do to it, then it needs to be fixed. The exhaust damage was due to the bike being lowered for a very short rider(previous owner). The rear is down with links and the front tubes have been pulled up AND internally shortened. The bike sits as low up front as a stk Busa with the front strapped for all its worth and mine is not strapped. The previous owner posed, he did not race so the exhaust prolly did'nt hamper him much.
No cans as in, the stk cans were unbolted from the stk header. Thats how he rides it around...

 

[Birdoprey]

i got spanked by a gen II it wasnt pretty

Was your bike stk or modded? The Gen II? Need detials...

 

[Rainbow7]

wont get into how crappy that sounds

Amen.

 

[Lamb busa]

Lamb has Full Brocks street smart, airbox mod, and only got 162 at the rear wheel, so 170 might be a bit liberal. Gen 2's are just faster than the gen1's. Thats nothing compared to the transmission. What a difference. The gen 1 is a noisy pig compared to the next generation. Lamb ain't selling though...no way!!

 

[Birdoprey]

Amen.

Thanks for the un helpful and off topic info guys...

 

[raydog]

I'm aware of the difference between the Gen I and Gen II and understand where the extra power comes from. I did miss mentioning that my bike was prolly lighter due to the lighter exhaust(though he did ditch his cans). I know a stk Gen II will walk a stk Gen I

You said a Gen II has never pulled you on the big end nor in the mid range? Well, what DID happen? Did you pull them? Did ya'll run even? Your mods are similar to mine so you have VALUABLE info to share directly related to what i was asking! C'mon, man...DETAILS!

Well, never a standing stop dragrace, always a roll on type event, sometimes when riding with friends in twisties (the mods I remember then was slip ons and retuned on the Gen II) and that particular time it was dead even through 3rd and most of 4th gear(I remember being pleased with my bike at the time cause I had no idea how it would stand up to any Gen II). As to other roll ons, they were at the track and I NEVER felt subordinate to ANY Gen II either driving hard onto the straights from a sweeper or speedshifting to high speed ON the actual straight itself.
I would add that (oh this otta cause a clammer!)in corner entries and corners themselves, I can't remember ever worrying about a Gen II staying tight with my Gen I. I know, I know, I've never met rocketmanhomeboy with his carbon fiber Gen II Moto GP bike. I'm just being honest with my memories!

BTW, on another note, a lot of Busa folks always tout Busas as the dominate straightaway bike, I'm sorry but more than a few GSX-R 1000's have pulled me on a straight, even when we both got a healthy drive from the apex.

Hope that gives you a little more info.....never apologize for that mighty Gen I! Raydog

 

[Birdoprey]

Lamb has Full Brocks street smart, airbox mod, and only got 162 at the rear wheel, so 170 might be a bit liberal. Gen 2's are just faster than the gen1's. Thats nothing compared to the transmission. What a difference. The gen 1 is a noisy pig compared to the next generation. Lamb ain't selling though...no way!!

On what type of dyno? Was the 162 STD or SAE? Lots of variables that can cause a bike to show low #'s. Was there a Gen II run on the same dyno on the same day? Bet it would have shown low as well unless your bike had an issue of some sorts.
I've had a gen I with box mod, pcIi, and full HMF dual high exhaust make 169 to the wheel. Had a stk Gen I make 157 rwhp with stk exhaust. Same bike pulled 144mph in the 1/4mi in good air. With a race weight of 700 lbs, it takes 162ish rwhp to pull that kinda mph. Backs up the dyne(Johnnycheese's dyno btw) with ram-air helping at the track.

Regardless, in general a gen II will make 10-15 more rwhp than a gen I on the same dyno/day with both in stk configuration. A gen I typically gains 10-14rwhp the wheels with a good pipe/tune. Puts them in the same ball park. The gen II gets the nod for tq in both cases though.

 

[Birdoprey]

Well, never a standing stop dragrace, always a roll on type event, sometimes when riding with friends in twisties (the mods I remember then was slip ons and retuned on the Gen II) and that particular time it was dead even through 3rd and most of 4th gear(I remember being pleased with my bike at the time cause I had no idea how it would stand up to any Gen II). As to other roll ons, they were at the track and I NEVER felt subordinate to ANY Gen II either driving hard onto the straights from a sweeper or speedshifting to high speed ON the actual straight itself.

Hope that gives you a little more info.....never apologize for that mighty Gen I! Raydog

That is helpful info, thanks. I was asking about roll-ons. Would have been a VERY different outcome if we had went from a dead stop. I would not have seen the gen II at all unless I looked back...

We went from a 2nd gear roll to mostly eliminate differences in rider skill(launching and dealing with wheelies).

 

[Lamb busa]

Hard to believe raydog didnt have anybody on a gen 2 hang with him on the track....NOT! Hey Doyle, I doubt anyone on a gen 1 hangs either buddy! That man can ride, ride, ride!!

