newb
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Please explain how it is misguided?
Why rear brakes only?
- Thread starter M3Busa
- Start date
Please explain how it is misguided?
Trent
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Some talk of Harleys so I must say that there is a super fun factor of skidding to a stop on an old Hog. Its loud and it grabs attention! I have done this for fun many times, best done with a buddy for effect and amplification at moderate speeds in a straight line. I haven't tried it on the Busa and I am not sure I would unless I was just about to swap new tires on. In this, the busa with its unlinked, non-ABS brake system is an expert level bike. Sure its easy to ride, well balanced, comfy...but the possibilities are there to make grave errors...emphasis on the word grave. But for the initiated its nice to be in control of the brakes of each wheel, as it should be. IMHO
rudeboy109
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I use them both, the 60/40 way, 60 front
Matte_Black
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Why put rear brakes on bikes then? Were the manufacturers of these motorcycles dumb? Suzuki, Honda, yamaha, kawasaki, triumph, BMW, ktm, ducati, aprillia, mv agusta why are they still making these bikes with rear brakes? It's because it serves a purpose, what's that purpose you ask? It's simple to stop. I use it sometimes 60/40 sometimes 80/20 and sometimes 100 rear or front but I use it, why put it on the bike if it's not to be used.......
The day all the top manufacturers stop installing rear brakes on these bike is the day I'll stop using the rear brake
It's idiotic to think that the front brake can safely be used in all situations, maybe must but not all.
Remember the front brake provides about three-quarters of your stopping power. It's safe to use in quick stops when you apply it properly but jamming the front brake hard on a slippery surface can be hazardous.
I will end by saying to each his own, I hope we're all safe whatever our methods are
The day all the top manufacturers stop installing rear brakes on these bike is the day I'll stop using the rear brake
It's idiotic to think that the front brake can safely be used in all situations, maybe must but not all.
Remember the front brake provides about three-quarters of your stopping power. It's safe to use in quick stops when you apply it properly but jamming the front brake hard on a slippery surface can be hazardous.
I will end by saying to each his own, I hope we're all safe whatever our methods are
Rainbow7
Registered
2/3, actually.
The rear brake has many uses that are beneficial to every rider especially on a cruiser. However, under hard braking on dry pavement or emergency stops on a sport bike the rear brake is your enemy! It can and many times does cause loss of control quicker than you can spit. I myself have been a victim of the rear brake high side and I have had a front row seat while witnessing a number of high sides which were a direct result of the rear brake at the wrong time.
This past season I had quite an experience with a poor bloke who highsided himself with the rear brake. I had followed this rider for a couple of laps after noticing his right foot continuously squeezed the brake in every brake zone. Then down the back straight he went in a little deeper than previous laps. I am two bike lengths behind as he applied the front brake pretty aggressively. This time when he touched the rear brake, within the blink of an eye he was highsided into orbit. I followed him off the track while watching him tumble to a stop. He bounced up immediately but I could tell he had his bell rung. After a couple minutes when he got his helmet off I ask him "What Happened"! He says, "I'm not sure, I think someone hit me". He had not a clue as to why he crashed. Which made me wonder how many street riders have committed the same sin and never knew what happened?
I see tons of guys come to the track and have a wonderful time getting to know their bike in ways that can't be done on the streets. Most of them have mastered the throttle to some degree and progress rapidly on the "GO" thing but I have yet to find a street rider who has no track time that is not afraid of the brakes and can burn speed effectively. Braking is the hardest thing to teach by far.
Braking is a learned skill no different that a surgeon. Both takes education and lots of practice to master. Neither will be very effective if self taught.
Any of you guys who really want to learn how to use your rear brake, go to Rich Oliver's Mystery School. Three days spent on a little dirt bike with Rich Oliver will give you a good platform to get you started on rear brake application. You will fall down hundreds of time and your body will ache for days but you will leave with improved skills on controlled braking.
This past season I had quite an experience with a poor bloke who highsided himself with the rear brake. I had followed this rider for a couple of laps after noticing his right foot continuously squeezed the brake in every brake zone. Then down the back straight he went in a little deeper than previous laps. I am two bike lengths behind as he applied the front brake pretty aggressively. This time when he touched the rear brake, within the blink of an eye he was highsided into orbit. I followed him off the track while watching him tumble to a stop. He bounced up immediately but I could tell he had his bell rung. After a couple minutes when he got his helmet off I ask him "What Happened"! He says, "I'm not sure, I think someone hit me". He had not a clue as to why he crashed. Which made me wonder how many street riders have committed the same sin and never knew what happened?
