Wrapped headers today

[mcoyote]

I've read the various posts on this topic both here and on [that other hayabusa board] and decided what the heck. I get stuck in stop-n-go traffic a fair bit and hate shutting down the bike when the needle climbs too high, plus it regularly roasts my goodies in warm weather  

.

Anyway, judging from what I've experienced in only 85 degree weather things were only going to get much worse as the year progressed unless I did something (yeah, my mechanic already suggested that I just "get another bike." Not likely).

So, I realize the headers (which are powder-coated SS on this model year, btw) may rot out if things don't work out but it'll just be an excuse to put on a new full aftermarket exhaust system (

. better than a roasted engine, IMO).

To be specific, I used the ThermoTec "CoolIt" exhaust wrap that has been pre-coated with their black "Hi-Heat" stuff so it doesn't need to be coated for durability or dampened before application. The entire procedure took me most of a day because this was the first time I'd gotten under the fairings on this bike and also because there is hardly any clearance around the middle two header pipes -- I had to unbolt the radiator, horn, and oil cooler to get enough room to do the deed.

I'm hoping I re-secured them sufficiently, btw -- I don't have the torque values for those bolts but I gave them a good stout twist and used some credible thread locker (PermaTex Blue).

The wrap itself is quite abrasive and gives off a clound of glass-fiber looking stuff when you unwind it that will get into the folds of your skin (knuckles, joints, etc.) and cause some discomfort later. The SS clamps (sold separately, natch) used to hold the wrap in place seem sturdy but are truly a pain to clip together. The plus is that they do work in higher heat and low clearance situations, so that's that I suppose.

When I fired 'er up after putting things back together there was a smoky cloud from the wrap, as expected, but it didn't last more than five minutes and by the time the engine was fully warmed up it was gone. I'm going to take the bike out tomorrow and see if I can detect any improvement in the temperature control situtation. The bike does seem quieter and certainly isn't any worse -- it idled with the fan on once fully warmed up and the needle didn't go above the middle of the gague.

I also took some of the "ThermoShield" tape and covered the lower fairing backs with it to try and prevent burns from the newly displaced exhaust heat.

I'll keep everyone posted. Wish me luck

!

 

[SierraFlyer]

Mcoyote, perhaps you might consider a new mechanic instead? You have already gone beyond his expertise.......

You can quote me on this to your mechanic if you want.

(just Kidding - no offense intended yet)

I got my wrap from a neighbor - left overs from his truck. No clamps though. I used stainless wire wrapped around the pipe and twisted tight for about an inch of twist. then I pulled it flat against the pipe and wrapped the wires around the pipe again, Twisted again, pulled flat and then wrapped again, and so on down the pipe. It keeps everything tight and is very light weight. Getting it off later will require wire cutters. So it is there for life as far as I am concerned. I put it on the new exhaust before install and was easy. You must have had a bi%ch of a time with them on the bike?

So far I have had the fan come on once. It is a lot cooler.

 

[mcoyote]

You must have had a bi%ch of a time with them on the bike?

As a matter of fact, I did

. I also chickened out in that I didn't wan't all the heat showing up at the bottom of the fairings, so I only wrapped down past the oil cooler. I've read that this helps quite a bit -- we shall see what we shall see.

 

[Revlis]

You must have had a bi%ch of a time with them on the bike?

As a matter of fact, I did

. I also chickened out in that I didn't wan't all the heat showing up at the bottom of the fairings, so I only wrapped down past the oil cooler. I've read that this helps quite a bit -- we shall see what we shall see.

Mcoyote, Don't know if anyone siad it yet but Welcome.

Keep us posted if you will, I have been experiancing a great deal of heat soak as well. I have been thinking about doing what you did so I would be really interested to hear how it turns out.

Though from the sound of it I may just go ahead and remove the headers to wrap them.

I was also looking into some ceramic coating companies. It's supposed to work just as well or better than the wrap but it coasts a lot more.

Keeps us posted, I hope it works.

 

[SierraFlyer]

From experience it doesn't work as well as wrap. The coatings do keep much of the heat in but you still can't get near them when hot. You can hold your finger on the wrap when the headers are hot. Its the radiated heat that cooks the radiators and engine block. The convective heat rizes up into the tank area and cooks the airbox and cylinder head. As long as there is heat enough to burn you, then the radiators are soaking it up too. The raw pipes are probably 800-900 degrees (hot enough to melt solder). The coated pipes are about 300 degrees (guessing) and the wrapped pipes felt 110-120 degrees. 300 degrees will boil water and oil.

