While messing with my valve adjusting..

[JINKSTER]

it occured to me that the crankcase breather hose running from the crankcase breather into the airbox is rather small diameter for that long of a run...which to me seems like it may be a tad restrictive for the air inside the crankcase to flow whilst pistons are on the downstroke...i'm thinking about plugging up that hose port in my airbox and adapting a seperate breather/airfilter right on top of the crankcase breather assy (appears there's plenty enough room in there for one) and doing away with that long skinny azz crankcase breather hose.

Watchya'll think 'bout that?

anybody ever done this before?

L8R, Bill.

 

[JINKSTER]

no thoughts on this huh?

 

[Red05]

I just saw this, Jinx. I wondered about that too. I read a while back about a mod where you hook the pair valve hose to the vent, using it as a pump to suck vapors, but I don't think the pump moves enough volume. Your idea sounds good. Would you make a new cover or mod the old one?

 

[pward76]

Hi Jinks,

I remember seeing that very thing on Brock's website awhile back. I've been searching for it but can't find it....

I'll keep looking...

 

[jjmetheny]

I had mine like this for most of last summer and it allowed a little more oil to blow out than I cared for.

I have since added 5-6" of hose to the vent with the filter attached to the end of it and I haven't had any oil blow out since. I would say if you have the stock air box I would just leave it how it is.

 

[pward76]

(jjmetheny @ Mar. 31 2007,18:27) I had mine like this for most of last summer and it allowed a little more oil to blow out than I cared for.

I have since added 5-6" of hose to the vent with the filter attached to the end of it and I haven't had any oil blow out since. I would say if you have the stock air box I would just leave it how it is.

That's just like the one I saw.

Is it recommended for turbo bikes? Any benefit for stock motor? I hear about less crankcase pressure, but is that a big deal?

 

[jjmetheny]

(pward76 @ Mar. 31 2007,21:19) Is it recommended for turbo bikes?  Any benefit for stock motor?  I hear about less crankcase pressure, but is that a big deal?

You don't have much of a choice when you add a turbo. I really doubt you would notice a difference one way or another.

 

[pward76]

(jjmetheny @ Mar. 31 2007,19:46)

(pward76 @ Mar. 31 2007,21:19) Is it recommended for turbo bikes? Any benefit for stock motor? I hear about less crankcase pressure, but is that a big deal?

You don't have much of a choice when you add a turbo. I really doubt you would notice a difference one way or another.

Well now that you mention it, yeah, I guess a turbo bike has to have it.

Just wondering if the stuff I read about crankcase pressure, etc. is BS or not. I'm thinking I don't want one more filter to mess with if I don't have to .


Sorry to hijack your thread Jinks.

 

[JINKSTER]

(pward76 @ Mar. 31 2007,18:30)

(jjmetheny @ Mar. 31 2007,19:46)

(pward76 @ Mar. 31 2007,21:19) Is it recommended for turbo bikes?  Any benefit for stock motor?  I hear about less crankcase pressure, but is that a big deal?

You don't have much of a choice when you add a turbo. I really doubt you would notice a difference one way or another.

Well now that you mention it, yeah, I guess a turbo bike has to have it.  

Just wondering if the stuff I read about crankcase pressure, etc. is BS or not.  I'm thinking I don't want one more filter to mess with if I don't have to .


Sorry to hijack your thread Jinks.

no call for apologies here...we're getting some answers and that's a good thing.

It's also been my experience that every tuner who ever taught me all agreed that the more crankcase pressure you can relieve?...the quicker revving the engine will become....and i experienced that when i went with individual airfilters (Pods) on my old ZRX and did away with the airbox...and the crankcase breather hose running to it...and went with a small K&N filter as an individual filter for my crankcase..and it did in fact get noticably "quicker revving"..i'm just not certain what the results would be with the busa without trying it..or?..if i'd be worth trying.

