Vibration not between 4500-5500 but above

[gex]

Hi, for the last 8 years i have rode a 1992 GSX 1100 and last year i purchased a 2005 750, that bike was an excellent one but the torque was not there so i sold it early this year and went back on my 92 1100,,,,after some visit to the guy who tune my bike and several drag bike,,,,he told me couple of times that instead of putting money on my GSX 1992,,,, i would be better to purchase a Busa, it was a good idea until he informed me that he wanted to sell his 2003 Busa, I knew there was some magic touch on that bike because that guy(50 years old) is very meticulous and professional and possesses a dyno,,,he does not talk a lot but lots of guy who ask him to tune their bike got great result……so I decided 2 weeks ago to purchase the 13000 km Busa which look like new but my mistake was to purchased it without trying it,,,,I had lots of trust in the owner and he always told me that a Busa run very well…..

After I went back home with the bike, I contacted him to tell him that I noticed a strange vibration,,,,,and he told me that it was normal,,,,,so I did lots of search and learnt that between 4500 to 5500 rpm there is a vibration,,,,,I took the bike to verify that and yes,,,,at 143 km per hour, I notice a vibration similar to what I had with my old GSX 1100,,,I have no problem with that,,,but the vibration I have which start at speed of 180 or 6000 rpm is more like a tire unbalanced so, I took both wheel to the dealer and ask them to verify them,,,,there was a big unbalanced on the rear wheel,,,,I put back the wheels on the bike,,,it help a little bit for little vibration under 140 km per hour

At the dealer, there is a seller who owns a 2004 Busa and I ask him if we could exchange our bike for a road test…..and I noticed almost the same vibration on his bike starting at 6000 rpm or 180 km per hours and still there if we continue to increase speed,,,,,,the mirror and windshield are shaking all the time until we decrease the speed under 180!!!

If I downshift in gear 5 with my bike, the problem is still there at 180 and the fact that the problem is there on the other bike,,,sincerely, I am confused

I am used of vibration on my old 1992 GSX 1100,,,is that normal that Busa shake a lot more or is it possible that both Busa had the same problem? could it be a problem with a tire?

Please, do you have an idea of the problem or is it normal,,,I love the bike but disappointed of the vibration above 6000 rpm or 180 km per hour…

Thank you very much

 

[OZZY]

sounds normal to me....

 

[The Big Red One]

(gex @ Aug. 08 2007,21:52) Hi, for the last 8 years i have rode a 1992 GSX 1100 and last year i purchased a 2005 750, that bike was an excellent one but the torque was not there so i sold it early this year and went back on my 92 1100,,,,after some visit to the guy who tune my bike and several drag bike,,,,he told me couple of times that instead of putting money on my GSX 1992,,,, i would be better to purchase a Busa, it was a good idea until he informed me that he wanted to sell his  2003 Busa, I knew there was some magic touch on that bike because that guy(50 years old) is very meticulous and professional and possesses a dyno,,,he does not talk a lot but lots of guy who ask him to tune their bike got great result……so I decided 2 weeks ago to purchase the 13000 km Busa which look like new but my mistake was to purchased it without trying it,,,,I had lots of trust in the owner and he always told me that a Busa run very well…..

After I went back home with the bike, I contacted him to tell him that I noticed a strange vibration,,,,,and he told me that it was normal,,,,,so I did lots of search and learnt that between 4500 to 5500 rpm there is a vibration,,,,,I took the bike to verify that and yes,,,,at 143 km per hour, I notice a vibration similar to what I had with my old GSX 1100,,,I have no problem with that,,,but the vibration I have which start at speed of 180 or 6000 rpm is more like a tire unbalanced so, I took both wheel to the dealer and ask them to verify them,,,,there was a big unbalanced on the rear wheel,,,,I put back the wheels on the bike,,,it help a little bit for little vibration under 140 km per hour

At the dealer, there is a seller who owns a 2004 Busa and I ask him if we could exchange our bike for a road test…..and I noticed almost the same vibration on his bike starting at 6000 rpm or 180 km per hours and still there if we continue to increase speed,,,,,,the mirror and windshield are shaking all the time until we decrease the speed under 180!!!