Perhaps the best solution is to coat the inside of the pipes and wrap the outside near the radiators. That would be the best of both worlds. The pipe would not get so heat stressed and the radiators would stay very cool. The only down side is the added weight. Maybe a pound or two?

 

[mcoyote]

...Perhaps the best solution is to coat the inside of the pipes and wrap the outside near the radiators. That would be the best of both worlds. The pipe would not get so heat stressed and the radiators would stay very cool. The only down side is the added weight. Maybe a pound or two?

Well, the first ride was ok -- seems like it works well enough. Not a WORLD of difference, but better (hey, what should I want for a $60 investment?). It's about 80 degrees here and I went to a parking lot and did a LOT of figure eights, slow rides, etc. to try and heat the bike up -- and that did it (whaddya know?)!

The coolant temperature got up to just touchinig the top of the centerline with the fan on, which seems to be an improvement. The lower fairing area is positively bathed in heat, however, and I am glad I wear real boots. The pipes running under the bike are white hot, which is normal for these conditions, and there appears to be no melting of the fairing material.

The headers are indeed cool enough to touch under these condtions -- I would estimate somewhere around 150degF. Believe you me, it took a lot of gumption to touch those things, btw

.

The bike also does not appear to be rattling apart -- my twisting and thread-locking has apparently kept the radiator and oil cooler where they belong

.

 

[rubbersidedown]

hey dudes...anything to stay cool in the heat right . There's room on the other side of the rad for a second fan(if yer not too worried about extra weight) . Hit yer local motorcycle wrecker an grab a skinny one that will fit. Wire it in on its own circuit with a toggle an' hit it anytime you want . Theres also an after market set of blades for the stock Busa fan thats suppose to improve things dramatically . I run a full titanium exhaust system it SEEMS to radiate less heat . But then again......
I

HEAVILY.....

 

[Tree]

Unless you have a stock exhaust I'd suggest calling the Mfg. of your headers and ask them about wrapping. These are thin wall tubing. Not like automotive headers. Acro says not to wrap their stainless headers. It can change the temper (hardness) and make them brittle. One wrong bump and you've cracked a pipe. I agree it would be nice to dissapate a little more heat but not at the expense of the pipes.

Just something to think about,

Steve

 

[rubbersidedown]

Unless you have a stock exhaust I'd suggest calling the Mfg. of your headers and ask them about wrapping.  These are thin wall tubing.  Not like automotive headers.  Acro says not to wrap their stainless headers.  It can change the temper (hardness) and make them brittle.  One wrong bump and you've cracked a pipe.  I agree it would be nice to dissapate a little more heat but not at the expense of the pipes.

Just something to think about,

Steve

Tree makes a good point here . The heat has to go somewhere . I'd also be worried about the oil . The heat is gonna try an escape at its earliest convenience , right below the oil pan . Might be throwing a few extra degrees right at yer oil/pan .
What I've done is moved my rad/oil cooler out an inch or 2 , not enuff to come in contact with the front fender on a harsh dive or wheelie drop down . Now I'm gonna make a custom front fairing inner .

anyways....have a good 1....

 

[mcoyote]

Unless you have a stock exhaust I'd suggest calling the Mfg. of your headers and ask them about wrapping.  These are thin wall tubing.  Not like automotive headers.  Acro says not to wrap their stainless headers.  It can change the temper (hardness) and make them brittle.  One wrong bump and you've cracked a pipe.  I agree it would be nice to dissapate a little more heat but not at the expense of the pipes.

Just something to think about,

Steve

Tree makes a good point here . The heat has to go somewhere . I'd also be worried about the oil  . The heat is gonna try an escape at its earliest convenience , right below the oil pan . Might be throwing a few extra degrees right at yer oil/pan .

Good points, of course. I use the stock headers and they seem pretty heavy -- if they are like other stockers I've dealt with they probably are. As for the oil pan, that's a good point of course, but the twin pipes were already running underneath there and I've isolated the oil cooler, so perhaps things won't be any worse or at least balance out.

I'll see if I can get ahold of an infrared thermometer and measure these items. If I was *smart* I would have done this first, but there we are...

 

[rubbersidedown]

I'll see if I can get ahold of an infrared thermometer and measure these items. If I was *smart* I would have done this first, but there we are...

