what I learned about tire pressure
- Thread starter WWJD
- Start date
I won't donate a wooden Nickel to this asshat. He spews a LOT of cr@p and backs up nothing. WWJD has written his experience and backed it up with facts he witnessed, So I don't understand how the all knowing P69 missed the facts unless his reading comprehension skills are extremely sub-standard. In regards to his "facts" on nitrogen use, I offer this conflicting point of view offered from Ingersol-Rand, NASA, the US Military, Goodyear and Nascar... NASCAR race car's, along with airplanes, fleet vehicles, Formula 1 cars, NASA Space shuttle, and military vehicles have used Nitrogen in their tires for years. They depend on Nitrogen for consistent tire pressure, cooler running tires, and increased safety Doesn't sound like they really care how "dry" their rims stay. Oxygen seeps out of the tires thru it's absorption into and eventually out of the rubber carcasses. Nitrogen, despite actually being smaller in atomic structure, is absorbed at a MUCH slower rate. Therefore correct pressures are sustained longer. The expansion properties of nitrogen are more consistent and predictable because, well I'd explain it but I'll lose you about 5 words in.
P69, Do us all a favor execute your vast riding knowledge and praise worthy riding skills by personally verifying that the Busa's front headlight nacelle will remain unscathed after a 150mph direct impact with a brick wall ...
I would like to slip into this thread and ask a question about the pressures. I noticed the tires seem to slide around a bit if the pressure slips to around 35 or so. Much more than at the 42 recc. max.. I do not tend to ride very hard, adn have never done a track day. If the tires got hotter from harder riding, would they get slimier at 42 than at 36 if I started to ride hard? I can understand too little, but have no idea about too hard.
Just trying to learn, not get flamed.
Todd
Just trying to learn, not get flamed.
Todd
WWJD thanks for info. i adjusted my tires down to 38 for spirited street riding. feels much better.
psalm69 - its obvious that you clearly dont know what your talking about either, moisture/corrosion is not the only reason for use of nitrogen in tires.
go google use of nitrogen in tires.
until then sit back & enjoy the ride.
we are all here to help each other out.
psalm69 - its obvious that you clearly dont know what your talking about either, moisture/corrosion is not the only reason for use of nitrogen in tires.
go google use of nitrogen in tires.
until then sit back & enjoy the ride.
The benefits nitrogen are these:
1) Reduced oxidation of rubber compounds - which should extend the life of a tire before the materials fail - which probably isn't very useful unless you keep tires a long time. this would be unrealistic in a motorcyle tire especially ours, maybe benificial to a semi tire that is supposed to last 100,000 miles but not a bikes that is luck to average 5-10k miles
2) Reduces pressure loss - this is somewhat useful as it extends the time before you need to add "air" to compensate for the air that seeped through the casing - but a lot of the air loss is around the beads where it contacts the rim so that's not as useful as it sounds. Besides even if you only check your tires twice a year (when the weather changes from hot to cold or the other way), you should be able to tell when you need to "top up" and it's not all that difficult.
3) And the reason NASCAR (and other racing series use nitrogen) - there is no water introduced into the tire. Water, in liquid form, can change the way the heat buildup affects the pressure buildup. For racing this is very important as this affects the handling of the car. But on the street, this has almost no meaning as the differences are small and most folks wouldn't be able to tell the difference - not mention use the difference to their advantage.
the other benifit is decreased corrosion as stated earlier, but our rims are coated already so that isn't a big deal.
while p69 kinda rubbed everone the wrong way on how he stated the beni's of nitrogen, for the most part he's right. mostly unless your at the track, nitrogen is not really worth it for automotive purposes. great for aircraft tire use though.
as for inflation pressure, that's all in how you wanna ride the bike in what you wanna get out of the tire. it's all give and take for the most part.
WWJD, great post on tire pressure, will definately start at a lower pressure than stock reccomendations when I go to the track. I wonder if this would apply to the rear tire for drag racing, and inflating the front to the high side for less rolling resistance.... hmmm
1) Reduced oxidation of rubber compounds - which should extend the life of a tire before the materials fail - which probably isn't very useful unless you keep tires a long time. this would be unrealistic in a motorcyle tire especially ours, maybe benificial to a semi tire that is supposed to last 100,000 miles but not a bikes that is luck to average 5-10k miles
2) Reduces pressure loss - this is somewhat useful as it extends the time before you need to add "air" to compensate for the air that seeped through the casing - but a lot of the air loss is around the beads where it contacts the rim so that's not as useful as it sounds. Besides even if you only check your tires twice a year (when the weather changes from hot to cold or the other way), you should be able to tell when you need to "top up" and it's not all that difficult.
