Worse evils than the Busa as a 1st bike....

givinr

Registered
Hello all, I am new to this board and this is my first post. I must say this is a great website, and I have spent many hours just browsing through all the posts. One topic that I find to be common, is steering uninitiated riders away from considering a Busa as their first machine. Well on this topic, I have top say I disagree with at opinion.

First off, I have about 12 years of riding under my belt, and my first bike was a 89 GSXR 750. At the time as most of you know, that was one of the baddest machines money could buy, but by todays standards, any 600 would destroy it. I chose to take a riding course back then and 2 things my instructor said have always stuck in my mind:

1: it only goes as fast as your right wrist lets it
2: pretend you are invisible all the time.

FYI, I am in Canada so my speeds will be in K/ph...sorry.

I dont care what you buy nowadays, gixxer 600, R6, any of the litre bikes, they are all running 100 K/PH in the mid 3's, or better and most are capable of 270+ kph . The biggest laugh I get is when I see guys buying the new Gixxer 750, thinking that this machine in some how safer than a busa or any litre bike. A 2004 GSXR 750, will outrun or keep up with a 99 R1 or the previous gen Gixxer 1, worse yet these things are feather light and generate a false sense of confidence in corners. Yes a Busa is capable of 300 K/ph but that is the only element of the bike I would say makes in any more of a danger than the smaller 600's, 750's, and 1000's. Any "experienced" rider would tell you that the busa is a very forgiving and easy to ride motorcycle. Pulling the front wheel up on a busa is a task in its own, requiring a concerted effort, and it is almost laughable seeing guys do it. The balance point on the bike is so high, that by the time you are only half way there you think the thing is going over backwards, so natural instincts will make most new riders kill the throttle long before they are in danger. Where as the shorter wheelbase stuff will bite you....fast!! Also, I find the lghter stuff tends to encourage guys to stunt more. The Hayabusa reputation alone will make most new riders respect it, and the ones that wont.... it doesn't matter what you put them on, they are bound to be a statistic any way. Going down at 299 on a gixxer 750 or 300 on a busa, I really dont think it makes much of a difference. As for the size and weight?? go back 15 years, and a busa would be no heavier than the 750's of those days. I guess my opinion on the whole issue is, is it really going to matter if you hand a guy a loaded .357 magnum as opposed to a .44 magnum?? No matter what, if he points it at his head and pulls the trigger the end result ultimately will be the same.

I figured since I went off on my reponsible riding and saftey tirade, I might as well post a pic of me pulling one up in a T-shirt at the bottom.....lol.  
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I personally think if you like motorcycles you will eventually end up on a hayabusa, why pospone the inevitable
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givinr, I don't think you will find many people on this board that disagree with any of what you said. The Busa is forgiving and even those that go to one of the litre bikes are cautioned about getting themselves in a more hairy situation quicker that on the Busa. The biggest thing that folks should understand is that they control there right wrist and must accept the responsibility. While an accident at high speed is probably the same on any bike, the cost of repair can be substantially higher on the Busa especially with all the aftermarket products available.

Anyway, welcome to the board and we look forward to more pics of your bike and the passing on of your riding experience. It is a great place to be and I'm sure you will enjoy it.
 
Actually more in response to the title of your thread, I would say YES today there are a few bikes out there that IMHO could be MUCH worse for a new rider than a Busa. WTF? Yeah here me out.

Sure the Busa has a crapload of power, but it also has a lot of weight, a lot of built in stability, Very neutral handling, and a relatively gentle power delivery (Sounds Nutters I know).

So I actually feel that todays "Wonder Liters" would be worse for an inexperianced rider. Razor sharp handling, immense power, combined with super light weight? A recipe for disaster that is more likely to result in Hamburger helper than a Busa. It's easy to get in over your head on a Busa no doubt, but when you do, the neutral and forgiving nature of the beast might just be the difference between learning experiance and Ambulance ride.

Your point about wheelies is well taken also. Though it has been my experiance that FWO in 1st and second will result in a natural lofting at about 6k or so that can be substantial and Fast all on it's own if you keep your wrist in it. And as you demonstrate above, just a quick concerted twist of the wrist will have it up no problem, though nothing like the little liter bikes. Or hell even an old ZX-9R for that matter.

It does lead to an interesting question though, what do you recommend for the new guys? Back in 92 the answer for me was a Kat 750 (which shared a Motor with your GSXR) but what are we supposed to recommend now. I used to tell ALL the new guys interested in a sportbike, when they would ask "What Bike should I start on?" to get a CBR600F2. It was big enough to NOT be boring in a few months, had "Do it all Ergos", sharp looks, and was a stable well tested platform. Now though, even the 600's are getting to be too "Racey" if you will, 350 LBS, sharp steering angles, harsh ergonomics, and 100+ HP.... About the only REAL good starter bikes out there now are unfaired or a Katana IMO.

