Video of my bike taking too long to start. Ideas?

[Lucid]

06 motor.
Aftermarket fuel pump and reg.
no PC
New plugs go in about once a year or so. I just replace em when I have the tank off because...why not. It helps rules out plugs as a problem when diagnosing.

The bike has always started like this, even with the 99 motor I started with, the old problematic 99 starter, etc. It takes a long time to start, which is hell on the battery, and if it doesn't have a full or almost full battery, the bike will try and try to start until it kills the battery. (obviously I don't keep trying on the same push so I don't get kickback, but after a try or two of about 5-6 seconds at a time, the battery is so down that it'll never start)

I thought a nice Ballistic Lithium battery would be the end of these problems, but it did the same thing and drained that battery until dead too. So it's not the battery causing this.

To ride it now, I HAVE to have the battery fully charged overnight, start it one time in the morning and one time for the trip home. More startups than that and I risk being stranded or pushing.

Does anyone hear anything odd on startup? Something I could finally fix and have the bike start within one second or two instead of four- five seconds+ ? If you haven't caught on by now, the long starts are wearing down the battery, which makes subsequent starts less likely.

Video: (you get to hear a little bit of the Brock's Street Meg toward the end, in case you're interested. Quiet low and loud high.)
This was after a 30min ride:

 

[Lucid]

I couldn't count the attempts by hearing so I took it into a program for a visual of the startup. Here's a screenshot; you can see ten attempts to start, which it typical, usually 8-12 tries.
I think most bikes start after 1-2, whereas mine takes a lot longer.

 

[twotonevert]

you can sync the TB's and that may help.

 

[O Holy P]

My bike acts very similar to this. It'd be nice to hit the starter and it fire right up after 1 or 2 revolutions. I'm curious what would alleviate this issue....

 

[BusaBret]

Have the valves been checked recently??

 

[Lucid]

Nope, I forgot I was going to try both of these this spring, valves and TBs. The motor was built probably 8k ago with JE flattops and stiffer valve springs, but haven't been checked and that was 2 owners ago on that motor so who knows how well it was done.

Throttle bodies are from an 06, bought off ebay during the swap. Could be these two things, thanks for the input!

 

[card16969]

replace your battery mine was the same way and i replaced the battery and it cut the starting time down to half... battery showed good on a battery tester replaced it and wham it ran better all around

 

[Busa1166]

Your bike turns over a lot slower than mine. Have you checked the voltage on the battery when turning it over.

 

[lankeeyankee]

Starter drag, or valve adjustment needed. Double check the ground strap on the battery

 

[majestic12]

Aren't These ignition coils power hungry? Could it be your starter takes so much of the power you don't have enough to charge the coils during the initial cranking? I had an older ignition system do that to me on a weak battery.

Also are you smelling fuel while you are cranking that long? Could the injectors not have enough power to operate?

Also I didn't see you make a mention as to how old your battery is, how many times it has been completely discharged, if it has been frozen. Batteries can be temperamental and fickle things.

I could be off base but somethings to think about.

 

[card16969]

Aren't These ignition coils power hungry? Could it be your starter takes so much of the power you don't have enough to charge the coils during the initial cranking? I had an older ignition system do that to me on a weak battery.

Also are you smelling fuel while you are cranking that long? Could the injectors not have enough power to operate?

Also I didn't see you make a mention as to how old your battery is, how many times it has been completely discharged, if it has been frozen. Batteries can be temperamental and fickle things.

I could be off base but somethings to think about.

Thats why i was saying to replace the battery slow crank equals low compression and offset spark.... replace the battery most likely will fix the problem

 

[Lucid]

All the battery suggestions, check back at the third paragraph of the original post. I replaced the battery with a Ballistic Lithium battery which has lots more CCA (don't remember exactly) and still had the problem. I've been through two other batteries so I think it's something else. I finally wised up and now I throw it on the trickle charger every second it's at home so it's always full, which makes it ride-able but doesn't fix the problem of taking too long to start in the first place.

Lankee, the power and ground wires were replaced with thicker gauge wire which helped, but didn't solve. All are tight.

Your bike turns over a lot slower than mine. Have you checked the voltage on the battery when turning it over.

I threw a volt gauge on my dash panel to monitor things a few months ago (that's how frustrated I got). Don't remember exactly off the top of my head where it is while cranking, and I'll check tomorrow, but if I remember correctly I can see it drop below 12.

 

[lankeeyankee]

Hmmmmm
OK lets dig deeper.
This bike has always done this you stated the 99 and current 06.
Is it the same starter from the 99 put on to your 06 engine?

 

[Lucid]

Also I didn't see you make a mention as to how old your battery is, how many times it has been completely discharged, if it has been frozen. Batteries can be temperamental and fickle things.

The battery I'm on has had one full discharge, and I know how needy they can be after just one. I maaaaaay just replace the damn thing one more time since I have thicker cables now and I've relocated the fuel pump to back under the tank. We'll see, I'll keep this updated. I still feel like I need to sync the carbs and maybe a valve job; I guess one more battery swap will let me know.

Hmmmmm
OK lets dig deeper.
This bike has always done this you stated the 99 and current 06.
Is it the same starter from the 99 put on to your 06 engine?

06 starter came with the swap, I've tested the charging system, stator and reg/rec separately and they're all within spec.

 

[card16969]

do a system draw test and see if you have something leeching from your system that seems to be the most likely thing is that somethings eating it down inbetween use. What electrical accessories do you have?

 

[lankeeyankee]

Well I dont know.
Bike has always done this,, different starters....different engines........ different batteries......new cables heavier gauge.....
Thats about it.. Onlything left is the starter relay... Wooooooh Lahhhh!
Bypass the relay and go straight to the starter terminal from the battery.

 

[GSrider]

Does opening up the throttle a little bit help shorten crank time? It would be interesting to know if the fuel rail is pressured up to specification at the initial cycling of the key to the on position and on what cycle the injectors are starting to fire and at what duration(duty cycle) to induce fuel into the intake. Do you hear the fuel pump come on to pressure up the rail when the key is turned on? I've got the original OEM Yuasa battery in my 08' and it starts hard when cold (around freezing) but I believe I can get more start attempts then you can out of your new Lithium battery. A fully charged battery(without a surface charge) will have approx.12.6 volts at the terminals. Does yours have this when you're attempting to start it?

Pat

 

[SKnight]

What compression are you running? As for always having done this I want you to try something. Take a digital volt meter and measure the cranking voltage at the battery. Ideally it shouldn't drop below 10.5 but is OK at 10. Next in the same 20V DC setting (Your meter may vary.) measure from the positive battery post itself (Not the cable or screw, the lead post.) and the post on the starter itself. Spin it over and note the reading. Then go from the negative post to a good bare section of the block or head, basically grab the same metal the negative cable is bolted to and spin it over again. You don't have to let it start during these tests. This is called a voltage drop and measures the cables integrity under a real load. You should see .1V ideally with an absolute max of .5V. .1V on the meter means that .1V is refusing to travel through the cable. .5V means a lot of power is refusing to flow through the cable.

Lets say you have a big drop, what's happening is that even though you have plenty of power available the power that makes it to the engine is being used up by the starter with very little getting to the ECM. That causes all sorts of issues until it finally kicks over and you let the button go.

 

[SKnight]

To prove findings you can use jumper cables to assist the connection between the battery and the engine. That extra will assist things to prove a point.