ZX-12 vs. BUSA comparison soon!!

[OB_KawAbuser]

Angeel and Matt are seldom on the roads I ride so who cares?

Drag racing, point A to point B 1/4 mile apart has nothing to do with street riding.

Last time I looked the GS1100/1150 and Z1/KZ1000 motors are still a formidable contestant's in drag racing.(Look in a Schnitz cataloge)

Kawasaki has finally set the ZX12 onto the street, really do you think the bike that is ridden by Kawasaki's top dog has not been tweeked a little bit. It is a marketing game by two Japanese companies who sell motorcycles to street riders. Hey, it only took Kaw two years of work to nudge the Hayabusa envelope. 1300 vs 1200, 750 vs 600 in all cases the smaller motor is spinning its guts to compete with the larger motor.
You will see more miles out of a larger motor every time.

And all that is brought to light here is a little piece of pavement called a drag strip, I expect more than that for my money. Lets see what the ZX12 is all about as a motorcycle, and not judge it from a quick squirt down a short strip of pavement.

 

[Frank Adams]

everybody knows how the busa's stock clutch and stock gears are a joke for the dragstrip,well thats what ricky wants a piece of....he's looking for the biggest handicap he can find....

lets see if he wants to come challenge me to a race!

i'm waiting ricky.........

 

[OB_GSXRTURBO1]

Marty is a HUGE part of motorcycle drag racing. He is the one who started dragbike.com, cut him some slack.

 

[Frank Adams]

dragbike.com: marty, i stayed away from his calling because i know all he's going to say about his zx-12 and my bike is that mine is not stock and he wouldn't want any part of that with his 12.
but i'm sure he would invite my to run his shootout bike thats more along the lines of being in the same class. and i have no problem with that at all!
i'm duing everything i can do to get this bike to gainsville, and it's in noway going to be in that type of competative form.(running low 8's) but it will next spring and i'm looking forward to running against him. if his zx-12 were to be found modified,(and i believe it is) and he wanted to continue to brag about walking all over a busa, then bring him to me! i'll show him what he lacks about the busa, and thats respect. he could never find a combonation for his 12 that could get around a busa with the same combo. thats a race he'll never win.

this isn't no brock davidson song and dance,ricky.
the pyscho busa's ready for you!

[This message has been edited by frank adams (edited 19 October 1999).]

 

[OB_Earl]

Wonder what Kawasaki is saying about their corporate guy street racing their tricked up 12. (There is no way that bike will be the bike you can buy in the showrooms) It would seem to be bad corporate public relations to support or even allow Gadson to do this. I think Kawasaki has a statement on all ads about riding responsibly and to encourge one of their employees on a factory bike to street race, seems to be a little far-fetched. As Gadson says he has the only 12 that has been released to the public. Its like Kawasaki is saying they endorse what he is doing. Can they say lawsuit??

 

[OB_DRAGBIKE_dot_COM]

Frank, come on over to the site, and give him the call out!

I have removed the invitation for him to come over here, because I simply don't allow that on my site, but your more then welcome to join in on the party

-Marty

 

[OB_busa]

WHO IS THIS MARTY CHARACTER,THIS GUY ERASED MY POST.HE MUST BE A GIRLY MAN!

 

[OB_Earl]

Question----Does anybody know for sure that Gadson is street racing his 12 factory bike? As he gets his paycheck from Kawasaki and if he is really doing this, this will be the worst publicity for Kawasaki ever if the right people find out. I.e. his bosses. Hope he can make a lot of money with whatever he has left after he losses his contract and his bike.

 

[OB_busa]

he claims or someone is using his name says he blew by a couple of 1300's that were modified.you can find his message at dragbike.com under public forum,then go to zx12 by kawasaki and finally go to zx12 cometh and read!

 

[OB_fastzx9]

This has become a bit amusing! When hasn't a streetrace among comparable bikes not come down to the rider. 98% percent of all street races come down to which rider possesses the greater skills or knowledge of his machine and its' and his abilities. You say there is no replacement for displacement... well the replacement most of the time needs to be in the saddle! I've seen many a streetrace (most) come down to the rider vs. size or c.c.'s.

Frank, how about you and Rickey ride the same bike, at the same track, back-to back, and see how it all shakes out. I mean really, I would rather know I was the better rider than know the other guy has the skills on me and I needed all that extra displacement and horsepower to get around him. Obviously you can ride....., we all know he can.... settle the pissing contest that way. The mags, the public, the gossip, the streets, the racetrack.... all those places will give us the info we want on which of these bikes is supreme from the factory.

 

[OB_cbxchris]

Yes there still is no replacement for displacement...why do you think IHRA pro-stocks with 700 cubic inch engines are faster than Warren Johnson`s 500 inch motors and I can guarantee you that Warren`s engines have 10 times the research and money spent on them...because they`re bigger. Take the wieght to cubic inch off prostock bikes and how much you want to bet they have 1700 cc engines next year. Kawasaki screwed up...the busa with aftermarket parts will eat it alive for one basic reason....better head and its bigger with the potential to go much bigger in the cases....same problem with the ZX-11...the GSXR`s owned them due to engine size.