So now when a newbie asks the question, I find myself a little lost and I allways come back to the SV650. Good handling, Full Size, and a Huge aftermarket. Otherwise I try to urge folks towards a used Katana, or an old Honda CBR600... Damn near everything new and current is just a little too crazy.
 
I've had very good experiences with my SV650. Very easy to ride, yet enough power to have tons of fun. You can do burnouts, wheelies, stoppies, etc. relatively easy, yet it's very easily controlled.
 
Ok here is the coaches .02. Take it if you want it or leave it.
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I get that question every single class "What is a good starter bike?". I like givinr's instructor believe that you control the power and ride like your invisible. I should actually get every class to recite this every time they mount a bike.

So when they ask me that all so frequent questions, "What bike is right for me?" I always reply with a simple answer.

"What do you fell comfortable on" The one bike you sit on and just feel at home, that's the bike for you. I tell them, don't look at the size, the make, or the price (if possible). Sit on everything and eventually you will find the one for you.

The rider controls the power, you can go splat on a 250 just like you can go splat on a 1300. Its up to the rider to be responsible. We cannot control there level of responsibility, we can only give them the skills to properly evaluate there riding habits. I never discourage an individual from riding a bike that they want. I just pray they respect the machine and ride within there limits. Like it was said before, if they don't respect the busa, they probably wont respect anything they ride and no matter what you do, they can still end up a statistic.

For those of us who are giving out advice on what bike to ride, remember, the bike that you think is great (as a starter bike or not) may not be great for that individual. Its better to drive them around and sit every bike they can, rather then tell them what they should get. Let them decide, this will add to there enjoyment of riding and comfort level of riding. Your perfect bike just may not be there. I have seen it tons of times, students get a bike that there spouse or friend tells them is perfect and they end up trading it in or hating there first ride.

Again just my .02
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I will not comment on the wheelie with out all the proper safety gear...:p



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Opinions, opinions and more opinions. I agree totally w/ the new liter bikes being less user friendly than the Busa or 12r. I also agree that the bike will only go as fast as the wrist allows. However, we've all been in situations when the Busa has played a trick on us that either our riding experience prevented us from going down or decreased the potential insult. Siimply put the newer the bike and higher the cc the less forgiving the bike is (I'm talking able sport here). I have guys all the time say I want a 1000 or Busa and I alway advise them to go smaller, cheaper and used. like a $3000 bike that you can drop a few times and get in good on the learning curve. Those that accept the advice are ready to upgrade to bigger in 6 months or so pending how many miles they've logged. I usually for safety and rider style reasons like to ride in the back of the pack. Here I observe new riders who started on something smaller and those who didn't. While I also know it depends on the individual also, I've noticed guys starting on 600s have matured more quickly than those starting on the big boys. Man, even today's 600's (r6, 600rr, zx636, gixxer600) aren't very good starter bikes. Just like givenr stated they have more hp/torque than the late model 750s and 900rr also. Now again I know there are exceptions to the rule, but I can only speak on what I've witnessed. I will never agree with the "buy what you want and learn to drive it" statement. Motorcycles are not like cages, bicycles or quads. You can't just hit the brakes when you get in a pickle. This is my .02 and my .02 only. Peace.

BD
 
I agree with you to an extent BD, any mistake on any motorcycle can be unforgiving. It boils down to training and what kind of riding attitude you have. If they are inexperianced riders, they will have the same problems on a 500 as they would on a 1000. Statisically most motorcycle accidents (where there is no other traffic involved) happens in curves. It doesnt matter what size bike you are on, when you grab a handfull of brake on a corner or stare at the wall and hit it. Other accidents happen when riders dont know how to stop quickly or swerve. So learning these safety skills can save your hide. Learn safety first then jump on your bike of choice. Its the riders that just jump on a new busa and learn from a friend to ride, who never took a MSF course, and belive they know it all.

Another thing is when people practice there riding skills on a bike that they plan on keeping they become better riders. As we all know each bike is different. So if you practice on a little 500 then move up to a busa, you are not going to be familiar with it. But if you constantly practice on the bigger bike, guess what, there is no new learning involved. You know how your bike reacts.