I see tons of guys come to the track and have a wonderful time getting to know their bike in ways that can't be done on the streets. Most of them have mastered the throttle to some degree and progress rapidly on the "GO" thing but I have yet to find a street rider who has no track time that is not afraid of the brakes and can burn speed effectively. Braking is the hardest thing to teach by far.
Braking is a learned skill no different that a surgeon. Both takes education and lots of practice to master. Neither will be very effective if self taught.
Any of you guys who really want to learn how to use your rear brake, go to Rich Oliver's Mystery School. Three days spent on a little dirt bike with Rich Oliver will give you a good platform to get you started on rear brake application. You will fall down hundreds of time and your body will ache for days but you will leave with improved skills on controlled braking.
Good advice Tuff....but I still use both, not dramatically mind you, in the application of the rear with the front but I do use both depending.
Yes I know about wheel lock, been scared once or twice when I used my meaty paws on the rear too much but
, thats how you learn, at least I was lucky I controlled the bike the 2 times I did it. Now I use it in moderation and I use it in conjunction with the front IF the speed I am traveling at requires or dictates I should and depending on the reason etc.
I wouldn't say be afraid of the rear break its there for a reason and like everyting else on the Basa time and mastery will get you far..
Cheers and be Safe
Yes I know about wheel lock, been scared once or twice when I used my meaty paws on the rear too much but
, thats how you learn, at least I was lucky I controlled the bike the 2 times I did it. Now I use it in moderation and I use it in conjunction with the front IF the speed I am traveling at requires or dictates I should and depending on the reason etc.I wouldn't say be afraid of the rear break its there for a reason and like everyting else on the Basa time and mastery will get you far..
Cheers and be Safe
MoeMar
Registered
my chopper I used the back one time when a deer ran out. it made me do an S shaped skid. But I rode it out.
my busa I only use the front. 2 weeks ago I went down when the front brakes locked the tire and I skid. I don't think I over used it. Now that I'm back on my feet I will look at the brakes and see why it happened
my busa I only use the front. 2 weeks ago I went down when the front brakes locked the tire and I skid. I don't think I over used it. Now that I'm back on my feet I will look at the brakes and see why it happened
+1
Rear brakes are a bad habit. Useful in slow speed stopping on streets as you say, but too many people are too quick to just stomp on that rear brake.
Well when you are making a quick or emergency stop and you have to mash on the brakes, let us know how that goes using that rear. The entire weight and force of your bike is on the front tire in those situations and IF the tire isnt barely off the ground, it surely isn't going to have any traction to help your braking whatsoever. And as for slippery surfaces, your rear brake's ability is made no better to use than your front. Not saying never use your rear brake. Obviously it is there to use. But if you are used to using that rear brake alot and get into a panik situation, your survival reaction is going to be to mash on that rear brake.
This isn't a "to each his own" situation. This is a "listen to Tufbusa for once" situation
jefro
Registered
Last week on my second ride of the season I pulled out on the main road and rapped thru first, second, and at the top of third I shut down and grabbed a handful of front brake and immediately locked up the cold, fresh, and probably still dirty Power Pure. Don't think I'm ever gonna touch the front brake again, lol.
Yeah, it was pretty stupid on my part, but I credit my saving it to my long ago dirt bike training. One of my practice regimens consisted of intentionally locking up the front tire and learning to ride it out. After a while I could actually lock it up and apply throttle at the same time and still maintain speed. The key is to hold the bars straight and grip the bike tight with your legs and balance it thru weight on the footpegs-it was actually easier to do standing up.
So luckily, with my instincts developed almost 35 years ago on a '78 YZ 400, I immediately clinched the bike hard with my legs as I let up on the brake and it caught and did a quick wobble and settled right down, the Ohlins steering damper probably more responsible than me. Now if I could just get the knee prints outta my tank....
Seriously, I use the rear brake around town probably more than I should but don't use it much if at all when I get out on the twistys. It will help to keep the bike straight when your hard on the front brakes and the azz end starts moving around but at this point there's so little weight on the rear you can lock it up at the worst possible time way too easily so I just prefer to let up a touch on the front instead, if possible. My next bike's probably gonna have ABS, after last week. I throw out more underwear that way
Yeah, it was pretty stupid on my part, but I credit my saving it to my long ago dirt bike training. One of my practice regimens consisted of intentionally locking up the front tire and learning to ride it out. After a while I could actually lock it up and apply throttle at the same time and still maintain speed. The key is to hold the bars straight and grip the bike tight with your legs and balance it thru weight on the footpegs-it was actually easier to do standing up.