 

[OB_maui]

That was the best call on this whole episode, I don't think fastzx9 was saying "no replacement for displacement" wasn't true, just that "which rider possesses the greater skills" seems to make street racing a poor comparison at best. Weather I rode against guys on faster bikes, or drove against guys in faster cars. I almost always won. I (allegedly) ditched a police cruiser with a Toyota truck once. It had nothing to do with who had the better vehicle.

[This message has been edited by maui (edited 19 October 1999).]

 

[OB_Wronglane]

Earl,I don't think Ricky is actually "street racing,which means he is betting money which would be foolish on his part since he knows Kawasaki would greatly frown upon that.I think he is playing with friends on various bikes doing roll-ons and things of that sort......big deal,we all do that.At first I thought it was all hype about Ricky having the 12 and how he trounced other bikes with it, but I have seen him with it.His statement on dragbike.com to another response is scary.He said,"I assure you,the 12 is not that slow",referring to someone saying that all it had was 9.80's in it.Don't be shocked if he goes 9.50's with it in the future.For the people I have seen saying that the 12 will never beat the busa because of the extra 100cc's,they have no clue as to motors and where the power is made.Some of the replies made by dragracers,surprises me(I guess they don't build their own stuff).While it is true that a larger motor will generally make more torque,this does not mean it will be quicker,faster,or make more power.While bore and stroke play a role in this,along with camshaft selection,it is the cylinder head(port shape,velocity,cc,cfm not just at high lifts but also at low lifts) that dictates horsepower potential and where in the powerband it comes in at. To illustrate the cubic inch argument,I had a 3000#,1987 camaro street car with a small block(406 CI) that I used to street race.I used to race and destroy big blocks and always had their owners shaking their heads in disbelief as this was all motor.The cars best was 9.94 and was a consistant 10.0 car with a best 60" of 1.35 and consistant 1.38"s.I left the line at 1000 RPM's which shows that the motor made great low end torque for such a small motor.I tell you all this because a motor is a motor(bike or car) and the key to a fast and great running vehicle is someone that knows how to port a cylinder head with a flow bench....not throwing in big carbs,throttle bodies,and,or cams!The moral of all this is DO NOT underestimate a smaller motor.

 

[OB_maui]

I build my own stuff, and build for others too. There is not enough info given on any of these sites to draw conclusions from. But, I still support what fastzx9 said about rider skill. I also support what cbxchris said about displacement. I would like to see some dyno pulls on that ZX-12 before making any claim about volumetric efficiency. And yes, bigger displacement does not guarantee the win.

 

[OB_cbxchris]

A lot of what I`m going on also is from past history of GSXR and ZX engines. Probably in stock form the ZX is a faster engine. Kawasaki seems to not build as big of cases which limits cc size later and generally weaker tranny`s and cranks....which also are lighter. They also seem to use larger cams more compression and larger carbs and possibly in this case injectors. The real tell here is the stroke of the ZX12 compared to the busa which will limit cc size. I really do think that the ZX12 will be in stock form a faster bike..just like the ZX11 to GSXR. The advantage in the busa as in the GSXR will be a large cc difference probably end up being 200-300 cc`s....that`s a lot to over come. I would also venture to say that the busa head as like the GSXR will be as most of the suzuki products a far superior performance head with aftermarket parts. There also seems to be more willingness of the aftermarket companies to invest in parts for a suzuki than any other brand....except possibly the old Z-1. I sure wouldn`t want to bet against a modified busa ....its going to be fun to watch...

 

[OB_Kong]

I see crawfishing in action here. before it was said that no way can the ZX12 beat the great mighty Busa, now its no way can the ZX12 be moded enough to beat a moded Busa. I thought the title to fame and fortune was Pure stock against pure stock, the claim of fastest production bike is for pure stock only , not souped up which is meaningless in this title persuit. Talk your trash because thats all you have left in this game boys.

 

[OB_KawAbuser]

So Kong I see you are back here again with your ZX12 again.

Tell us how long have you been riding it, and how many Suzuki's have you blown off.

Sorry thats right there are no ZX12's out, well there is the finessed one the Gadson rides. Come back and spew when you have a real bike. Nothing will be known at least till spring and not untill. And you talk like you are knowing, the only thing you do know is you can out down your money and wait for one. That is all you Know for Sure!

 

[OB_Ranger]

blah blah blah, zx-12 is bs.
you tellin me that if your **** is an inch shorter(1200cc compared to 1300cc)that your better and faster, I feel bad for your girl -=x
Peace,
Ranger

 

[OB_Kong]

Yes, your right, I do have to wait a few months, but for the many years ahead of total domination it will be well worth it, and you bet Ill be back, with many more just like me. We will rule the streets and the world!

 

[OB_cbxchris]

You couldn`t rule a dark alley in NC street racing with a stock anything...dream on ...maybe you`ll have a busa wet dream ..it will be as close as you ever get to one.....I bet Star Racing will be running a Kawasaki next year because of the ZX12 ..its so good...NOT....