3) And the reason NASCAR (and other racing series use nitrogen) - there is no water introduced into the tire. Water, in liquid form, can change the way the heat buildup affects the pressure buildup. For racing this is very important as this affects the handling of the car. But on the street, this has almost no meaning as the differences are small and most folks wouldn't be able to tell the difference - not mention use the difference to their advantage.
the other benifit is decreased corrosion as stated earlier, but our rims are coated already so that isn't a big deal.
while p69 kinda rubbed everone the wrong way on how he stated the beni's of nitrogen, for the most part he's right. mostly unless your at the track, nitrogen is not really worth it for automotive purposes. great for aircraft tire use though.
as for inflation pressure, that's all in how you wanna ride the bike in what you wanna get out of the tire. it's all give and take for the most part.
WWJD, great post on tire pressure, will definately start at a lower pressure than stock reccomendations when I go to the track. I wonder if this would apply to the rear tire for drag racing, and inflating the front to the high side for less rolling resistance.... hmmm
80 posts? That's because I'm riding my scoot and not sitting in front of the computer for hours on end just talking about it. You guys are just a little too sensitive when statements are called into question. The infantile name calling with the symbols for letters is especially classy, keep that up for sure. I'll tell you this for a little action ya'll are a great time.
Ever hear of the phrase.."it isn't what you say, but how you say it"??
Ok, I'll admit...maybe the comment about 80 posts was cold. Kinda funny how people tend to react to the type of attitude you displayed......I'm sure you are used to it tho...
Never did see an answer to my question in that post ....
How much track time do you have? Please, any true hands-on insight you could add to this would be wonderful!
WWJD - do you run your "street" pressure the same for the front, and back tires? I'm just a simple minded guy, so no strange math or theory for me...lol. Also, some people run higher psi, and some run lower psi in their rear tire compared to the front. Can you please explain which method (More or Less rear tire pressure) is better for the street.
With the aftermarket wheels, which some people say drop air pressure quicker than stock wheels, and the ever changing climate here in MN - If my PSI drops below 30 (My bad for not always checking) I feel like the bike is very unsafe to ride. Sorta strange how just a few psi can make such a huge difference.... Thanks WWJD for your input....thanks for keeping it real simple for us Polocks
psalm69 - can you dumb it down a little for me....Don't be a d!nk about it, but can you give us some real world results, testing, helpful info for me to use...what settings do you suggest...if WWJD is so far off base, please keep us all safe from his Tierney of evil input
With the aftermarket wheels, which some people say drop air pressure quicker than stock wheels, and the ever changing climate here in MN - If my PSI drops below 30 (My bad for not always checking) I feel like the bike is very unsafe to ride. Sorta strange how just a few psi can make such a huge difference.... Thanks WWJD for your input....thanks for keeping it real simple for us Polocks
psalm69 - can you dumb it down a little for me....Don't be a d!nk about it, but can you give us some real world results, testing, helpful info for me to use...what settings do you suggest...if WWJD is so far off base, please keep us all safe from his Tierney of evil input
+1 with WWJD, TufBusa, VMan and other TRACK JUNKIES!!
P69: You got some real learning to do. Ask ANY RACER, ANY TRACKDAY rider, what PSI are they running? And I ain't telling you to go to another board. Go to your nearest track that holds motorcycle trackdays. Go the the AMA races. You'll get 29-30 PSI. ASK any Michelin/Dunlop/Pirelli guy you see at the track mounting tires at the track what PSI you need to run at the track: around 29-30 PSI. Michelins can run as low as 21 PSI.
Streets are gonna be different obviously b/c of the variations, debris of the surface. When 42 PSI is only the MAX cold pressure the "engineers" say you can inflate your rubber before it starts to delaminate at high speeds/temp, etc.
Of course engineering data alone is usually "theoretical" and not always reflective of real world riding/racing situations. It's when you combine testing, gathering data and trying a different setup that works. That's what MotoGP, AMA, WSB, WERA, CCS, WSMC and host of other organizations have tried. It's tried and TRUE. I TRIPLE CHALLENGE you to go ahead and do a track day with Max psi on your tires and ride to 110% of your ability. You tell us how max psi feels and how the bike responds. If your lap times are incredible and you actually smoke liters and 600's, then you prolly are on to something.
And WWJD's experiences are always gonna differ from yours, mine and anyone elses. You don't need to be calling him names just because he actually rides his Busa harder than you do at the track and gathers/learns something new.
P69: You got some real learning to do. Ask ANY RACER, ANY TRACKDAY rider, what PSI are they running? And I ain't telling you to go to another board. Go to your nearest track that holds motorcycle trackdays. Go the the AMA races. You'll get 29-30 PSI. ASK any Michelin/Dunlop/Pirelli guy you see at the track mounting tires at the track what PSI you need to run at the track: around 29-30 PSI. Michelins can run as low as 21 PSI.