Coyote man, that would have been such a cool(no pun intended) test . An infrared thermom you say . Yer one smart guy....I might haffta git me one , throw the stock stuff back on, an' do some testing .
"Curiosity killed the Cat".

 

[dezzy7]

I appreciate the info... I had posted a previous thread concerning the same issue.... Since then I've bought an additional fan that I'm going to install and am considering the thermal wrap as well... I post the details once the work is complete.

 

[SierraFlyer]

It is true that the extra heat may change the thin wall temper and eventually crack it. But that is a cheaper failure than a warped head will cost. Boiling over will fry the engine. Replacement pipes (if they ever do fail) will cost not more than $600 for the whole system without the can. My Akras come apart into about 7 individual pipes and can probably be bought individually?

 

[FomerBearGoneBad]

I'd have to whole-heartedly agree with Sierra. Sometimes engineers even INTENTIONALLY install things with the INTENTION that it will be the first-line sacrificial piece in order to protect more critical/expensive systems elsewhere. I'll gladly roast my pipes, if need be, to avoid cooking an engine...

If I crack a pipe, I can hear it and shut down in plenty of time to avoid burning a valve. If I cook an engine, it's "GAME OVER" by the time it becomes apparent, the heads are already warped, or worse...

 

[NotABusa]

Any updates on this? Since reading this I've been toying with wrapping the header on my Air-cooled bike in hopes of helping keep temps down.

 

[SierraFlyer]

NAB - You have the best avatar! I laugh my a$$ off every time I see it. Where did it come from?

No change on the pipes so far. the pipe above the wrap (the curved part into the head) is blue in color. That is normal for Stainless. No pipe failure so far (700 miles only). This weekend will add another 1200 miles or so and it will be in much higher heat (95-100+ degrees). That will be the test to see if the wrap is worth it. Every year at Laguna Seca it is hot at the track and I get close to red line on temp. I'll post as soon as I get back on the temperature drop, if any, and how the bike behaves with this mod.

 

[NotABusa]

I found the avatar already uploaded on the site.  I didn't want to be the geek with no pic, so I chose that one cuz I didnt' see it being used already.  

I have decided I'm going to wrap my headers on the old Air Cooled FJ.  Theoretically I should pick up a little power as the higher temps should increase exhaust velocity and help the gasses escape faster, but it probably won't be much.  I have a new stainless header in storage that I have to get a new midpipe for that I'll wrap, and I'll wrap as much of the midpipe as is hidden by the chin fairing to help keep under engine temps down too.  Then it's just Hot air going out the Kerker (yes, I said Kerker) into the atmosphere and hopefully onto the face of the guy I'm dusting.  

Okay, Hijack on [hijack] I've been tossing around the idea of buying a transmission cooler, like from Becool or whatever brand it is that has the fan already on it, and replacing my stock oil cooler with that, then running the fan to an electric thermostat so it switches on if the engine gets too hot.  Any ideas on that? [/hijack]

 

[SierraFlyer]

OK the wrap works! Like many of us, I was at Laguna Seca this weekend. Rode all over northern California. That includes the Central Valley at about 100 degrees. The temp gauge never reached the middle line on the gauge.

At the track we were all leaving after the races and got stuck in a long line of cars and bikes (Couldn't split lanes due to cops on the corners). So I sat there and held the RPMs up to 4K to heat the bike up. Ambient temp was into the low to mid 90's. the needle started to climb but did not go over the middle gauge line. That was as high as it ever got the entire weekend. I would guess the temp would rise in proportion to the outside temperature if it were to rise. So if I was stuck in traffic in 112 degree air, as opposed to 93-95 degree air, the coolant would rise by about 20 degrees. I am pretty sure that would only be about half way between the middle gauge line and the bottom of the red line.

These results are much different than last year without the tape when I almost boiled over in slightly hotter weather. I recommend the header tape fully.

 

[mcoyote]

OK the wrap works!  Like many of us, I was at Laguna Seca this weekend. Rode all over northern California. That includes the Central Valley at about 100 degrees. The temp gauge never reached the middle line on the gauge....

Oddly enough, we haven't had a lot of hot days here even though it's, like, July 'n stuff. I haven't had a chance to REALLY get stuck in traffic for a long period of time but I'm not too upset about that. Have put on about 1000mi since wrapping the headers, however.

I would say there's an improvement, though I still have to keep my feet away from the bottom end at stops (stands to reason). The temp gague has risen to just over the middle line, but that's it. I'm no longer roasting my vittles, though, that's for sure.