If I downshift in gear 5 with my bike, the problem is still there at 180 and the fact that the problem is there on the other bike,,,sincerely, I am confused

I am used of vibration on my old 1992 GSX 1100,,,is that normal that Busa shake a lot more or is it possible that both Busa had the same problem? could it be a problem with a tire?

Please, do you have an idea of the problem or is it normal,,,I love the bike but disappointed of the vibration above 6000 rpm or 180 km per hour…

Thank you very much

Busa's shake. Its a big powerful engine...your gonna get some vibes.

Keeping the chain adjusted will help quite abit.

 

[GIXERHP]

It normal on a busa, and your 1100, its very hard to get ride of it until you change the carbs to flatslides, and also change the ignition to a Dyna 2000!

 

[Cblast]

I also have some vibes, when i bought the Busa it less than 1 mile on it. the vibes come with the torque.

 

[Gixx1300R]

Hayabusas vibrate at that rpm because that is the rev range that the initial emission testing was done. The ECU is retarding the timing. Get a TRE and a tune,it will go away.

 

[gex]

Thanks for all your reply,

Ok, it seems that i should have done some search before purchassing my Busa,,,but now it is done and i like it but would like to try to eliminate as much as possible some vibration...

I feel better knowing that it is normal but on the other side, i would have prefer just having the little vibration at 4500 rpm,,,,,at 6000 and above, it is something i was not ready for....some people say that after 5500 everything become perfect,,,it is why i have ask you your opinion

I have read that a problem with the trottle can make vibration,,,,just don't know what kind!!!


To Gixx1300r,,,,,,the bike is supposed to already have a TRE and tuned and the guy who sold me the Busa own a Dyno and told me 166hp at wheel,,,maybe i should check myself if the TRE is still there, i think the answer is yes because i tried the bike one time and at 300 it continue to pull, i need to get the info to know where is the TRE...

Thank you very much to have taken the time to read my message and if you have other opinions or info, i would be glad to read them

Have a good day

 

[CorrodedAlien]

two things...

bolt-on's
+
marble

 

[Spudley]

First of all, the vibration you're describing is probably gear / chain related. It's been my experience tht each chain and gear combo has a "sweet spot". This is a speed at which there's a nice compliment of load and chain / drive gear compatibility. "When" you exceed that speed, oh let's say 80 miles per hour, you start getting a vibration from the drive gear as it grabs the next link on the chain hurling it around and sending it back towards the rear gear. This is just about as basic as I can describe it.

You've got an aerodynamic factor that is starting to load the front end of the Busa with air pressure, as the motor is building horsepower to increase the mph / kph.

I have a sweet spot between 75 and 80 mph. As I increase throttle above 80mph, I develop that all typical buzz from underneath. Now mind you, I tune my throttles and don't get this vibration when I'm holding the rpm at any position while the moto is standing in neutral. "Only" when the moto is in a gear and in forward motion. As a matter of fact, the Busa is an extremely well balanced machine despite Kawi's double harmonic balancer, and any other manufacturers that do their engineering homework.

Bear in mind, that the vibration of the chain / gearing combination doesn't get exponentially greater as I increase speed. It simply becomes present as the engine is down there slapping at the next link of the chain as basic loads increase. I do believe Suzuki has designed the torque specifications to accomodate this fact.

Relax, we all have noticed this to a certain extent. I actually notice it more when I come down out of extended triple digit time (mph), as my hands and crotch relax a bit, and the vibration ceases.

Have fun, learn to ride the Busa at "all" speeds, and in "all" conditions well. She'll respond, "In kind".

 

[gex]

Hi Spudley,

Thanks a lot for the informations,,,they help me with the test i did today...and make lots of senses.