So luckily, with my instincts developed almost 35 years ago on a '78 YZ 400, I immediately clinched the bike hard with my legs as I let up on the brake and it caught and did a quick wobble and settled right down, the Ohlins steering damper probably more responsible than me. Now if I could just get the knee prints outta my tank....
Seriously, I use the rear brake around town probably more than I should but don't use it much if at all when I get out on the twistys. It will help to keep the bike straight when your hard on the front brakes and the azz end starts moving around but at this point there's so little weight on the rear you can lock it up at the worst possible time way too easily so I just prefer to let up a touch on the front instead, if possible. My next bike's probably gonna have ABS, after last week. I throw out more underwear that way
KYT
Registered
I use both. The rear brake is great for scrubbing a little speed off in a corner. I use it for this purpose almost every time I ride.
I think the problem most people have with the rear is using too much of it.
In wet, and panic situations, both need to be used to control the deceleration of both wheels.
My rear brake feels really spongy, I don't know if this is a defect, or if that's just how it is, but I like it and use that to my advantage.
I don't think I would want it any stronger.
Grabbing only the front brakes changes the geometry of the chassis by creating dive, which shortens trail and makes the bike easier to turn.
This is advantageous to someone racing on a track, allowing for quicker turn in. This is less necessary for someone on the street.
Combing some rear brake with the front helps settle the suspension, maintaining the longer trail, which increases stability and smooths the line.
Here's an article about suspension setup that talks about the effects of the changing suspension geometry on handling characteristics.
Motorcycle Suspension Setup
What does any of that have to do with brakes? They change the geometry too.
I think, if you use the fronts only, to create a change on purpose, and choose not to use any rear because you understand how the system works; so be it.
But to refuse to use it because someone else failed to understand how to us it, is naive and dangerous.
If you need to scrub some speed while already committed to a line in a corner, grabbing the front could be catastrophic, while a little rear could get you home for dinner.
It was said by someone earlier, if if didn't have a legitimate purpose, the MFGs would not bother putting it on there.
I think the problem most people have with the rear is using too much of it.
In wet, and panic situations, both need to be used to control the deceleration of both wheels.
My rear brake feels really spongy, I don't know if this is a defect, or if that's just how it is, but I like it and use that to my advantage.
I don't think I would want it any stronger.
Grabbing only the front brakes changes the geometry of the chassis by creating dive, which shortens trail and makes the bike easier to turn.
This is advantageous to someone racing on a track, allowing for quicker turn in. This is less necessary for someone on the street.
Combing some rear brake with the front helps settle the suspension, maintaining the longer trail, which increases stability and smooths the line.
Here's an article about suspension setup that talks about the effects of the changing suspension geometry on handling characteristics.
Motorcycle Suspension Setup
What does any of that have to do with brakes? They change the geometry too.
I think, if you use the fronts only, to create a change on purpose, and choose not to use any rear because you understand how the system works; so be it.
But to refuse to use it because someone else failed to understand how to us it, is naive and dangerous.
If you need to scrub some speed while already committed to a line in a corner, grabbing the front could be catastrophic, while a little rear could get you home for dinner.
It was said by someone earlier, if if didn't have a legitimate purpose, the MFGs would not bother putting it on there.
sanket_420
Registered
use both 
lil charlie
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I use both of my brakes, just a lot more front than rear. I got myself in some high side trouble before and leaned just how much is too much rear. I do my best to balance out the usage so I don’t end up in a bad spot again. While putting around town I will apply the rear 1st and augment it with the front, still applying more front than rear (about 75/25). When hitting it hard in the turns its always front 1st and I will only use the rear when coming to a complete stop, like at a stop sign or light.
dmallord
Registered
both brakes here as well. slow speed crawling usually rear only. hard fast braking... much more front. being as we have no ABS attention to feel is ever so important. modulation.
i had a customer with an abs chevy truck. his ABS module was inop, and he rear ended someone. the real reason for the crash was not being familiar with the CURRENT braking system on his truck.
i had a customer with an abs chevy truck. his ABS module was inop, and he rear ended someone. the real reason for the crash was not being familiar with the CURRENT braking system on his truck.
I had a similar experience in my 2500HD when the tire shop put 80psi instead of 60 in my front tires. The ABS flipped out and put me in the middle of an intersection when I tried to stop at a red light.
lil charlie
Registered
Lil Charlie likes his rear brake but don’t you worry Lamb; he uses it very sparingly and in moderation. Lil Charlie had on off (ouch) from improper rear braking before and does not wish to repeat.
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