As far as the 162 rear wheel hp. Im not an argumentative guy and I wont measure the size of my junk on the web. It was what it was and I'm happy with it. 162 hp is low?...yeah right!! Just 10 years ago it was industry changing numbers! 30 years ago it was a motogp bike! Thats how long Lambs been riding

 

[raydog]

Hard to believe raydog didnt have anybody on a gen 2 hang with him on the track....NOT! Hey Doyle, I doubt anyone on a gen 1 hangs either buddy! That man can ride, ride, ride!!

As far as the 162 rear wheel hp. Im not an argumentative guy and I wont measure the size of my junk on the web. It was what it was and I'm happy with it. 162 hp is low?...yeah right!! Just 10 years ago it was industry changing numbers! 30 years ago it was a motogp bike! Thats how long Lambs been riding

Thanks for that Lamb but I must say you yourself are an excellent rider and what makes it more impressive is that you are very humble about your skills. Doyle

 

[megawatt]

my gen 1 has not had a problem against any get 2 so far. I am sure there are many out there somewhere that would absolutely wax me.

But then again a gen 1 trubo with over 300 hp is a hand full ha ha

 

[DREW]

Was wondering if any of you with a piped/geared Gen I Busa have done any 2nd gear to 4-5th gear roll-ons against any stk Gen II Busa's? If so, how did you fare?
I recently purchased a 03 with 26K miles on it. Was in pretty good shape but needed a few little things. Did'nt run worth a hoot down low when i got it. Found the intake valves on the center two cyls had no lash at all. Got those adjusted and the bike seems to run well. It had stk gearing so i dropped a tooth on the front sprocket. It has a brock Street meg exhaust and PCIIIR with correct map from Brock. The center two tubes on the header have been dented close to 1/2 closed, which i'm sure is hampering performance some though Brock says that dents under 1/2" do not hamper performance. Mine i believe are over 1/2".
Anyway, just running the bike through its paces down the road alone makes it hard to tell how my bike is running as compared to what a known good running bike should. Seems ok but i've been surprised before...

Met up with a co-worker that has a stone stk Gen II. Its been lowered and he has removed the cans(can't afford an exhaust and likes it louder...). Other than that its stone stk. It is a known good running bike as i've run it down the track a few times and it pulls the mph it should with me on it.

Maybe i'm expecting too much from a good running Gen I, but i was figuring that one setup like mine should keep up with a stk Gen II if it was running well. The pipe/PC and small airbox mod "should" put a good running Gen I around 170hp to the wheel. Stk Gen II's knock down around 170-175 give or take if i understand right(?). I figure gearing should help a good bit as well.
Well, i got a good look at his tail light...but it was not that bad. From the initial hit i jumped out on him 1 1/2 bike lengths(i mean immediatly) and it was the top of 4th gear before he came by me and by the middle of 5th gear he put a bike and 1/2 on me. I'm not sure if he is being super aggressive with the initial hit but he assured me he was. I even waited to watch his nose raise up before i pinned my throttle but the outcome was the same(i jumped out on him).
I'm not dissappointed at all. My airbox does not seal well at all to the frame(foam missing and such) and my air filter needs replacing so there "may" be slight gains by addressing these. Then there is the exhaust issue. I know the dents are hurting performance some, but how much i'm not sure. This will be addressed as soon as i can afford to.
BTW, we both weigh close to the same.
So...has anyone else done some roll-ons simmilarly setup? What was the outcome? Just curious.

You may want to have the bike dyno tuned. The stock Brock map is a Drag racing map that is very rich. Makes great top end power. On the negative side it is not optimal for every day street use in my opinion. Mine was dynod by Smithers in K.C. and made 169 hp after tune with the same mods you have. Bike is much better overall with the custom map. Hope that helps.

 

[Birdoprey]

Hard to believe raydog didnt have anybody on a gen 2 hang with him on the track....NOT! Hey Doyle, I doubt anyone on a gen 1 hangs either buddy! That man can ride, ride, ride!!

As far as the 162 rear wheel hp. Im not an argumentative guy and I wont measure the size of my junk on the web. It was what it was and I'm happy with it. 162 hp is low?...yeah right!! Just 10 years ago it was industry changing numbers! 30 years ago it was a motogp bike! Thats how long Lambs been riding

I guess i did'nt realize what i was asking was so hard to understand. I must not have worded things right. I guess i should just ask and not divulge any other info or personal thoughts or reasons for thinking the way I do.

I'm not taking anything away from the Gen II(i would trade my Gen I for one in a heartbeat). I have my thoughts as to where they should stand given the mods or lack thereof and why. I'm not wanting info about your turbo bike, supercharged bike, nitroused bike, big motored or highly modified bike. Not asking how your bike handles or the outcome on a roadrace course or through the canyons, on the dragstrip or land speed racing.
Forget that i'm riding an old worn out piece of junk and my riding skill barely allows me to stay on the bike and not fall off. Forget i mentioned my co-workers bike had no cans as he must be a tone deaf idiot. Forget i mentioned any hp #'s as i most obviously have mental problems and reality issues and could not have any basis for saying such. Forget i said anything but this:

Has anyone with a piped Gen I done any roll-ons against a stk Gen II? If so, what specifically was done to the Gen I and what was the outcome???