If i drive the bike in gear 6 or 5 or 4 at 180 km per hour,,,,,the vibration is there but don't remember if it is worst when trying to increase the speed,,,,where i was confused is,,,if i used the clutch the vib went away,,,,it was strange and i thought the vib was not from the motor because it would not be at 180 in any gear???

I was almost ready to try a set of new tire even if i knew that when using the clutch the vib dissapeared,,,i had no more infos for my problem......

So the gear/chain make lots of senses,,,,the only thing i am not sure to have well understand(english is not my primary language),,,,should i purchase a new gear/chain set???

I am closed to solve my problem or at least understand what is happening.....

thanks again

 

[Spudley]

Just get your current chain / gear setup adjusted to the proper range 20-30mm of flex.  Also make sure your chain is properly greased as well.  "Chain-maintenance", good stuff.  

I must digress.  After having driven home thinking about the whole vibration issue I started messing around with the magic 4600+ rpm in all gears.  I even played with it in neutral and was able to make a certain amount of the vibration occur.  After the earlier dissertation about gear verses load at rpm, I've found a quandry.  

The vibration that most of us accept as "normal" as we've become so used to it, may very well be in the clutch.  I've worked on so many over-head-cam engines that it makes no sense that our vibration comes from the cam shafts, cam-drive gears, cam chain, piston rotation, crankshaft, or other rotating components in the bottom end.  There's just no room, or tolerance engineered into engines that put out "our" kind of horsepower for that kind of vibration.  Besides the fact that it's self defeating inside an engine.  So I have to assume that the engine's operation is oblivious to the vibration "we feel".

That takes me to the drivetrain, and clutch pack.  These are secondary, unlike the oil pump, water pump, and magneto driven off the engine.  Having examined the power-chain-of-command, it appears that our "buzz-vibration" comes from the clutchpack, crankshaft drive gears.  We can quiet the vibration of the gear's interaction between the crank gear and the clutch-hub gear by pulling on the clutch lever, which depresses the clutch springs and disconnects some of the vibration felt.  As soon as we release the clutch lever, it releases the spring pressures and all we get, once again, is straight-cut drive gear vibration.  

Until I disassemble my clutch and examine, it would seem to me that all we're "really" feeling is gear-drive vibration from the cranshaft gear as it interacts with the clutch-hub gear.

That, in essence, would be my best calculated guess considering there's a varying load on the clutch-hub gear, and it basically connects the rear tire through the gearing of the transmission to the crankshaft via the clutch-hub basket and gear.

I'll bet there's a tremendous amount of torque transmitting through those two gears at times !!

BTW, one post script that comes to mind. As those two gears spin faster the lubricant, or oil stands "less" of a chance of staying on those two gears as centrifugal resultant increases (inertia). That means, those two gears go "dry" or there's not as much oil on the teeth cushioning their meshing actions. That might "also" be a part of our vibration as it works itself out to the frame where we feel it.

 

[gex]

Hi Spudley,

Probably my last question,

Does the vibration about gear/chain or transmission(clutch) at 180 km and up per hour similar to the vibration between 4500 to 5000 rpm,,,i mean,  little bizzzzz in the handle bar(not a big problem for me) or is it like a wheel unbalanced and the mirors are shaking?

Thanks a lot

 

[gex]

Hi Spudley,

Probably my last question,

Does the vibration about gear/chain or transmission(clutch) at 180 km and up per hour similar to the vibration between 4500 to 5000 rpm,,,i mean,  little bizzzzz in the handle bar(not a big problem for me) or is it like a wheel unbalanced and the mirors are shaking?

Thanks a lot

 

[Spudley]

More the buzz in the handlebar grips, "and" a bit of fuzzy rearview to top it off. I've actually come to compensate for it. Over time, you'll be less sensitive to it, and actually stop noticing it as much. Is this what you're getting ?.

 

[JuiceSC]

Does your bike still have the original chain and sprockets? I just did C&S on my 99 750, not do to stretch but it started 'popping' (audible). Had no other issues. After replacing them, the bike felt a whole lot smoother. You may just need a new chain & sprockets. I never got more than 10K miles (16k Km) out of a chain.