But i could see possibly that....The busa is so freaking powerful?...relieving crankcase pressure may not be as noticable as it was on my ZRX...but the other bonus here would be that it would also keep all them crankcase nasties from getting blown up into my airbox...another bonus here would be that the vacuum signal/pressurized ram air signals would be cleaned up a tad as the crankcase breather hose would no longer have any input/output influence on your airbox...so....besides relieving crankcase pressure?..imho?...there's a bunch of other good reasons to do/try this.

L8R, Bill.

 

[kaycee04le]

Did anyone have a chance to try this out yet? Someone said something about running it through the pair valve pump? My bikes all apart right now and I was just curious if this is something I should do before its all put back together.

Oh, and good job on your "tutorials" Jinks, they are awesome.

 

[Wag]

Something I was wondering, though I'm no fluid mechanics specialist, are you going to relieve more pressure with a bigger hose? The stub that the hose connects to has only a certain diameter itself so will that restrict the flow out of it?

In other words, if you use a bigger hose, don't you also have to use a bigger port on both ends?

--Wag--

 

[mountainmotor]

Keeping the factory set-up should help releive crankcase pressure via the huge vacuum pull from the airbox/throttle bodies more so than a single " vent " .

My personal opinion is the only use for the little KN filter there is when removing an airbox and running pod filters on carbed bikes and or using boost pressure into a turbo plenum which of course it would be unwise to blow that turbo pressure back into the crankcase .

 

[JINKSTER]

(Wag @ Apr. 07 2007,06:32) Something I was wondering, though I'm no fluid mechanics specialist, are you going to relieve more pressure with a bigger hose?  The stub that the hose connects to has only a certain diameter itself so will that restrict the flow out of it?  

In other words, if you use a bigger hose, don't you also have to use a bigger port on both ends?

--Wag--

your thinking is both right and wrong...first off?..you must understand that we're talking relieving air pressure in the crankcase here...not fluid dynamics..

2ndly?..You are correct...a larger diameter fitting would indeed help in the de-restriction of crankcase "BREATHER" airflow....but would require re-design/re-machine of the crankcase breather cover itself.

Lastly?...the point i'm getting at here is that air flow/pressure can be relieved to a great degree by simply "shortening the length" of the same diameter hose...to prove this out?...take a full length drinking straw and put it between your lips and attempt to breath through it..now?....cut just an inch of straw off and do the same with that and you'll immediately notice the ease of which your able to breath through the shorter length of straw..same deal with the crankcase breather hose..but also relize that this crankcase breather hose is "Pulsing Right Into Your AirBox"..(for pollution/epa purposes) and having a slight affect on your tuning...also?...unless there's a one-way-check-valve that i've overlooked?....once you've achieved ram air speeds and your airbox becomes "Pressurized"?..how well is your crankcase breather truely breathing then?

Not try'in to be a wiseazz here..just wondering myself.

L8R, Bill.

 

[05BusaLe]

If you are not Turbo or Super charged then leave it hooked up to the air box, because the negitive air pressure (vac) in the air box helps to evacuate the crankcase. Now when I super charge my bike I will be running an airbox in the tail section that I will hook the breather hose up to, When the bike is under boost it will need that negitive air pressure (vac) to help get rid of the pressure created within the crankcase due to blow by past the rings!

 

[JINKSTER]

(mountainmotor @ Apr. 07 2007,06:42) Keeping the factory set-up should help releive crankcase pressure via the huge vacuum pull from the airbox/throttle bodies more so than a single " vent " .

My personal opinion is the only use for the little KN filter there is when removing an airbox and running pod filters on carbed bikes and or using boost pressure into a turbo plenum which of course it would be unwise to blow that turbo pressure back into the crankcase .

So MM..are you saying that the airbox is always under negitive pressure creating suction on the crankcase breather?..hmmm...I thought the whole intent of highspeed work in a ram air system was to cause the airbox to become "pressurized"....and that's what yields the ram air advantage...am i wrong in this thinking?

 

[BusaCruise]

changing the hose won't do anything for the volume of air passing through the breather plate.
Unless you build the motor...the pressure created in the case is minimal at best.and by leaving it alone...this allows the negative pressure in the airbox to help pull air out of the cases.
Zooks are notorious for blowing oil on every GSX design based motor. It's just the way the cases are designed and how the internals are configured.
That is one of the reasons the breather plate is so tall and the air passage is spiraled inside.
I noticed a definite increase in residue in my airbox when I replaced my plate with a flat MPS model.