So IMHO, buy what your hear desires and perfect that bike. But before you ever get on a motorcycle for the first time, please take a safety course. If you if you think you know it all, you can always pick something up you may not have known.
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Come think about it, this is one of those debates that can go on forever. Like if you should drive with your tailgate up or down in the truck.
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In the UK we have very low barriers that you pass underneath in your car after depositing your rubbish at one of the council-run desposal facilities. They're designed to allow cars to pass underneath, and to keep trucks out. Top Tip: don't forget to close your tailgate/bootlid after rubbish disposal... it messes up paintwork and gets expensive! (sorry, no pics)

Anyway, back to Busa being suitable as a first bike. I have to say no unless your income is high, especially for young guys who've had their fear nerve removed. I shall pick up my Busa in 2 days (on Saturday - yippee!) and after that I'll be able to post with the experience of riding one.

My first bike was a Suzuki GSX600F (sports/tourer type), which cost me £2000. I rode that for 1000 miles and then had a spill at a roundabout on a slippery December evening. The repair bill was a very cheap paint job and a new wing mirror.

I suppose the point I'm trying to make is, without the benefit of experience, you don't really know how to react in abnormal situations. If you end up dropping the bike, a cheapy hack to get some experience on won't cost too much if you have a low-speed spill. A Hayabusa as a first bike would be an insurance claim most likely, and the finances of that might put an end to riding.

Anyway, my story is that I owned the GSX600F for 8 months, and bought a brand new at the time 1999 Yamaha R6 (I had ordered it in advance of the 1999 first models). So I was riding the GSX600F and learning the ropes, and then to the R6, the performance of which was incredible in comparison. The R6 certainly has its own character. After 700 miles, I accelerated hard over painted white lines and the steering shook so hard I thought I was coming off, but I like to think that my then 10 or 11 months of riding (and reading and studying motorcycle tuition books from the police roadcraft series and also Keith Code's cornering books) enabled me to deal with that situation and get through it. If the R6 had been my first bike, I might have jammed on the brakes or done some sudden throttle roll-off that could have easily thrown me off.

I have to say, it all comes down to the novice individual, whether the novice has the self restraint to ride to his own levels, or does he get sucked into something out of his depth when faster riders go past.

Lots of variables, points of view, and an endless discussion I suspect.

I just believe that it's probably best to buy something that doesn't really matter if you drop it on a corner, or even pushing it out of the garage. The chances of doing one of those are pretty high as a novice, and so for myself, I would have to recommend buying a cheapy for a few months and see how it goes.

Anyway it is just my opinion, I guess there are no right answers, but moving to the Hayabusa would give you something to look forward to later on. ;-)

Mike
 
I agree with you to an extent BD, any mistake on any motorcycle can be unforgiving. It boils down to training and what kind of riding attitude you have. If they are inexperianced riders, they will have the same problems on a 500 as they would on a 1000. Statisically most motorcycle accidents (where there is no other traffic involved) happens in curves. It doesnt matter what size bike you are on, when you grab a handfull of brake on a corner or stare at the wall and hit it. Other accidents happen when riders dont know how to stop quickly or swerve. So learning these safety skills can save your hide. Learn safety first then jump on your bike of choice. Its the riders that just jump on a new busa and learn from a friend to ride, who never took a MSF course, and belive they know it all.

Another thing is when people practice there riding skills on a bike that they plan on keeping they become better riders. As we all know each bike is different. So if you practice on a little 500 then move up to a busa, you are not going to be familiar with it. But if you constantly practice on the bigger bike, guess what, there is no new learning involved. You know how your bike reacts.

So IMHO, buy what your hear desires and perfect that bike. But before you ever get on a motorcycle for the first time, please take a safety course. If you if you think you know it all, you can always pick something up you may not have known.
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I believe with what you are saying about buy the bike ytou want. BUT, I do see a comment here that I feel is wrong. When I first rode it was on a friends zx7. I rode enough around his yard to get comfortable with it then took to the street. Keep in mind this is WAY out in the country so there were no traffic worries here. He followed me on his R1 and we rode for a couple hours. I fell in love with the sportbike right then and there and made up my mind I was gonna go get one. I left his house and went to the beareau and got my temp permit. Once I had that I bought a busa that week. I have since gotten my license and took the license test on the busa and passed no problem. I have 11,000 miles on it and LOVE the bike. I have no problem with it whatsoever so when someone asks me about buying the busa I tell them the truth. It was my first bike and I am so glad I didn't mess around with something else before I got it. The only time I have even told someone not to get one was for size reasons. This dude was like 5'6 and 160 lbs and I just advised him that was a LOT of bike to handle. But you can't say that someone who has never taken MSF and learned to ride from a friend knows it all. I got on the busa, learned slow, always kept safety in mind, but most of all I had and STILL DO have a ton of respect for this bike. The second you DON'T respect it is when it will kill you.
 
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