 

[gex]

Hi Spudley,

Sincerely, i ask if something other than a tire(like a problem with transmission) could cause a vibration which shake the mirrors and windscreen, it could help with finding the cause,, i know that a bad chain can do this,,,,,,,like i said,,,,the vibration at 4500 rpm is a little bizzzzz through the bike (not a problem) but at 180 and ++ in any gears the bar end and winshield are shaking like a front tire unbalanced and i don't like that,,,,but the tire have been check

Juice,,,,,i don't know about the chaine,,,,it is not new but it seem to be still ok....

But you know,,,,after all the informations i got,,,thanks to all of you,,,,,,it is still difficult for me to know if it is a vibration which come naturelly with the Busa,,,,,,,so, yesterday i found a guy who can sell me a set or race tire almost new at a cheap price and will put them on the bike just to know if it will make a differrence,,,,a positive one i hope,,,,,,if not,,,,,i will put a chain and sproket and cross my fingers it will solve the problem,,,,,,,if not,,,i will have to live with those vib but i am positive that there is something with chain or tires!!!

Thanks and have a good day

 

[DaCol.]

I get vibs but NOTHING that is much of a bother. And if your getting the vib at Speed (which you indicate because it stays with both down shifts and up shifts) it's more than likely NOT the engine since the vibration doesn't change. Since it happens at a certaint speed and up, check your tire and front fork alignments  (are both forks equal in the tree

). Anything off here will be exagerated the faster you go.  

 

[The Big Red One]

(gex @ Aug. 16 2007,07:14) Hi Spudley,

Sincerely, i ask if something other than a tire(like a problem with transmission) could cause a vibration which shake the mirrors and windscreen, it could help with finding the cause,, i know that a bad chain can do this,,,,,,,like i said,,,,the vibration at 4500 rpm is a little bizzzzz through the bike (not a problem)  but at 180 and ++  in any gears the bar end and winshield are shaking like a front tire unbalanced and i don't like that,,,,but the tire have been check

Juice,,,,,i don't know about the chaine,,,,it is not new but it seem to be still ok....

But you know,,,,after all the informations i got,,,thanks to all of you,,,,,,it is still difficult for me to know if it is a vibration which come naturelly with the Busa,,,,,,,so, yesterday i found a guy who can sell me a set or race tire almost new at a cheap price and will put them on the bike just to know if it will make a differrence,,,,a positive one i hope,,,,,,if not,,,,,i will put a chain and sproket and cross my fingers it will solve the problem,,,,,,,if not,,,i will have to live with those vib  but i am positive that there is something with chain or tires!!!

Thanks and have a good day

That amount of vibration is NOT normal. Somethings not right. Be SURE everything crucial is tight...front end, forks, swingarm, axles. motor mounts ect. My friend had a vibration on his bike he chased for awhile, he tried all kinds of things. It turned out to be his brand new front tire...the last thing you'd expect. It was defective, it had a rupture in the cords

He got it replaced for free and vibration all gone

 

[gex]

Hi DaCol and Big Red,

Thanks alot for the informations,

Yesterday, i recheck the chain and on my old 1992 1100 it was often worst than that and ok,,,,

I am glad that both of you mentionned it could be the tire,,,,,,i did not want to spend money for a new set,,,knowing that the two wheels are well balanced but since i am able to put a set of race tire at a very good price,,,,,it is good time to change the Pilot Road even if they are still good and if that can solve the problem,,,,it will be great,,,,if not,,,,at least i will have better tires on the Busa.....

I will check quickly about the forks and if the tires do nothing(beginning of next week),,,,i will ask a pro to check that first.....

I cross my fingers for a front tire problem  

thanks again for the infos and have a good day

 

[gex]

Just to let you know that changing the tires help a lot and the chain is not new so today i order sprokets and chain just to see if i can get another slight improvement...