Streets are gonna be different obviously b/c of the variations, debris of the surface. When 42 PSI is only the MAX cold pressure the "engineers" say you can inflate your rubber before it starts to delaminate at high speeds/temp, etc.
Of course engineering data alone is usually "theoretical" and not always reflective of real world riding/racing situations. It's when you combine testing, gathering data and trying a different setup that works. That's what MotoGP, AMA, WSB, WERA, CCS, WSMC and host of other organizations have tried. It's tried and TRUE. I TRIPLE CHALLENGE you to go ahead and do a track day with Max psi on your tires and ride to 110% of your ability. You tell us how max psi feels and how the bike responds. If your lap times are incredible and you actually smoke liters and 600's, then you prolly are on to something.
And WWJD's experiences are always gonna differ from yours, mine and anyone elses. You don't need to be calling him names just because he actually rides his Busa harder than you do at the track and gathers/learns something new.
Sure man. When I hit the track I run 42 lbs. Why? Cuz the bike feels as if I'm on flat tires and is wallowy when I run less. It responds like a tank and does not react anywhere near as fast. I guess if you like the feeling of an unresponsive pig then "what would jackass do"s method is pure bliss. Or maybe you are just a little afraid of some headshake coming out of a corner. In that case, the "I'm gonna run less air to make up for my inabilities" is clearly the method to use.
Ya'll said it yourselves Rossi, Hayden, AMA all have special tires that stick blah blah blah. So I'm gonna get on my street tires, imitate their settings and well you know the rest. And then I'm gonna recommend them to the "n00bs".
I really don't give a rip if you agree with me or not. And I don't care if you respect my opinion or not. And I won't hesitate to counter or call out a method. Clearly that hurts feelings because you all are more interested in hearts, flowers, ducks and bunnies, not making your Internet buddy mad, and bench racing. Fine. But I'll call it like I see it. And I think a bunch of you boys are wrong.
Ya'll said it yourselves Rossi, Hayden, AMA all have special tires that stick blah blah blah. So I'm gonna get on my street tires, imitate their settings and well you know the rest. And then I'm gonna recommend them to the "n00bs".
I really don't give a rip if you agree with me or not. And I don't care if you respect my opinion or not. And I won't hesitate to counter or call out a method. Clearly that hurts feelings because you all are more interested in hearts, flowers, ducks and bunnies, not making your Internet buddy mad, and bench racing. Fine. But I'll call it like I see it. And I think a bunch of you boys are wrong.
PS69
Name a track that you have ever even been on.
And back it up with a pic.
Here's mine.
Plus I am out riding my bike a lot.
# 1 on the summer challenge
# 3 on the yearly. as of Sept 1st
So don't throw smack around the most serious Busa site in the world.
Sea Ya on the track maybe, but more likely in the pits.
Timmyduck
Dude, the more you rap, the more you show your ignorance. If you are running 42 lbs. on the track you are very slow. I sponser a race team and I can tell you how important tire pressure is, we adjust pressure in 1/4 pound increments to get it exact for maximum performance from the tires. Race tires run lower pressure than street tires simply because race tires need more heat. Most Street tires need 32 to 34 lbs to create the proper heat to make them perform. 42lbs and you have a very cold and slippery tire. Running 42 lbs. I can assure you an ass bustin is coming your way if you try going fast. 42 lbs and fast just can't be used in the same sentence if you want any credibility.
Get off those pilot powers and you won't have to run 42 lbs to make them feel firm.
WWJD, Thank you very much for your post and the information conveyed, your experience at this track pretty well defines exactly what you were dealing with on that particular day, Keeps life interesting when the Air Temp vs Track Temp vs Tire Temp are infinitely changing. Sounds like a Trackday at Willow Springs in February, could be 28 deg. in the am and fluctuate up to 85 by afternoon.
For Willow Springs and Buttonwillow a Fun and Productive Trackday, in warm to moderate temperatures, Tires are at an even 30 and 30.
Just a side comment below:
Note: Let the heaven and earth praise Him, the seas, and every thing that moveth therein.
Psalm 69:34.
(Referring to God the Father, Creator of all)
Whoever the Viper is that is spewing un-necessary slop on this board, seriously needs to stop using the name psalm69, as it Appears the only thing he Praises, is Himself!!!
For Willow Springs and Buttonwillow a Fun and Productive Trackday, in warm to moderate temperatures, Tires are at an even 30 and 30.
Just a side comment below:
Note: Let the heaven and earth praise Him, the seas, and every thing that moveth therein.
Psalm 69:34.
(Referring to God the Father, Creator of all)
Whoever the Viper is that is spewing un-necessary slop on this board, seriously needs to stop using the name psalm69, as it Appears the only thing he Praises, is Himself!!!
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