The new GSXRS built based on the GP layouts....might have resolved it since the relocated the gearboxes.

Placing a filter on a hose from the crankcase...looks nice (I did it on my previous bikes)...but it "can" lead to a mess. You might as well just wait unitl you build it then put in a small catch can.

 

[JINKSTER]

(BusaCruise @ Apr. 07 2007,06:54) changing the hose won't do anything for the volume of air passing through the breather plate.
Unless you build the motor...the pressure created in the case is minimal at best.and by leaving it alone...this allows the negative pressure in the airbox to help pull air out of the cases.
Zooks are notorious for blowing oil on every GSX design based motor.  It's just the way the cases are designed and how the internals are configured.
That is one of the reasons the breather plate is so tall and the air passage is spiraled inside.  
I noticed a definite increase in residue in my airbox when I replaced my plate with a flat MPS model.

The new GSXRS built based on the GP layouts....might have resolved it since the relocated the gearboxes.

Placing a filter on a hose from the crankcase...looks nice (I did it on my previous bikes)...but it "can" lead to a mess.  You might as well just wait unitl you build it then put in a small catch can.

Wow!

This is cool...motorheads are coming out of the woodwork!

But again..BC?..I pose the same question to you that i pose to MM...

"are you saying that the airbox is always under negitive pressure creating suction on the crankcase breather?..hmmm...I thought the whole intent of highspeed work in a ram air system was to cause the airbox to become "pressurized"....and that's what yields the ram air advantage...am i wrong in this thinking?"

Because if it's true that the draw is always greater than the intake and the airbox is always under negitive pressure?....then this isn't a "TRUE" ram-air system as i understand it...as in a true ram-air system?...the airbox reaches a cross-over point where the speeds achieved cause a greater intake volume than the max cfm draw of the t-bodies thereby causing the airbox to "become" pressurized...greatly relieving the intake downstroke to a subtle positive pressure "push" rather than the piston having to "draw-in" the intake downstroke..yeilding the ram air advantage...are ya'll saying it never crosses over at any speed?

 

[BusaCruise]

(JINKSTER @ Apr. 07 2007,12:49) So MM..are you saying that the airbox is always under negitive pressure creating suction on the crankcase breather?..hmmm...I thought the whole intent of highspeed work in a ram air system was to cause the airbox to become "pressurized"....and that's what yields the ram air advantage...am i wrong in this thinking?

not wrong ...just giving ram air more credit than it deserves.

if there is positive pressure it would be in the upper half of the airbox...
this keeps the motor from having to "search" for air.

...and notice the placement of the breather tube...between #2 & #3 TBs....on the lower level... if there's going to be pressure in the airbox...it wouldn't be there.

Somewhere they did a review on the efficiency of the different maker's ram air setups on bikes..... Kawi was the hands don winner of course, because they have the most experience with it.


But one thing I remember from the article was the while the Busa was being tested....the machine they were using to provide the "ram air effect" wasn't able to keep up with the intake demands once the Busa was in the upper part of the RPM range.
My take would be that there is rarely any real amount of positive pressure in the Busa airbox...and it quickly disappears.
The nose of the Busa is great for speed...but not for grabbing air to feed it well.

 

[05BusaLe]

I thought the ram air effect didnt happen till 140 mph?

 

[JINKSTER]

(05BusaLe @ Apr. 07 2007,07:09) I thought the ram air effect didnt happen till 140 mph?

and your point is?

I live in south floriduh man...and out in the middle of the state?...in "No-Mans-Land"?..."Alligator Alley"?....Swampola?...140 is just a 'lil higher than "Gett'in 'Round" speeds.

ain't nuthin out there but Sportbikes...Police Choppers...alligators, hogs, redants, rattlesnakes and green 4X4 pick-up trucks with big gold stars on the doors...that still hit their own speed limiters just north of 100mph!

and of course the occassional rogue FHP.

L8R, Bill.